City Murder Rates

[Acajack]

Given their demographics and socio-economics, cities like San Francisco and Portland should actually have rock-bottom crime rates.

[iheartthed]

Originally Posted by Acajack

Given their demographics and socio-economics, cities like San Francisco and Portland should actually have rock-bottom crime rates.

Within the context of the U.S., they do. Heck, even within Texas, bleeding heart liberal Austin has a murder rate that is much lower than Dallas or Houston.

[badrunner]

Originally Posted by Yuri

All those notions that the US is somehow "superior" to Brazil, that public opinion up there is more "tolerant" are extremely naive. The US as a society, its judiciary, is way tougher on crime than Brazil, be it from the law enforcement or criminal legislation itself.

You're right about that part. US society and its judiciary are way tougher (and smarter) on crime than Brazil. That goes without saying. The lesson here is that you can be both tough and humane, if you're smart about it. No need for paramilitary police raids into crime-ridden neighborhoods to prove how tough on crime you are.

Originally Posted by Yuri

If Americans were subjected to the same degree of violence Brazilians are

But we're not. We're nowhere near that violent. Earlier you mentioned a police raid in Brazil that killed 25 people like it was something routine. Do you realize how bad things would have to get here for people to call for that kind of aggressive police action? It would have to be apocalyptic. Not even in the worst days of the 80s and 90s were we anywhere near that point. It's a different world. That's another reason why people find it so odd that you promote Brazilian police as a model. Do you now see how ridiculous that is?

[bossabreezes]

Originally Posted by iheartthed

Within the context of the U.S., they do. Heck, even within Texas, bleeding heart liberal Austin has a murder rate that is much lower than Dallas or Houston.

Have you been ignoring the fact that the very cities you’ve mentioned have seen unprecedented levels of violence, particularly homicide increases over the past two years? Sans San Francisco, which has ridiculous levels of property crime and is closer and closer to unlivable?

Austin’s murder rate will be double what it was last year. That’s ok? These cities are in no way “better off” because of their soft on crime approach. In fact, it is a huge quality of life issue. And it’s sad, because these cities used to be better off until this toxic mentality of impunity arrived in their government offices.

They might be “low” compared to other cities, but they are catching up fast. To ignore this is to accept ignorance and quite frankly, blindly tribalistic.

[iheartthed]

Originally Posted by bossabreezes

Have you been ignoring the fact that the very cities you’ve mentioned have seen unprecedented levels of violence, particularly homicide increases over the past two years? Sans San Francisco, which has ridiculous levels of property crime and is closer and closer to unlivable?

Austin’s murder rate will be double what it was last year. That’s ok?

They might be “low” compared to other cities, but they are catching up fast. To ignore this is to accept ignorance and quite frankly, blindly tribalistic.

We don't know any of this to be fact. We won't even know the actual murder rate in Austin until sometime next year when the FBI releases the compiled data. We also won't know how to baseline it until next year when the FBI releases data for the entire country.

[bossabreezes]

Originally Posted by iheartthed

We don't know any of this to be fact. We won't even know the actual murder rate in Austin until sometime next year when the FBI releases the compiled data. We also won't know how to baseline it until next year when the FBI releases data for the entire country.

Ignorance is bliss they say. I understand how that can be easier than actually questioning, analyzing, and solving a problem.

[iheartthed]

Originally Posted by bossabreezes

Ignorance is bliss they say. I understand how that can be easier than actually questioning, analyzing, and solving a problem.

I'm not even sure what this means. You're just engaging in baseless speculation about a theoretical "problem". You're the same one that claims New York's biggest problem is violence, while this is the safest New York City has been in modern history lol.

[bossabreezes]

Originally Posted by iheartthed

I'm not even sure what this means. You're just engaging in baseless speculation about a theoretical "problem". You're the same one that claims New York's biggest problem is violence, while this is the safest New York City has been in modern history lol.

No surprise there. It means you’re blindly trusting progressive lawmakers and ideology without even caring to ask why progressive cities, which used to have lower murder rates, are now exploding in homicide percentages. Progressives were not anti police until about two years ago.

If Austin having 73 recorded murders this year so far versus 44 in all of 2020 isn’t factual enough for you, then what is? There’s no denying that is an absurd increase. We don’t see these doubling of murder rates in traditionally violent cities, these cities are the ones once known for quality of life but are fast becoming just like the violent places they were the antithesis to. If that’s what you like and want, cool. But you’re in the minority.

[iheartthed]

Originally Posted by bossabreezes

No surprise there. It means you’re blindly trusting progressive lawmakers and ideology without even caring to ask why progressive cities, which used to have lower murder rates, are now exploding in homicide percentages. Progressives were not anti police until about two years ago.

If Austin having 73 recorded murders this year so far versus 44 in all of 2020 isn’t factual enough for you, then what is? There’s no denying that is an absurd increase. We don’t see these doubling of murder rates in traditionally violent cities, these cities are the ones once known for quality of life but are fast becoming just like the violent places they were the antithesis to. If that’s what you like and want, cool. But you’re in the minority.

A better question: why is it that not-so-progressive cities were more violent to begin with? The former police chief of Detroit is now running for governor of Michigan as a Republican. Detroit has the second or third highest murder rate in the country. That is hardly a ringing endorsement of conservatives getting better public safety results, lol.

[badrunner]

The "tough on crime" jurisdictions are seeing a spike in violent crime as well, so obviously it's not just policy. There are unique once-in-a-lifetime external factors at play here.

[bossabreezes]

Originally Posted by iheartthed

A better question: why is it that not-so-progressive cities were more violent to begin with? The former police chief of Detroit is now running for governor of Michigan as a Republican. Detroit has the second or third highest murder rate in the country. That is hardly a ringing endorsement of conservatives getting better public safety results, lol.

This is exactly the problem we face at a National issue, so thank you for making it clear. Republican doesn’t mean conservative (and vice versa). Same goes for Progressive and Democrat. Not all Republicans are bible thumpers and not all Democrats are communists who want to defund the police.

New York, while still having its issues, is not as lopsidedly progressive. That’s why crime there has been relatively stable the past two years. Same with practically every other big city with crime issues aside from formerly normal democrat run cities that became woke, like Philadelphia and Atlanta.

The worst cities saw the worst % increases and most drastic drop in quality of life were the extremely and loudly progressive ones, like Seattle, Portland, Minneapolis, Austin, ect. Progressivism is just as bad as conservatism and they are just different sides of the same coin. You don’t have to agree, but history will likely look back at progressivism as a huge reason for many inter generational problems of the future.

Originally Posted by badrunner

The "tough on crime" jurisdictions are seeing a spike in violent crime as well, so obviously it's not just policy. There are unique once-in-a-lifetime external factors at play here.

Examples? There are hardly any big cities in the country who are “tough on crime.” It doesn’t matter what state they’re in, clearly, since Austin used to be safe but probably never exactly “tough” on crime like some might consider Texas to be.

[iheartthed]

Originally Posted by bossabreezes

This is exactly the problem we face at a National issue, so thank you for making it clear. Republican doesn’t mean conservative (and vice versa). Same goes for Progressive and Democrat. Not all Republicans are bible thumpers and not all Democrats are communists who want to defund the police.

New York, while still having its issues, is not as lopsidedly progressive. That’s why crime there has been relatively stable the past two years. Same with practically every other big city with crime issues aside from formerly normal democrat run cities that became woke, like Philadelphia and Atlanta.

The worst cities saw the worst % increases and most drastic drop in quality of life. Progressivism is just as bad as conservatism and they are just different sides of the same coin. You don’t have to agree, but history will likely look back at progressivism as a huge reason for many inter generational problems of the future.

A lot of words, but not actually saying anything. Plus, you said that crime is supposedly bad in New York, which is definitely a more "progressive" city than Detroit. I'm beginning to think you don't really know what you're talking about......

[bossabreezes]

Originally Posted by iheartthed

A lot of words, but not actually saying anything. Plus, you said that crime is supposedly bad in New York, which is definitely a more progressive city than Detroit. I'm beginning to think you don't really know what you're talking about......

I said Crime was my biggest worry in New York. Crime is not as bad in New York as almost any other city but I still worry about it, because the sense of security has vastly diminished. New York is still very, very quiet compared to what it used to be, and this creates opportunity to be victim to crime on the street where it didn’t exist before because of “safety in numbers.”

You don’t agree, and that’s fine. Not sure what your biggest fear of living in New York is but it is VERY common to be worried about crime if you live in a big city. In fact, most people would agree that it’s on their mind. Don’t gaslight me, not working.

I won’t be responding to you anymore because you don’t bring any conversation, but instead say you “don’t understand” and then try and dissect any thought without providing a shred of original thought or discussion. It’s just “let’s shut this person down by trying to make them feel stupid”, which is not only immature but also extremely unproductive. That’s why a republican won in Virginia, no attempt to share thoughts but instead immediate rejection from those who think they are morally superior. Progressivism will die by its own sword because of this.

[Steely Dan]

^ would you two please take your political dip-shittery to the CE toilet.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by Steely Dan

^ would you to please take your political dip-shittery to the CE toilet.

Thankless job, innit mon ami?

[proghousehead]

New York is not still quiet. Source: Am a New Yorker and live in the East Village. It’s business as usual here and not noticeably quieter today than it was 2 years ago.

I’ll admit there are more crazies on the street today as compared with 2 years ago, but given the city experienced insane covid shit, it’s not truly surprising. It’s getting better too. Less crazies than a year ago. Ignore the hyperbole that fits the right’s narrative.

[homebucket]

Originally Posted by proghousehead

I’ll admit there are more crazies on the street today as compared with 2 years ago, but given the city experienced insane covid shit, it’s not truly surprising. It’s getting better too. Less crazies than a year ago. Ignore the hyperbole that fits the right’s narrative.

Same with SF. It's nowhere near the bombed out zombie/poop infested wasteland that outsiders think it is. Sure, there are some grittier areas where you might encounter open drug use, but I'm not sure how that is different from any other major US city? Anyone that's actually visited or lives in SF can see that it's actually remarkably pleasant.

[AviationGuy]

Originally Posted by iheartthed

Within the context of the U.S., they do. Heck, even within Texas, bleeding heart liberal Austin has a murder rate that is much lower than Dallas or Houston.

Not sure what your point is, since Dallas and Houston are liberal as well (in the cities proper). There are likely various influences at play, not just politics.

Might be better if this thread were used for reporting statistics like it used to be?

[KevinFromTexas]

Originally Posted by bossabreezes

Not sure why this turned into a Brazil bashing thread considering this has always been a thread about American or Canadian homicide rates. Also, some people here generalizing Brazil, my home country, and lumping it together with Mexico are extremely ignorant.

Anyway

Austin’s homicide rate is probably going to end 100% higher this year than last year. Defund then police failed in Minneapolis amongst a public vote, so clearly Americans do not want this violence and are ready to hold politicians and criminals responsible. You’d never know it if you only watched mainstream media, since they are extremely anti-safety and pro impunity.

Chicago is at 725 as of yesterday, 10 shy of the 2020 total of 735. No problems there though, Chicago has always been violent.

Austin didn't defund the police. Funds were moved around as certain functions of APD were moved to other city departments, such as forensics. Part of that was retribution for APD mishandling some material evidence which caused it to be contaminated and had to be discarded. Additionally, the 2021 budget for APD of $443 million was their largest budget ever - $10 million over their 2019/2020 budget.

https://austintexas.gov/page/apd-budget

August 2020
City Council Reimagining Public Safety 2021 Budget Changes

On August 13, 2020, Council approved an APD budget of approximately $290 million which reflects a budget change of $153.2 million.

The adopted budget directs that $153.2 million in police funding to be reallocated in the following ways:

Reduce & Reinvest APD funding by approximately $31.5 million – taken primarily from cadet classes and overtime – to reinvest in permanent supportive housing and services, EMS for COVID-19 response, family violence shelter and protection, violence prevention, workforce development, and a range of other programs.
Transfer a number of APD functions (and related funding of approximately $76.6 million) out of APD over the course of the fiscal year. These include Forensics Sciences, Communications/911 call center, strategic support, and internal affairs.
Create a Reimagine Safety Fund to potentially divert approximately $45.1 million from APD toward alternative forms of public safety and community support as determined through the year-long reimagining process.

-

https://www.kvue.com/article/news/po...f-ae4cf4f7ab87

Approved Austin Police Department budget for fiscal year 2021-22 more than originally proposed
The Austin City Council unanimously approved the budget for fiscal year 2021-22 on Aug. 12.

Author: Maeve Ashbrook
Published: 3:04 PM CDT August 23, 2021
Updated: 5:19 PM CDT August 23, 2021

AUSTIN, Texas — The Austin City Council approved $443,066,534 for the Austin Police Department as a part of the City’s fiscal year 2021-22 budget. The City of Austin confirmed the finalized number, which is more than what was originally proposed.

Austin City Manager Spencer Cronk presented a proposed budget for the City in July. APD was allocated $442.8 million under the proposed budget.

The over $443 million APD budget is significantly more than the funds allocated to the department during the 2020-21 fiscal year. In FY 2021, APD’s budget was $309.7 million.

-

Voters recently voted down Prop A by a 68% margin, which would have required APD to hire at least two more officers per 1,000 residents. That failed, but they did get their largest budget ever, which was their biggest gripe in the first place - being "defunded" which wasn't even what happened as has been explained.

https://www.kut.org/politics/2021-11...ds-more-police

Austin voters strongly reject Prop A, which would have required hiring hundreds more police

KUT 90.5 | By Audrey McGlinchy
Published November 2, 2021 at 8:47 PM CDT
Updated November 3, 2021 at 6:57 PM CDT

Austin voters have roundly rejected a local ballot measure that would have required the police department to hire hundreds more officers.

More than 68% of people who voted came out against Proposition A. The measure would have required the Austin Police Department to staff at least 2 officers per every 1,000 residents. Given current employment numbers, Austin would have had to hire anywhere from 300 to 700 officers over the next year, according to city estimates.

Prop A opponents argued that the cost of hiring this many officers could be devastating to the city’s budget. The City of Austin’s Budget Office estimated that Prop A could have cost the city anywhere from $54 million to about $120 million a year, for at least the first five years. (An estimate from the group behind Prop A was much lower, coming in at about $35 million a year.)

[KevinFromTexas]

I think one thing that most people can agree on is that the police cannot really stop all crime. Sure, if they're there in the moment when a crime is about to happen they'll either discourage it or stop it outright as it's happening, but for all of the other crimes in progress when the cops aren't there, there's no chance of that happening. Most of the time the cops don't show up until a crime has already happened. We choose to make excuses that criminals won't obey gun control laws, but then insist that having a cop nearby will automatically keep them from committing a crime? Give me a break.

I'll say something else, crime was already rising before 2020 here. I've been following the numbers for over a decade now and posting them here. If you don't believe me, go look at my posts of Austin's numbers. I even break it down month by month year over year.

One thing I'm noticing is more shootings involving stupid things where self defense shouldn't really be claimed in incidents where the victim didn't seem to be doing anything wrong or at least wasn't posing an immediate threat to the shooter.

Woman who shot and killed her neighbor in east Austin after he supposedly stole her bouncy house. They found his body in a wooded area near their neighborhood.
https://cbsaustin.com/news/local/apd...-4jfHoR2fycP3M

Or the guy who was stabbed in south Austin over a parking spot.
https://www.fox7austin.com/news/apd-...t-parking-spot

Or the man in Martindale (a small town in the metro) who shot a man who was sitting in his car outside his house. He said he thought the guy was suspicious for being there.
https://www.kxan.com/news/local/cald...rtindale-home/