Winnipeg - Of Interest

[esquire]

Originally Posted by drew

I was in downtown TO last week, and there were just as many meth-heads or otherwise intoxicated/sketchy individuals roaming the sidewalks.

The difference was, there were a lot more otherwise normal pedestrians to make up for it.

I think Winnipeg just needs to keep adding people to the downtown, and eventually "strength in numbers" will help to overcome the un-comfortableness many people have.

I completely agree. In larger cities, you also see troubled/sketchy/intoxicated people but you also feel like they are in the minority... most people walking the steets of, say, Ottawa, seem like normal folks and might help you out if you were in trouble, for example.

The problem in Winnipeg is the trendline... there have been improvements when it comes to downtown housing supply, there more people attending sports and entertainment downtown, as well as other developments such as office buildings, educational facilities, etc. bringing people downtown. Yet the streets feel arguably as menacing as they did 15 years ago, if not slightly worse... especially after dark when there's hardly anyone around except near MTS Centre on an event night.

I'm not sure if it's the recent uptick in meth I'm noticing, or something else altogether.

[drew]

Originally Posted by bomberjet

People in Winnipeg are just terrified of downtown. Most of my friends and acquaintances will not go downtown. They think living in Transcona will save them from all the troubles. Except for my few friends who go to Jets games. But then mostly it's straight back to the burbs. Quite disappointing.

That is why we need to keep adding actual downtown residents.

People that are downtown mostly because that's where they live and work.

Until they are there in significant numbers to make a visual/economic impact - we need to forget about the causal suburban visitor.

I suspect even in Toronto, downtown is mostly frequented by those who actually live in the area, versus people making the trip in form the burbs - unless - similar to Winnipeg they are downtown for entertainment purposes (sports, theatre, etc.).

[dmacc]

I believe it is important to cater to more of a mid to high end income resident for the foreseeable future. Downtown has a huge number of low income properties which caters to a demographic that people are nervous about seeing downtown in the first place. To increase the level of comfort downtown then the ratio of residence needs to come more in line with safer areas. I'm not saying poor people are dangerous, what I'm trying to convey is meth addicts and violent criminals generally don't have the income to live in higher end residences.

[ediger]

Originally Posted by dmacc

I believe it is important to cater to more of a mid to high end income resident for the foreseeable future. Downtown has a huge number of low income properties which caters to a demographic that people are nervous about seeing downtown in the first place. To increase the level of comfort downtown then the ratio of residence needs to come more in line with safer areas. I'm not saying poor people are dangerous, what I'm trying to convey is meth addicts and violent criminals generally don't have the income to live in higher end residences.

Then shouldn't we try to treat the meth heads and violent criminals instead of limiting the options for poor people?

[drew]

Originally Posted by ediger

Then shouldn't we try to treat the meth heads and violent criminals instead of limiting the options for poor people?

I think any real or tangible help with respect to social services, addiction services, mental health services etc. is no where on the horizon.

That would require $$ and lots of it.

We need to accept that the visual impact with respect to homelessness, substance abuse, etc. as a fabric of our urban landscape. What we need to do is drown out this aspect out. That requires lots more people.

[dmacc]

Originally Posted by ediger

Then shouldn't we try to treat the meth heads and violent criminals instead of limiting the options for poor people?

As was said in a previous post, TO has just as many Meth addicts and violent criminals. Meth addiction and violent crime isn't a housing issue, it's a health and legal one and should be solved in those arenas.

Downtown needs more positive residence in the downtown to level out the ratio of negative and positive people living in that area. Mid - High end housing prevents violent and meth addicts due to the cost of living being out of reach for them. It's not to say low income people aren't positive and contributing people but know drug use and violent crimes are more prevalent in those area. If you want to revitalize downtown you have to attract people who will help fun its economic growth.

[dmacc]

You've had West Broadway, Central Park and the north end and two rivers insulating the downtown with crime. Bro-Ass wasn't much better except for fort garry place and a couple other places. With a centre out approach a lot of benefit could be had in the core. Glass house, TNS, 300 Main, 185 Smith, the medical arts building(maybe), the exchange, D Condo, 300 Assiniboine, the place on St. Mary will have a huge positive impact to the vibrancy and feeling of safety in the core. Phase 2, as I call it, of rail side and a couple more vacant lots being built on with residences and you will see a major resurgence downtown to a point where the surrounding areas property values will increase enough to see a major resurgence to the area. At that point we will be able to take low income housing needs downtown into consideration.

[esquire]

Originally Posted by dmacc

You've had West Broadway, Central Park and the north end and two rivers insulating the downtown with crime. Bro-Ass wasn't much better except for fort garry place and a couple other places. With a centre out approach a lot of benefit could be had in the core. Glass house, TNS, 300 Main, 185 Smith, the medical arts building(maybe), the exchange, D Condo, 300 Assiniboine, the place on St. Mary will have a huge positive impact to the vibrancy and feeling of safety in the core. Phase 2, as I call it, of rail side and a couple more vacant lots being built on with residences and you will see a major resurgence downtown to a point where the surrounding areas property values will increase enough to see a major resurgence to the area. At that point we will be able to take low income housing needs downtown into consideration.

Not to get too nitpicky, but Bro-Ass is way different than Central Park or the North End. I used to live on Kennedy and there were numerous condos around there, and apartments with long term residents. It was a surprisingly quiet neighbourhood... whatever "incidents" there were tended to be concentrated near the Manitoba Housing tower on Assiniboine.

[oftheMoon]

Originally Posted by drew

I was in downtown TO last week, and there were just as many meth-heads or otherwise intoxicated/sketchy individuals roaming the sidewalks.

The difference was, there were a lot more otherwise normal pedestrians to make up for it.

I think Winnipeg just needs to keep adding people to the downtown, and eventually "strength in numbers" will help to overcome the un-comfortableness many people have.

That is exactly it. It's the ratio of "normal" vs 'sketchy that is not balanced. I've always said that.

[dmacc]

Originally Posted by esquire

Not to get too nitpicky, but Bro-Ass is way different than Central Park or the North End. I used to live on Kennedy and there were numerous condos around there, and apartments with long term residents. It was a surprisingly quiet neighbourhood... whatever "incidents" there were tended to be concentrated near the Manitoba Housing tower on Assiniboine.

I can't really argue that, I lived at Fort Garry place for a number of years and loved the area. It can be very dark and quiet/potentially dangerous in the evening near a couple of the towers and a couple smaller buildings in the area but nowhere near the seriousness of the other areas mentioned. Better lighting in the area likely would have changed my prospective a lot more.

[esquire]

Originally Posted by dmacc

I can't really argue that, I lived at Fort Garry place for a number of years and loved the area. It can be very dark and quiet/potentially dangerous in the evening near a couple of the towers and a couple smaller buildings in the area but nowhere near the seriousness of the other areas mentioned. Better lighting in the area likely would have changed my prospective a lot more.

Better lighting and a bit more street life. The streets around there were never menacing in my view, but they were still somewhat empty in the evenings. I get the impression that things have improved a bit with the cycle track and some new buildings that front the street, but what the area could really use are a couple storefronts that are open in the evening. There are a few new ones on Broadway that weren't there during my time, but having a couple in the area south of Broadway would make a big difference.

[dmacc]

^^^100%

[OTA in Winnipeg]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dQVb6Cd-w8s

[Curmudgeon]

The city unveiled it's 2019 budget today. Property taxes will increase by 2.33%. Unfortunately the road repair budget will decrease by nearly 26% or $30 million.

The police budget will rise by 3.8% and that for fire/paramedic 4.7% mainly to cover the cost of "salary increases", according to the City. Together they now represent about 45% of civic expenditure. The lastest CPI change year over year for January 2019 is 1.4%. This is unsustainable but no one at city hall appears to want to address it.

[esquire]

The City has really painted itself into a corner. Emergency services operating costs are unsustainable, but what do you do? Job cuts? Take the unprecedented step of pay cuts? Force them onto defined contribution pension plans? Those measures would be really hard in a city like ours that relies heavily on emergency services. Winnipeg is not exactly a peaceable kingdom where we could slash the number of cops and firefighters by 10% and not feel it somehow.

At some point the City is going to be forced to make a move, because the emergency services are slowly strangling the budget.

[blueandgoldguy]

When the fuck is the city going to get tough on expenditures for cops and the fire department. Their budgets are having a severe negative impact on other aspects of city folks' quality of life. 26% cut to road expenditures...in this city!? How bad can it get!?

I thought Mr. Bigshot Pallister stated the increase in budgets for the police and the fire department (and teachers?) were unsustainable back when he was elected. Don't ask me how he can deal with the former given it's not exactly the province's jurisdiction, but if the province can somehow influence things they should. The time for action is now.

[vid]

The emergency services budget explosion isn't unique to Winnipeg (if Thunder Bay Police didn't get their budget increase this year, we would have actually had a 3% property tax rate reduction this year; we had a 2% increase instead) but the solution to it isn't to cut their wages or reduce personnel or cut funding for capital or maintenance of whatever; the actual solution is to understand why emergency services are being needed so much (averaging 40 to 50% increases in workloads year over year for half a decade now), and solve that problem.

And the problem is complex. Certainly too complex for the governments of our provinces to ever hope to begin to understand. It's much more politically advantageous for them to simply allow the social ills that plague us to fester and constantly lay blame on municipalities to distract from their own chronic inaction on social services and health over the past few decades.

But basically, as long as we treat addiction like a crime more than a disease, and as long as we treat poverty more like a personal failure than a social failure, we're going to not only see this continue, but continue to get worse.

[Hecate]

It’s tiresome seeing the police get more and more year after year... these are some of the highest paying jobs in Canada with benefit packages that are second to none, and it’s still not enough. They are in the top 10% of Canadian wage earners. They earn more than most Canadian families do. I couldn’t imagine asking for more when so many young people and families are struggling to make ends meet. I couldn’t imagine being that fucking selfish. That fucking greedy. Oink oink. They deserve the moniker.

[Plan&Build]

Originally Posted by Hecate

It’s tiresome seeing the police get more and more year after year... these are some of the highest paying jobs in Canada with benefit packages that are second to none, and it’s still not enough. They are in the top 10% of Canadian wage earners. They earn more than most Canadian families do. I couldn’t imagine asking for more when so many young people and families are struggling to make ends meet. I couldn’t imagine being that fucking selfish. That fucking greedy. Oink oink. They deserve the moniker.

What they get is what everyone should expect to get and was normal prior to the mid seventies. This country has changed a lot since then and most of us were not protected like they were from the forces of globalization. None the less, the situation is slowly but surely coming to a head since us have-nots can no longer afford to pay enough taxes to keep these “haves” (I prefer the term “underexploiteds”) in their secure and fairly compensated jobs. C’mon, we all know what’s coming...


At some point a long lasting hiring freeze will reduce the force through retirements until the actual force will be limited to detectives and serious/weapons offence responders like SWAT. Traffic policing will be outsourced to rent-a-cops, community patrol and outreach/prevention and drug related stuff will be handled by the Bear Clan or similar vigilante groups empowered to make arrests.

[Spocket]

Originally Posted by Hecate

It’s tiresome seeing the police get more and more year after year... these are some of the highest paying jobs in Canada with benefit packages that are second to none, and it’s still not enough. They are in the top 10% of Canadian wage earners. They earn more than most Canadian families do. I couldn’t imagine asking for more when so many young people and families are struggling to make ends meet. I couldn’t imagine being that fucking selfish. That fucking greedy. Oink oink. They deserve the moniker.

They also take a lot more bullets than most Canadians do.

Reserve your judgement for when the Jets come to the trough asking for a few million. It'll happen. I've got nothing against the Jets and I'm happy they're in Winnipeg but please...the police are there to protect you by dealing with the people you won't. They're not generally corrupt and your lack of appreciation for them suggests more about you than them.