ATLANTA | Development Thread VI

[shivtim]

Mercedes Benz Stadium update from facebook:

[scania]

Originally Posted by Verge

There may be but I have yet to meet a single one-- and I know a lot of Atlantans-- And yes if expecting good urbanism is a way of looking at things, you are correct. BTW which part of Fuqua's tin pot empire do you work in?

Dude, do you not read? I've never said that I personally like Fuqua's projects. My statement was to look at the big picture, and not be so small minded. Everyone doesn't think like a lot of us do this board. There are a lot of people who support the businesses in Midtown, Buckhead, etc. who could careless about how urban something is, being that they live in the suburbs. This idea that everyone in Atlanta wants urbanism, is simply untrue. That's another reason why I was baffled that there are people so simple minded with not supporting the braves because they moved to Cobb County. I'm like do you not realize if it wasn't for the support of our suburbs, 80% of the businesses in Midtown alone would not flourish.

[shivtim]

One Atlanta Plaza (950 East Paces Ferry Road) in Buckhead filed to do facade work as part of "The Atlanta Repositioning project." Anyone know what they're planning for this skyscraper?

[Ant131531]

Originally Posted by Sura

If this is the case then when can we expect groundbreaking? That's the first time they've mentioned that, right?

They've been saying October of this year.

[montydawg]

Originally Posted by scania

Dude, do you not read? I've never said that I personally like Fuqua's projects.

Scania, I generally agree with you, however, I think the Cobb Braves missed a big opportunity in not locating their facility next to transit, but perhaps the GM site in Doraville would have been too close (and hence competition) to the Gwinnett Braves. Perhaps that is more of a regional transit issue and not the Braves' issue. (another discussion all together)

I think Fuqua's developments serve it's purpose (I don't love them either), and nearly everyone I know who lives on the East side uses his developments to buy groceries and other goods. These developments will be tore down and a higher quality development will be built there, when the time is right. Murder Kroger is a great example, but we are seeing large scale shopping centers in Buckhead being redeveloped. I think it is good to preserve these large lots for future large projects, and not sub-divide into townhomes or other smaller lots, which would really reduce the possibility of future density in the future.

The biggest Fuqua crime I've seen is the Glenwood Kroger, with the drive through Chic Fl A, and the billboard in the back. I hate the fact that American Deli puts illegal signs all over the neighborhood- how trashy. This does not fit the surrounding neighborhood or beltline at all, even though Krobar is awesome.

[Dettmann1]

Originally Posted by scania

Dude, do you not read? I've never said that I personally like Fuqua's projects. My statement was to look at the big picture, and not be so small minded. Everyone doesn't think like a lot of us do this board. There are a lot of people who support the businesses in Midtown, Buckhead, etc. who could careless about how urban something is, being that they live in the suburbs. This idea that everyone in Atlanta wants urbanism, is simply untrue. That's another reason why I was baffled that there are people so simple minded with not supporting the braves because they moved to Cobb County. I'm like do you not realize if it wasn't for the support of our suburbs, 80% of the businesses in Midtown alone would not flourish.

Scania - Definitely on point. I love urban development as much as most people on here, but I also come at it from a realistic perspective. Its great, but it doesn't work for every location and developer. Based on most peoples responses on this thread, its clear that a bunch don't work with developers and tenants on a daily basis given the rather steep demands/expectations people want them to follow (This may hurt some people's feelings, but I don't tend to view planners or reviewers as within that group, sorry). At the end of the day, developers, tenants, landowners all out to make a deal that works in their mind towards their goal of a profit. Quite a bit of the time, that hesitance towards urban design because its only really come back into vogue in the last 10 years in a majority of the US, much less than that in true full force. That's hard for Retailer A to look at and make a determination on how that affects their bottom line. That's why even places like Chicago, New York, Boston, LA will have developments in an urban environment that look "suburban". Its the best urban design that a developer could get a retailer to sign up for at the end of the day. Is it perfect, no. But in order to get a development done, that's what they had to do for better or worse.

Take 17th street and Northside. There is no way you are getting a retailer to sign up for a true urban development at that corner. You have two large roads intersecting and very little foot traffic. The best hope for something "urban" would have been apartments, but when you look at all of the new apartment builds within 2 miles of that location, they probably balked at going in on a development on that site. Condo's are also a no-go since that location isn't good enough to produce a profit on a condo project, so then you are left with townhomes and retail. As mentioned before, retail isn't signing onto an urban footprint at that location without high pedestrian numbers, so that gets you to what is shown. Could they make tweaks to make it more urban, sure and they probably will to meet the city's requirements. However some wholesale change isn't happening at that location, you can't make it work from a numbers perspective.

[scania]

Originally Posted by montydawg

Scania, I generally agree with you, however, I think the Cobb Braves missed a big opportunity in not locating their facility next to transit, but perhaps the GM site in Doraville would have been too close (and hence competition) to the Gwinnett Braves. Perhaps that is more of a regional transit issue and not the Braves' issue. (another discussion all together)

Oh I agree, I'm not saying it was the best location...but for people to say they will no longer support them is absurd and small minded, IMO. As a sports fan, that attends the games, I've always felt that the Braves, especially on the weekends had the most out of state fans (Alabama, Tennessee, SC) coming to the games. Where are the Falcons and Hawks, seemed to have very few driving in from other states.

[Verge]

Originally Posted by scania

Dude, do you not read? I've never said that I personally like Fuqua's projects. My statement was to look at the big picture, and not be so small minded. Everyone doesn't think like a lot of us do this board. There are a lot of people who support the businesses in Midtown, Buckhead, etc. who could careless about how urban something is, being that they live in the suburbs. This idea that everyone in Atlanta wants urbanism, is simply untrue. That's another reason why I was baffled that there are people so simple minded with not supporting the braves because they moved to Cobb County. I'm like do you not realize if it wasn't for the support of our suburbs, 80% of the businesses in Midtown alone would not flourish.

As a design professional perhaps I don't really give a damn what they think-- I don't go to the public for health care I go to a health care professional, and I don't go to the public for advice about how to build a city either. BTW I grew up in the suburbs-- couldn't wait to get away. As far as the city proper is concerned-- why do the opinions of suburbanites count anyway-- they don't live here, do they? No everyone doesn't want urbanism, or more importantly even know what it is, but why should that matter to anyone seeking to make a better place.

It is incumbent on those that care to lead, not to bend to the non-opinions of everyone else. Just look around out there in suburbia and tell me its a great place to live, that its not ugly, grossly inefficient and environmentally and socially unsustainable. If you can more power to you-- advocate for suburbia, we'll see how far you get with anyone that plans cities for a living... And by the way, don't all those sububanites just love urban places like New York, Paris or London?

[1lifealex]

Originally Posted by nature's calling

Kroger has bought the 17th & Northside property

It looks like the Fuqua project will indeed be a reality. I'm not surprised.

There has been one piece of heavy equipment on the site for nearly a week now and yesterday morning I noticed a team of guys on the site as well

[foxmccleod]

Originally Posted by shivtim

One Atlanta Plaza (950 East Paces Ferry Road) in Buckhead filed to do facade work as part of "The Atlanta Repositioning project." Anyone know what they're planning for this skyscraper?

It is a lobby redesign.

[arjay57]

Originally Posted by shivtim

One Atlanta Plaza (950 East Paces Ferry Road) in Buckhead filed to do facade work as part of "The Atlanta Repositioning project." Anyone know what they're planning for this skyscraper?

Interesting. I hope they can improve access to the MARTA station at street level. That bridge is not terribly inviting.

When they finish the Complete Street project on East Paces Ferry this could become a very attractive and urban area.

[Atlriser]

Those of you arguing with logical points and coming at Fuqua from a realistic business perspective are wasting your time. The idealist on here who think they are the only ones who live in the city and know what everyone wants can't handle or deal in numbers and facts. They just deal in opinion and wishes and will chew you out if you dare say anything that contradicts their view points. They arent capable of understanding or compromise so dont waste your time even attempting to discuss with them. As you see, like it or not Fuqua gets things built where as you idealist sit and spin with nothing but venom and foam of the mouth. Go ahead attack please truth sucks doesnt it!

A realist can take ideas of others and work toward a greater common goal for all and actually accomplish something. An idealist just spews what they want but does nothing to move the needle toward the actual goal. Most on here are whiny idealsit instead of people who actually try and work toward moving the city toward common goals for benefits of all citizens and not just make eveyrthing one neighborhood versus another or city versus suburb or county versus county. The board boils down to childish castles in the sky constantly! One day it is to much parking then the next day it is big box retail then it is oh no i'd rather have a vacant lot or leave a surface parking lot then another Kroger. Funny thing though they keep building more and more dense. The population keeps increasing. Stores keep building. The numbers work and the people want it; or the stores wouldn't be built and the highrise apts and parking decks and so on. I dont 100% support any of the proposoals but for things to be built the $ has to work first and foremost. Then you work to improve and reach a common goal for all which is what developers do. They spend lots and lots of time meeting with neighborhoods and redoing designs trying to reach a consensus that benefits every person even if just a little and not just one group.

It amazes me how people speak on here as if they are THE AUTHORITY of all citizens of the city. You dont speak for me or anyone I know and I've been a citizen a long time in this city. My voice is just as equal as yours so stop with the ALL BULLSHIT and thinking your ideals are the only ones worth being discussed. Stop your damn whining and discuss development news with logic. You pick battles where you can make a difference and move the needle toward your goal not just blast any and everything you dont like. That makes you look ignorant to the 99% of the population that does give a crap and does try on a daily basis to make the world more livable. You dont ever get 100% of what you want and thank god thats the truth because the rest of us wouldn't like it or you. Sorry but a lot of yall need to grow up and start learning how to hold an educated discussion on a subject instead of being whiny brats. Now please go ahead and attack once again the truth hurts when you here it, right!??!

Im not here to be your damn photographer or to bring you what new building is being built on 10th because #1 when im driving im working not snapping pics and #2 my job is construction and post construction closeout/financing mainly not predevelopment or preconstruction activities and the boards i serve on as a citizen revolve around transportation. I come here for knowledge and news just like everyone else. Im here to learn, discuss, educate myself and others from a point of logic and reality that few on here seem to be capable of possessing.

I appreciate each photo provided, each new development announced and all the educated comments and feedback. I try to take it all in and even when my personal opinion is different, it is my duty to report transportation items back that are relavent on the community boards I serve. I am sick of the pissy whiny crap and pie in the sky all or nothing mentallity of some. I can be just as snarky with those who think they are the know it alls and the ultimate deciders of everything, but guess what.....YOU AREN'T!

[1lifealex]

Originally Posted by nature's calling

Ahhhhhhhh Opus looks amazing I'm SHOOK. Omg

According to them they will start construction in November and will Finance it without any presales

[Verge]

Originally Posted by Atlriser

Those of you arguing with logical points and coming at Fuqua from a realistic business perspective are wasting your time. The idealist on here who think they are the only ones who live in the city and know what everyone wants can't handle or deal in numbers and facts. They just deal in opinion and wishes and will chew you out if you dare say anything that contradicts their view points. They arent capable of understanding or compromise so dont waste your time even attempting to discuss with them. As you see, like it or not Fuqua gets things built where as you idealist sit and spin with nothing but venom and foam of the mouth. Go ahead attack please truth sucks doesnt it!

A realist can take ideas of others and work toward a greater common goal for all and actually accomplish something. An idealist just spews what they want but does nothing to move the needle toward the actual goal. Most on here are whiny idealsit instead of people who actually try and work toward moving the city toward common goals for benefits of all citizens and not just make eveyrthing one neighborhood versus another or city versus suburb or county versus county. The board boils down to childish castles in the sky constantly! One day it is to much parking then the next day it is big box retail then it is oh no i'd rather have a vacant lot or leave a surface parking lot then another Kroger. Funny thing though they keep building denser and denser. The population keeps increasing. Stores keep building. The numbers work and the peopke want it, or the stores wouldn't be built and the highrise apts and parking decks and so on. I dont 100% support any of the proposoals but for things to be built the $ has to work first and foremost. Then you work to improve and reach a common goal for all which is what developers do. They spend lots and lots of time meeting with neighborhoods and redoing designs trying to reach a consensus that benefits every person even if just a little and not just one group.

It amazes me how people speak on here as if they are THE AUTHORITY of all citizens of the city. You dont speak for me or anyone I know and I've been a citizen a long time in this city. My voice is just as equal as yours so stop with the ALL BULLSHIT and thinking your ideals are the only ones worth being discussed. Stop your damn whining and discuss development news with logic. You pick battles where you can make a difference and move the needle toward your goal not just blast any and everything you dont like. That makes you look ignorant to the 99% of the population that does give a crap and does try on a daily basis to make the world more livable. You dont ever get 100% of what you want and thank god thats the truth because the rest of us wouldn't like it or you. Sorry but a lot of yall need to grow up and start learning how to hold an educated discussion on a subject instead of being whiny brats. Now please go ahead and attack once again the truth hurts when you here it right!!!

A Fuqua defender-- there are at least two! I am not whining but very busy producing good projects for good clients who get it. Projects that that meet all of the myriad criteria you may find nearly impossible to satisfy-- urban, financial and aesthetic. There are a lot of developers who understand that building good cities is the right thing to do-- Both for the place they live and for their bottom line. So what are you doing now other than spending a lot of time on this message board?

There's a reason we have a planning department-- cities are public entities that work for the collective good. There are many ways to determine city form-- Zoning, Review Boards, etc. And there are a lot of dedicated, educated, professional folks that do care about the place we all live, as do I. I will continue to work hard and long to make Atlanta a better place.

BTW, I don't really understand much of the rant above (it's a bit chaotic), so forgive me if we are actually in agreement about something.

[Atlriser]

Originally Posted by Verge

A Fuqua defender-- there are at least two! I am not whining but very busy producing good projects for good clients who get it. Projects that that meet all of the myriad criteria you may find nearly impossible to satisfy-- urban, financial and aesthetic. There are a lot of developers who understand that building good cities is the right thing to do-- Both for the place they live and for their bottom line. So what are you doing now other than spending a lot of time on this message board?

There's a reason we have a planning department-- cities are public entities that work for the collective good. There are many ways to determine city form-- Zoning, Review Boards, etc. And there are a lot of dedicated, educated, professional folks that do care about the place we all live, as do I. I will continue to work hard and long to make Atlanta a better place.

BTW, I don't really understand much of the rant above (it's a bit chaotic), so forgive me if we are actually in agreement about something.

Thanks, you have no idea what I support so you just showed your ignorance and made my point! I fought Glenwood tooth and nail and dislike most if not all of his proposals personally. Your like of comprehension speaks for itself sense you want to go punch for punch with me instead of stopping the bullshit banter.

BTW, your planning departments approved everything built, as you say its a process for the greater good, so whats your point again? Just to argue and be snarky. Even if I did support Fuqua which I do not, it still does not make my opinion less worthy or less meaningful as yours as I am a citizen and have the same vote and say as you do. Respect others opinions and discuss not just blast what you do not agree.

[jsvh]

Originally Posted by Street Advocate

Anyone have details for what/when this "phase II lofts at reynoldstown" is?



http://www.bizjournals.com/atlanta/news/...icials-seek-more-affordable-housing.html

I believe this is the second phase of the "Lofts at Reynoldstown Crossing" located at Memorial Dr and Chester / Beltline: http://uli.org/wp-content/uploads/ULI-Documents/LoftsatReynoldstown_in-layout_FINAL.pdf

Originally Posted by scania

Dude, do you not read? I've never said that I personally like Fuqua's projects. My statement was to look at the big picture, and not be so small minded. Everyone doesn't think like a lot of us do this board. There are a lot of people who support the businesses in Midtown, Buckhead, etc. who could careless about how urban something is, being that they live in the suburbs. This idea that everyone in Atlanta wants urbanism, is simply untrue. That's another reason why I was baffled that there are people so simple minded with not supporting the braves because they moved to Cobb County. I'm like do you not realize if it wasn't for the support of our suburbs, 80% of the businesses in Midtown alone would not flourish.

The city of Atlanta spent the last 50+ years trying to cater to suburbanites. We demolished entire neighborhoods to build stadiums surrounded by surface parking. We destroyed neighborhoods to build wide highways. Our zoning laws limited density and required lots of parking. Those actions did a lot of damage to Atlanta, and it is time to reverse those and offer great urban lifestyle options that many want.

The Braves attendance in Cobb is far below their hopes of 3 million this year. They might even end up joining the lame duck years at Turner as the lowest attendance since 1990. Meanwhile Atlanta United is selling out every game in Midtown (and soon, hopefully, downtown). So that is hardly evidence that the demand is for everything to be designed around suburbanites.

If Atlanta had barriers that prevented the expansion of suburbs like Hong Kong or Singapore it would still be fine. The suburbs are much more dependent on the city than the other way around. And no one is saying we need to force suburbanites onto trains and into high rises. But we should be offering great versions of both suburban and urban lifestyle options in metro Atlanta. Let the suburbs be suburbs and build wide roads and strip malls if they want. But in the city, especially inside of and near the Beltline, we need to really focus on walking biking and transit just as much as cars. We need to get rid of rules that require parking and limit density. We need to get rid of the suburban street design and zoning rules that encourage (and even require) these Fuqua strip malls there.

[Verge]

Originally Posted by Atlriser

Thanks, you have no idea what I support so you just showed your ignorance and made my point! I fought Glenwood tooth and nail and dislike most if not all of his proposals personally. Your like of comprehension speaks for itself sense you want to go punch for punch with me instead of stopping the bullshit banter.

BTW, your planning departments approved everything built, as you say its a process for the greater good, so whats your point again? Just to argue and be snarky. Even if I did support Fuqua which I do not, it still does not make my opinion less worthy or less meaningful as yours as I am a citizen and have the same vote and say as you do. Respect others opinions and discuss not just blast what you do not agree.

Your opinion is definitely equal to all the others here-- I have no idea who you are, what you really believe, and have less than zero desire to go 'punch for punch' with you, whatever that means. Glad you are an upstanding citizen with a worthy opinion. What are you doing to make the city better other than boldly challenging people on this thread?

BTW I don't own the planning department--We all do-- unless you don't live in the city. They gave Fuqua his way because a few uninformed neighbors refused to allow the underlying zoning to be changed (a lack of understanding of the whole process). This was of course the pre-Tim Keane planning department as well.

[Ant131531]

Originally Posted by jsvh

I believe this is the second phase of the "Lofts at Reynoldstown Crossing" located at Memorial Dr and Chester / Beltline: http://uli.org/wp-content/uploads/ULI-Documents/LoftsatReynoldstown_in-layout_FINAL.pdf




The city of Atlanta spent the last 50+ years trying to cater to suburbanites. We demolished entire neighborhoods to build stadiums surrounded by surface parking. We destroyed neighborhoods to build wide highways. Our zoning laws limited density and required lots of parking. Those actions did a lot of damage to Atlanta, and it is time to reverse those and offer great urban lifestyle options that many want.

The Braves attendance in Cobb is far below their hopes of 3 million this year. They might even end up joining the lame duck years at Turner as the lowest attendance since 1990. Meanwhile Atlanta United is selling out every game in Midtown (and soon, hopefully, downtown). So that is hardly evidence that the demand is for everything to be designed around suburbanites.

If Atlanta had barriers that prevented the expansion of suburbs like Hong Kong or Singapore it would still be fine. The suburbs are much more dependent on the city than the other way around. And no one is saying we need to force suburbanites onto trains and into high rises. But we should be offering great versions of both suburban and urban lifestyle options in metro Atlanta. Let the suburbs be suburbs and build wide roads and strip malls if they want. But in the city, especially inside of and near the Beltline, we need to really focus on walking biking and transit just as much as cars. We need to get rid of rules that require parking and limit density. We need to get rid of the suburban street design and zoning rules that encourage (and even require) these Fuqua strip malls there.

Love this post. Tired of Atlanta catering to "suburbanites". Give me a break.

[ATL_J]

Originally Posted by Street Advocate

Anyone have details for what/when this "phase II lofts at reynoldstown" is?



http://www.bizjournals.com/atlanta/news/...icials-seek-more-affordable-housing.html

Here you go:

BeltLine officials are seeking proposals to add more affordable housing along the Eastside Trail and Atlanta's rapidly changing Memorial Drive.

Atlanta BeltLine Inc. issued an RFP to develop 1.8 acres along Memorial and Chester Avenue, the second phase of the Lofts at Reynoldstown Crossing.

"The primary goal of the development will be multifamily affordable housing, with 40 percent of units or more designated as affordable workforce homes," according to Atlanta BeltLine Inc.

Atlanta officials have tried to balance all the new investment and development along the Beltline with the need to maintain an adequate stock of affordable housing. "Memorial Drive in the Reynoldstown and Cabbagetown neighborhoods in Atlanta [are] undergoing a transf ormation," BeltLine officials say in the RFP.

As a result, pricing for new and existing housing near the Beltline has soared. That's good for the city, but it also creates a challenge. The Beltline, a sweeping redevelopment of the 22-mile railroad corridor circling downtown and connecting many neighborhoods, was also meant to to help ease cost-of-living pressures for intown residents who wanted to walk, bike or take transit to work.

Atlanta officials including Mayor Kasim Reed have expressed concern about affordable housing, as more investment pours into residential and mixed-use projects along the Beltine.

The Lofts at Reynoldstown was one of the first projects to address the need for affordable units. In 2011, Atlanta Beltline Inc. purchased the project out of receivership and completed the development of 29 condominiums. As of 2012, almost every one of the units were sold as workforce housing to families earning less than $69,000, according to Atlanta BeltLine.

The project's next phase could feature units renting in the range of $800 for one bedrooms and possibly $950 to $1,000 for a family seeking larger units.

Earlier this year, Atlanta became eligible for millions in private dollars to help maintain affordable housing for some rapidly gentrifying intown neighborhoods along the Beltline. Atlanta was one of six cities to win funding from a $90 million program known as the Strong, Prosperous and Resilient Communities Challenge, or SPARCC.

[Street Advocate]

Man people on these boards with an anything is better than nothing attitude would be completely overwhelmed in other cities, whether in person, at their town halls, or on forums like this. Such is the battle of living in Atlanta. Even many that consider themselves liberal in the sense of city planning are far from it. This is something I've noticed all over Atlanta, not just on the forums. That it's often difficult to find organized groups of true progressives, yet alone individuals of a similar progressive mentality.

FWIW, arguing "people on the east side of atlanta use fuqua's developments!" is trash because people would use any grocery store nearby if there was one. Just like midtown promenade. Sure it was built and it was used, but it would have been a lot better if they developed it appropriately the first time around instead of dealing with decade+ leases that prolong redevelopment of a massive amount of underutilized land.