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  #3221  
Old Posted Sep 27, 2014, 3:54 AM
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There is no city in the country of comparable size that comes close to London for traffic.......it's not even a competition.

What my friend said above is true but originally the 401 was suppose to be not an urban freeway but one that was closer to the city. It was originally intended to about 3km north of where it is now which would have made it a very good urban route and yet would not have ruined the city as, at the time, that was still just country land. If look on a map the original 1950s plan was for it to run near Commissioners Road and actually head onto Toronto being slightly north of Ingersol as opposed to be slightly south of the town.

St.Thomas bitched because it was going to be too far and so the "compromised" on the current route. The 402 was suppose to be a northern by-pass and was never intended on stopping at London but continuing further east to hook up at the 403 at Woodstock essentially meaning going from Sarnia to Toronto didn't require taking the 401. It would have given Londoners a huge benefit but alas the wealthy area of North London, headed by the Labatt family, protested, cashed in some political chips and voila.......the route you have today.

London is an older city and a wealthy one with beautiful downtown neighbourhoods so there has always been a backlash against not so much the idea of a freeway but exactly where to put it with demolishing a whole neighbourhood. London is also at the Fork of the Thames and one of Canada's busiest railway junctions so the city is crisscrossed by river valleys and railway tracks much like Winnipeg.

London is impossible to get around but conversely it didn't have any wholesale slaughter of inner city neighbourhoods and hence the city is continuous as opposed to being divided by wide freeways like Kitchener.
     
     
  #3222  
Old Posted Sep 27, 2014, 8:14 PM
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Kingston had quite the urban freeway network planned back in the immediate postwar era.

In the 1950s/1960s planners thought Kingston would grow much faster than it did (the official projections of that era thought Kingston would be a city of 300k-400k by the year 2000) and so planned three urban freeways, one of which was half-built, one did not and is sort of making a comeback, and another that has long been dead and always will be.

Here's a map:


Red is the prewar city--the darker segment of the red is the downtown core. Yellow is the existing postwar suburbia, and purple are the suburban growth lands for the next 20 years or so.

The Black line is Sir John A. Macdonald Boulevard. This is an urban boulevard. It is 4 lanes wide with a grass median, and is isolated from its surroundings for the most part. It only has 11 entrances (9 of which have traffic lights) and there's no properties fronting it. It was originally supposed to be upgraded to a completely controlled access urban freeway with 6 interchanges but that never happened and it probably never will.

The Green line is the Frontenac Expressway. It is a very approximate route. I don't think it ever had a fully defined ROW, it was just a concept. It only survived for a few years in planning documents and never even came close to being built. It would have hugged the waterfront through the core, followed King Street to the suburbs, then circled around through them and then meeting up with Highway 401 at the Gardiners/38 interchange. Its dead, dead, dead and was never really alive to begin with. It would have an absolute disaster for the core and the central neighbourhoods, so I'm very glad it was never built.

The blue line is the Wellington Expressway. It follows an old railway corridor out to Highway 10/Division Street and then follows that route to the 401. At one point I believe it was planned to continue north of the city all the way to Ottawa as the Ottawa-401 freeway link, back when they wanted to merge it into the 401 around Kingston (that died in the 1960s when the easterly route at Prescott was chosen instead). The corridor is still reserved, and since the 1970s the city has planned an urban arterial along most of the route (not quite as far as the 401) and in recent years its been pushed aggressively by a lot of suburban interests. Downtown residents are against it. We'll see if it happens. My bet is that it will, but scaled back significantly and only as a 2 lane road. I'd like for it to be reserved as a future railway corridor to let a future HSR have a downtown Kingston station, but that's very unlikely.
     
     
  #3223  
Old Posted Sep 27, 2014, 8:34 PM
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are there any plans for the prison lands in Kingston? Its just a prison and a bunch of fields in the middle of town, it would be a great spot for a form of new urbanist growth for the city to avoid expanding its borders.
     
     
  #3224  
Old Posted Sep 27, 2014, 9:58 PM
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Sort of yes, sort of no. The farm lands around the prison have been vacant ever since the government shut down the prison farm. The federal government has yet to declare it surplus (although they are expected to do so in the next few years). A lot of people in Kingston were very upset over the shutdown of the prison farm and there's political pressure on the government to revive it. If the lands are surplused, there's a lot of people here in Kingston who'd like to see it become a giant community vegetable garden. But in reality, if it is surplused, it's almost certainly going to become urban development.

Those purple areas are enough for at least 20 years of growth. If the prison lands were made available Kingston could go 50 years or more without having to add any new purple to that map. Most of the population growth in Kingston is associated with Queen's University (both new students and new staff) whose enrollment is increasing rapidly, which is causing a lot of the growth to be concentrated in the core instead of the edges. If you count students as part of the city's population (which StatsCan doesn't but the city does as of an OMB ruling last year), then the majority of growth is within the prewar city.

Those prison lands would make a great urbanist community. The Express bus system will have routes along both the northern and southern edges of it (Bath Road & Front Road) and if laid out in a grid pattern almost the entire area would be an easy enough walk to them. But as of yet, there's no real plans.
     
     
  #3225  
Old Posted Sep 27, 2014, 10:42 PM
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Originally Posted by haljackey View Post
We ain't got nothin compared to Waterloo Region, but at least we got more going on than Winnipeg!
As a Winnipegger, rest assured that I'm the first to agree that my home city has a serious lack of high-speed arterials.

Nevertheless, I think you're overstating the situation to say that you've got more going on than Winnipeg. Winnipeg has more high-speed corridors, interchanges (even if still pathetically few) and over/underpasses than does London with more both planned and in the pipeline with a reasonable chance of construction within ten years.

I'm not counting works going on around either city but simply what's in it. Seems Winnipeg is definitely winning this round.
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  #3226  
Old Posted Sep 28, 2014, 9:19 AM
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I also love the GEW from Pitt Meadows/Maple Ridge to Langley.
the only thing I don't like about it is that I feel it should have a proper interchange connection at the very end, and also the soon to be built connector to the SFPR should be free-flow also.
The only other issue I have is that the speed limits are ridiculous.
     
     
  #3227  
Old Posted Sep 28, 2014, 12:21 PM
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Yeah the speed limits are amazing low for the design of the road. The entire stretch could easily be 90 (or at least 80).

The SFPR connector being built is really disappointing, especially regarding how scaled down it is from the original design.
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  #3228  
Old Posted Sep 30, 2014, 10:45 PM
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Going back a little to where we were talking about the most urban highway in Canada. Here's a couple new pics making a case for the Gardiner



http://urbantoronto.ca/forum/showthread....0-130-Harbour-Tridel-65s-Wallman)/page96

That hole in the ground is going to be this . Gardiner getting even more badass.

http://urbantoronto.ca/sites/default/fil...rojects/4034/urbantoronto-4034-11909.jpg
     
     
  #3229  
Old Posted Oct 1, 2014, 1:38 AM
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Good to know that I'm not the only person on this forum who actually likes the Gardiner. I'm gonna miss the York/Yonge/Bay ramp.
     
     
  #3230  
Old Posted Oct 1, 2014, 4:35 PM
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The Gardiner is fantastic to drive at about 2 in the morning, other than that I avoid it like the plague.
     
     
  #3231  
Old Posted Oct 2, 2014, 5:06 PM
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Are the structural problems with the Gardiner mostly with the deck/surface or do they include the pillars as well? Since simply redecking it might be the cheapest, most reasonable option.

If traffic is an issue, maybe implement HOV requirements on the Gardiner and DVP?
     
     
  #3232  
Old Posted Oct 2, 2014, 6:05 PM
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The Gardiners support beams largely need surface concrete work, structurally they are fine. It is indeed the road deck that needs major work and the city will actually be straight up replacing the bridge decks over the coming years as part of the $500 million repair job on the highway.
     
     
  #3233  
Old Posted Oct 3, 2014, 6:20 PM
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So news came out yesterday that funding from the Alberta Government is there and all contracts signed to complete the twining of Highway 63 from Edmonton to Fort McMurray by 2016. Now if we can just get the feds to twin the highway through Jasper National Park, that would complete all twinning of major highways in the province.
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  #3234  
Old Posted Oct 3, 2014, 6:34 PM
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Originally Posted by big W View Post
So news came out yesterday that funding from the Alberta Government is there and all contracts signed to complete the twining of Highway 63 from Edmonton to Fort McMurray by 2016. Now if we can just get the feds to twin the highway through Jasper National Park, that would complete all twinning of major highways in the province.
Next step would be upgrading those highways to freeways and widening the QE2 to 6 lanes.
     
     
  #3235  
Old Posted Oct 3, 2014, 6:38 PM
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Originally Posted by Innsertnamehere View Post
The Gardiners support beams largely need surface concrete work, structurally they are fine. It is indeed the road deck that needs major work and the city will actually be straight up replacing the bridge decks over the coming years as part of the $500 million repair job on the highway.
That would make most sense then. Maybe only reconstruct them 4 lanes wide to allow for wider shoulders?

Also I think HOV restrictions should be placed on the Gardiner and DVP to improve traffic flow (so that they are actually moving at 90 km/h, not stopped). Given the traffic volumes, HOV-3 or HOV-4 would likely be necessary during peak periods, HOV-2 at other times.
     
     
  #3236  
Old Posted Oct 4, 2014, 11:56 PM
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Interesting to note that since the speed limit was upped to 120 km/hr from 110 km/hr on BC-5 (Coquihalla) the 85th percentile speed prior to the change-over was 127 km/hr.

Since the change-over the 85th percentile speed has been 126 km/hr.

http://www.cfjctv.com/story.php?id=21383
     
     
  #3237  
Old Posted Oct 5, 2014, 3:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1overcosc View Post
Kingston had quite the urban freeway network planned back in the immediate postwar era.

In the 1950s/1960s planners thought Kingston would grow much faster than it did (the official projections of that era thought Kingston would be a city of 300k-400k by the year 2000) and so planned three urban freeways, one of which was half-built, one did not and is sort of making a comeback, and another that has long been dead and always will be.

Here's a map:


Red is the prewar city--the darker segment of the red is the downtown core. Yellow is the existing postwar suburbia, and purple are the suburban growth lands for the next 20 years or so.

The Black line is Sir John A. Macdonald Boulevard. This is an urban boulevard. It is 4 lanes wide with a grass median, and is isolated from its surroundings for the most part. It only has 11 entrances (9 of which have traffic lights) and there's no properties fronting it. It was originally supposed to be upgraded to a completely controlled access urban freeway with 6 interchanges but that never happened and it probably never will.

The Green line is the Frontenac Expressway. It is a very approximate route. I don't think it ever had a fully defined ROW, it was just a concept. It only survived for a few years in planning documents and never even came close to being built. It would have hugged the waterfront through the core, followed King Street to the suburbs, then circled around through them and then meeting up with Highway 401 at the Gardiners/38 interchange. Its dead, dead, dead and was never really alive to begin with. It would have an absolute disaster for the core and the central neighbourhoods, so I'm very glad it was never built.

The blue line is the Wellington Expressway. It follows an old railway corridor out to Highway 10/Division Street and then follows that route to the 401. At one point I believe it was planned to continue north of the city all the way to Ottawa as the Ottawa-401 freeway link, back when they wanted to merge it into the 401 around Kingston (that died in the 1960s when the easterly route at Prescott was chosen instead). The corridor is still reserved, and since the 1970s the city has planned an urban arterial along most of the route (not quite as far as the 401) and in recent years its been pushed aggressively by a lot of suburban interests. Downtown residents are against it. We'll see if it happens. My bet is that it will, but scaled back significantly and only as a 2 lane road. I'd like for it to be reserved as a future railway corridor to let a future HSR have a downtown Kingston station, but that's very unlikely.
There was another plan from the 1970s I've seen that involved building an expressway from the corner of Bath and Princess eastward, just north of Concession Street, crossing the river and then joining Highway 2 at Barriefield. This would have involved demolishing a large number of houses in the Kingscourt neighbourhood. Only a small part of the corridor was ever built, and today forms the westbound segment of Concession Street west of Leroy Grant Drive; it has ROW wide enough for six lanes.
     
     
  #3238  
Old Posted Oct 6, 2014, 3:34 PM
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Originally Posted by manny_santos View Post
There was another plan from the 1970s I've seen that involved building an expressway from the corner of Bath and Princess eastward, just north of Concession Street, crossing the river and then joining Highway 2 at Barriefield. This would have involved demolishing a large number of houses in the Kingscourt neighbourhood. Only a small part of the corridor was ever built, and today forms the westbound segment of Concession Street west of Leroy Grant Drive; it has ROW wide enough for six lanes.
Now that's one I've never heard of! Yikes, that one would have been messy.
     
     
  #3239  
Old Posted Oct 8, 2014, 3:35 AM
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Video of Hwy 11 in Ontario north of Barrie to north of Orillia:
Video Link
     
     
  #3240  
Old Posted Oct 8, 2014, 4:21 AM
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isn't the Webers bridge the old bridge to the Skydome?
     
     
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