Halifax Stadium Discussion - Page 162

Empire · #**3221** Posted **Aug 8, 2011, 4:10 PM**

Hopefully a new stadium will be designed with concerts in mind. I was at the U2 concert in Moncton and was very unimpressed with the venue. Aside from it being a big field with a sight slope to the stage nothing else worked. Transportation was a nightmare with very limited access in and out, the communications of where to go etc. were non-existent, the food, beer & washroom locations were unworkable. At midnight in pitch dark conditions there is no lighting etc. to exit by. Oh, and of course when you do find your bus/shuttle etc. expect to wait 1-2 hours to get moving.

I would rate the site at 25,000 spectators max.

Very bad access to Magnetic Hill:
http://maps.google.ca/maps?q=Moncton,+Ne....15369&sspn=51.277416,95.537109&t=h&z=15

icetea93 · #**3222** Posted **Aug 8, 2011, 4:44 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Empire

Hopefully a new stadium will be designed with concerts in mind. I was at the U2 concert in Moncton and was very unimpressed with the venue. Aside from it being a big field with a sight slope to the stage nothing else worked. Transportation was a nightmare with very limited access in and out, the communications of where to go etc. were non-existent, the food, beer & washroom locations were unworkable. At midnight in pitch dark conditions there is no lighting etc. to exit by. Oh, and of course when you do find your bus/shuttle etc. expect to wait 1-2 hours to get moving.

I would rate the site at 25,000 spectators max.

Very bad access to Magnetic Hill:
http://maps.google.ca/maps?q=Moncton,+Ne....15369&sspn=51.277416,95.537109&t=h&z=15

I've heard many negative comments from the U2 concert as well. Not about the actual concert, but about the poor location. Mostly about how the concert was so far out in the middle of nowhere. Most people added that it should have been on citadel hill where they could go out to a pub or restaurant afterwards and have a city to go to after. These comments were not made by Haligonians, these people were from Amherst and Truro. On a positive note, I heard the concert itself was incredible and Moncton did very well to attract a world-class band like U2, even though I'm not a fan of them.

halifaxboyns · #**3223** Posted **Aug 8, 2011, 5:15 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by icetea93

I've heard many negative comments from the U2 concert as well. Not about the actual concert, but about the poor location. Mostly about how the concert was so far out in the middle of nowhere. Most people added that it should have been on citadel hill where they could go out to a pub or restaurant afterwards and have a city to go to after. These comments were not made by Haligonians, these people were from Amherst and Truro. On a positive note, I heard the concert itself was incredible and Moncton did very well to attract a world-class band like U2, even though I'm not a fan of them.

I don't think that citadell hill would've allowed for the full 360 degree experience that U2 was hoping for. But I suspect the commons would've worked in a pinch - had it been in Halifax.

As for the corporate sponsor - I emailed my councillor contact to make the suggestion they talk with NSP, Bell Aliant, Eastlink and a few of the other big companies around town and get their input on the size.

One thing that should come out of the negative comments coming from the U2 concert is the realization that:
1) Locating the concert (and logically a stadium) in the middle of no where doesn't work; and
2) The importance of good transportation connections to and from a concert/stadium site (regardless of location).

Empire · #**3224** Posted **Aug 8, 2011, 5:18 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by icetea93

I've heard many negative comments from the U2 concert as well. Not about the actual concert, but about the poor location. Mostly about how the concert was so far out in the middle of nowhere. Most people added that it should have been on citadel hill where they could go out to a pub or restaurant afterwards and have a city to go to after. These comments were not made by Haligonians, these people were from Amherst and Truro. On a positive note, I heard the concert itself was incredible and Moncton did very well to attract a world-class band like U2, even though I'm not a fan of them.

I think that U-2 could have played the commons at $175 per ticket and sold 50,000 tickets. Set the stage up where it was for McCartney and the oval could still be there.

MonctonRad · #**3225** Posted **Aug 8, 2011, 5:32 PM**

I have been avoiding posting in this thread because of the (occasionally) toxic atmosphere, but I am amused by the frequent references to Moncton over the last 3-4 pages.....

Regarding the U2 concert. The venue is great. It is a natural amphitheatre. Granted, it is on the edge of town and transit to and from the site can be problematic, but there are virtues to this type of location as well. For one thing, the field was destroyed by 75,000 pairs of feet within 90 minutes of the start of the concert. Can you imagine the howls of outrage from the "Friends of the Commons" if this had happened in Halifax!

(BTW, Halifax had twice as much rain on the date of the concert as Moncton did).

The concert site will need to be reseeded and will not recover until the fall or next spring. This would not be tolerated on the Commons, but it matters less in a field on the edge of town.

someone123 · #**3226** Posted **Aug 8, 2011, 5:41 PM**

I agree that location is extremely important. Basically it needs to be on the peninsula in order to fit in with other attractions. If it's on the peninsula people can walk from their hotel rooms and apartment buildings, they can go out for drinks after, and improvements to transportation infrastructure can be used for multiple purposes. This is more important than saving a few million dollars in one-time land costs or upsetting a few homeowners.

I'm not sure I should bother repeating this, but the "suburbs are more central" argument is also wrong. It goes something like:
1) More people live in the suburbs than on the peninsula, therefore
2) A suburban location is more convenient for most people

That might be true in some cities but it's not true in Halifax, where there's a giant harbour and basin separating 3 distinct suburban areas (Mainland Halifax, Dartmouth, Bedford/Sackville). There is no perfect easy location but the peninsula is the most central and has the great advantage of being pedestrian friendly and full of existing infrastructure for visitors. Even Shannon Park is a stretch because there's nothing out there right now.

Empire · #**3227** Posted **Aug 8, 2011, 5:42 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

I have been avoiding posting in this thread because of the (occasionally) toxic atmosphere, but I am amused by the frequent references to Moncton over the last 3-4 pages.....

Regarding the U2 concert. The venue is great. It is a natural amphitheatre. Granted, it is on the edge of town and transit to and from the site can be problematic, but there are virtues to this type of location as well. For one thing, the field was destroyed by 75,000 pairs of feet within 90 minutes of the start of the concert. Can you imagine the howls of outrage from the "Friends of the Commons" if this had happened in Halifax!

(BTW, Halifax had twice as much rain on the date of the concert as Moncton did).

The concert site will need to be reseeded and will not recover until the fall or next spring. This would not be tolerated on the Commons, but it matters less in a field on the edge of town.

I would hardly call the Magnetic Hill site an amphitheatre. An amphitheatre would typically wrap around in a semicircle. It is a sloped field with very bad access and a lot of the mud problems were caused by site grading prior to the concert that hadn't seeded properly. Also it would appear that drainage at the Magnetic Hill site is poor. Having the grade slope down to the stage is not as advantageous as one would think. First of all if you are a long way back you can barely see the stage anyway. However, having a gradual slope down means that the view can be blocked by people sitting on shoulders etc. If the stage is level you are looking up a bit but there is less to block it.

wespidel · #**3228** Posted **Aug 8, 2011, 9:26 PM**

Peter MacKay was interviewed on CTV local news and there is an article in the Herald you can read on line now.

What I indicated is exactly what is happening. You can`t expect Dexter`s govt. to only have their hands out and not willing to give back and that is what is holding up the new Convention Centre issue. Dexter has not stepped up at the plate on a major stadium and I don`t mean a Sue Uteck Special.

My Trade -off proposal I suggested on a post is coming into play loud and clear.

Peter MacKay met with Dexter on the week-end, on the new convention centre, lower churchhill hydro project and a major stadium to be built at Shannon Park and those are the facts, which I been telling you people all along.

Peter MacKay said publicly they are ready to go and Dexter knows what he has to do before Ottawa will support the new convention centre. If Dexter`s govt. commits to a major stadium for Halifax then there is go for the convention Centre and that is the deal and what`s is on the table and what should be on the table! Peter MacKay indicated the Dexter govt. knows what they have to do and if they comply Peter MacKay said there will be some big announcements this fall!

There it is my freinds, do you believe me now!

fenwick16 · #**3229** Posted **Aug 8, 2011, 9:37 PM**

This was posted by Haliguy in the Nova Centre thread but it also applies to the stadium. It would be good to see the federal government commit to some funding.

In my opinion, there is no connection between the convention centre delay and the stadium. Apparently Defense Minister MacKay is just letting Premier Dexter know that he also supports the construction of a stadium.

(source: http://thechronicleherald.ca/Front/9021653.html )

Quote:

MacKay: 'We're ready to go' on trade centre
Ball in developer's court on downtown Halifax project, federal minister says
By DAVID JACKSON Provincial Reporter
Mon, Aug 8 - 4:24 PM
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MacKay met with Premier Darrell Dexter on the weekend, and said the two spoke about the convention centre project, a federal loan guarantee for the Lower Churchill hydro project and the possibility of a stadium in the capital.

“Things are going well from my perspective. All of those initiatives will serve our province very well, will serve our region very well,” MacKay said.

“And so I’m encouraged at the status of these projects and these discussions and we should have some good announcements in the fall.”

Halifax regional council is scheduled to resume debate Tuesday on whether to go ahead with phase 2 of a stadium feasibility study. It would cost $275,000, while an initial report cost $100,000.

The study, released last month, says Halifax Regional Municipality could build a 10,000-seat stadium for sports and other events. The proposed facility would accommodate temporary seating doubling the capacity. Cost of the proposed stadium is unknown, though municipal staff have said it could be about $60 million. Phase 2 of the analysis would include cost, design and candidate sites.

MacKay has said publicly that he personally supports the idea of a stadium for the Halifax region, and that federal land at Shannon Park in Dartmouth would be a good site.
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There was also a story in TSN.ca by regarding the stadium (link - http://www.tsn.ca/columnists/alex_walling/?id=373419 )

Quote:

WALLING: HALIFAX CAN'T AFFORD TO DROP BALL ON STADIUM
Alex J. Walling
8/7/2011 9:02:59 PM
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Halifax almost had a stadium on a few occasions. In the early 80's, the Halifax Schooners almost happened under the guidance of ex-CFL man, the late J. I. Albrecht. The Schooners had an office and were almost selling season tickets when the stadium deal with the federal government fell through. The team had paid the $25,000 application fee but did not meet the deadline for the $250,000 franchise fee.

"We had it," J. I. told me, "before the feds changed their minds on a stadium."

This time, city council is taking the lead and, in round one, many were on board. But the thought of coughing up $275,000 while not having many answers is causing second thoughts. That and an election being only 15 months away may be a negative at this time.

The other time Halifax almost had a stadium is when they went for the 2014 Commonwealth Games. A 45,000-seat stadium was proposed for the event but Halifax backed out.

Regina, Winnipeg, Calgary and all CFL cities have a stadium. Regina wants a new one, Hamilton is building a new one, BC is revamping theirs for the Grey Cup and Halifax sits out of the loop. This city is supposed to be the economic, banking and business centre in Atlantic Canada; it has nearly 400,000 people but has a city council that waffles.

One thing is for sure and that is, if Halifax misses the boat on the 2015 Women's World Cup, then forget about a stadium for a long, long time. And, without a stadium, bring the CFL east to Moncton because they deserve the chance simply on their initiative.

wespidel · #**3230** Posted **Aug 8, 2011, 10:07 PM**

It will all play out and then what will you say!

halifaxboyns · #**3231** Posted **Aug 8, 2011, 10:27 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by wespidel

It will all play out and then what will you say!

Who cares who was right and who was wrong?
No one is keeping score...

wespidel · #**3232** Posted **Aug 8, 2011, 11:34 PM**

What`s more important is that Halifax gets a major stadium built and it`s obvious that Peter MacKay has the power to set the conditions because he wants a major facility built in Halifax and at Shannon park and he hasn`t once supported anything but a major stadium, which isn`t a 10 thousand seat outdoor facility to replace Saint Marys defunked stadium that is smaller than the Halifax Metro Centre.

You can`t expect Dexter`s NDP govt. to have their free hands out for 47 million dollars for the New Convention Centre unless they are willing to contribute the same, equal amount of money or more as their contribution towards a major stadium and that`s the reality of it all. The Feds have invested interest in the CFL and are very interested as well in a major stadium built in Halifax and so does Peter MacKay, who wants the province and our capital city and region and the Feds to all benefit. Sorry, but you will have to have a business and political background to understand the talks and their positions. It must be a win, win for all or there will be no deal and no Convention Centre money! You heard what Peter MacKay said, there ready to go, but the ball is in Dexter`s court and Dexter`s has to commit to support a major stadium for Halifax or there will be no deal. Peter MacKay also said that you may here some big projects announced in the fall and that isn`t just a new convention centre, it`s a package, a new convention centre with a new major stadium!

I`m very happy with Peter MacKay`s efforts and I know Dexter`s govt. is totally aware of Peter MacKay`s offer.
I personally presented the Dexter`s govt. my Trade-Off Proposal in an email before he went to Ottawa pitching the Feds to support the new convention centre. I sent it as well through another extremely important party, to be forwarded to Peter MacKay. But I`m sure Peter MacKay and Ottawa are intelligent enough that they were already thinking about their own Trade Off- Proposal as well which only makes business sense, especailly where the Shannon Park site and the FIFA Womens World Cup Of Soccer is steering them right in the face!

Anyway, let it play itself out!

CorbeauNoir · #**3233** Posted **Aug 9, 2011, 1:54 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Empire

Hopefully a new stadium will be designed with concerts in mind. I was at the U2 concert in Moncton and was very unimpressed with the venue. Aside from it being a big field with a sight slope to the stage nothing else worked. Transportation was a nightmare with very limited access in and out, the communications of where to go etc. were non-existent, the food, beer & washroom locations were unworkable. At midnight in pitch dark conditions there is no lighting etc. to exit by. Oh, and of course when you do find your bus/shuttle etc. expect to wait 1-2 hours to get moving.

I would rate the site at 25,000 spectators max.

Personally I hate massively-scaled concerts in general. They're stupidly overpriced, facilities are always inadequate for the people in attendance and unless you want to spend half the day standing around in front of the stage (in the mud and rain, in this case) you're pretty much guaranteed to have crappy sightlines once the main act finally starts - which has the spilloff effect of the performers having very little connection to the audience. There was some talk in the Herald today about mFest's attendance being a lot lower than hoped, but personally I thought it was pretty much perfect. The scale was intimate while still having a ton of great energy, and the view of downtown Halifax from Alderney Landing can't be beat - certainly more than some muddy field out in the middle of nowhere.

Not that Halifax shouldn't have a stadium, but even if they did I'd go to ten mFests before going to one U2 concert. Mega-concerts have their draws but I wouldn't ever hinge a desire for a stadium on one - Moncton can have those for all I care.

isaidso · #**3234** Posted **Aug 9, 2011, 5:30 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by fenwick16

There was also a story in TSN.ca by regarding the stadium (link - http://www.tsn.ca/columnists/alex_walling/?id=373419 ):

One thing is for sure and that is, if Halifax misses the boat on the 2015 Women's World Cup, then forget about a stadium for a long, long time. And, without a stadium, bring the CFL east to Moncton because they deserve the chance simply on their initiative.

I have a soft spot for the Maritimes, but gave up on the place 12 years ago. I always have a glimmer of hope that Halifax will start living up to its potential and make strides in the right direction.

It's thing like this that make people leave in the first place. If Halifax can't get this together I won't be surprised, but I'm still watching from 2000 km away to see if there's any point in one day returning. Life's too short; people get fed up and leave.

fenwick16 · #**3235** Posted **Aug 9, 2011, 6:34 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Waye Mason

Fenwick, why are you calling me names?

Please list these low cost stadiums that are currently planned or being built for CFL franchises.

Unfortunately people in the Halifax area give too much heed to the likes of Waye Mason - the new Bruce DeVenne. He gets involved in the Steering Committee hearings, goes on the radio, writes blogs, tweets about how it will cost $200 million or more for a CFL stadium, that the CFL has never shown any interest in Halifax having a franchise, that only the vocal minority want a CFL team, one piece of misinformation after another. Unfortunately many people listen to him.

Waye Mason has stated before - one of his reason's for not wanting a stadium is that he is worried about concert promoters losing out on concessions. He states it again on the following radio talkshow audio clip - it is the second segment after the one on illegal dumping- http://pmd.news957.com/podcasts/atlantic_talk_shows/RHshow/2011.08.03-15.00.00-EDIT.mp3 . I post this clip from August 3rd since it records one of his real reasons for opposing a stadium.

His pat answer to the question - "why can't Halifax build an economical stadium?" is always the same "are all the current Canadian CFL cities dumber than Halifax?" No Waye Mason they aren't dumber than Halifax, but why aren't you unbiased in your statements? Why do you ignore the simpler, less expensive stadiums such as Percival Molson Stadium in Montreal, McMahon Stadium in Calgary, even Commonwealth Stadium in Edmonton (big but not costly on a per seat basis)?

If you are an honest person, Waye Mason, then answer the question - why do sports fans need to have all-enclosed, climate controlled concourses to watch an outdoor sports event? - this is what makes a stadium expensive. Why do so many sports fans flock to the MLS stadiums which are far simpler in design than expensive CFL stadiums, or why is Percival Molson Stadium in Montreal so popular? - I think it is because people who go to outdoor events want to be outdoors; so they don't need all-enclosed, climate controlled stadiums (most MLS stadiums are not built in such an expensive manner). Halifax doesn't need an expensive stadium, the real sports fans will go to a Percival Molson-like stadium, or a smaller MacMahon-like stadium. CFL fans in Halifax aren't the vocal minority - you are the vocal minority. People leave the Halifax area because of the small town attitude of people such as yourself.

Probably today, Waye Mason, you will be on your twitter account sending your tweets hoping that HRM Councils rejects the phase 2 study as you were doing on August 2nd. Hopefully this time people in the Halifax area will finally ignore the small time thinking of you and your like, and decide to have some medium-sized dreams like other real cities (this is just a medium-sized dream, an economical stadium - something that most medium sized cities and all large cities have had for decades). It is time for Halifax to take a bigger part in the affairs of the country; having a decent but economical stadium is required to attract international and national events (including the FIFA Women's Cup and CFL).

halifaxboyns · #**3236** Posted **Aug 9, 2011, 5:16 PM**

Big surprise that Councillor Watts isn't interested in spending money on going any further (taken from the live feed).

halifaxboyns · #**3237** Posted **Aug 9, 2011, 5:26 PM**

McClusky says her support of phase 3 is conditional on knowing the operational defecit of every piece of infrastructure in the City. I think that's an interesting question - I'd be interested to see that. It would go back to my point that many of these cultural/recreational facilities don't make money.

halifaxboyns · #**3238** Posted **Aug 9, 2011, 5:30 PM**

Phase 2 will include discussion with stakeholders over corporate sponsorship; identification of all potential sites and stakeholder needs (ensuring the facility could be used in the best possible way).

halifaxboyns · #**3239** Posted **Aug 9, 2011, 5:32 PM**

Stretch is upset over the 3 step process - he says 'they should never do that again'. I agree, that or if they do have it more detailed.

halifaxboyns · #**3240** Posted **Aug 9, 2011, 5:57 PM**

Wile just totally took a shot at those not in support - talking about how the Canada games made money and gave many great facilities to help the community. She was pretty po'ed.

Outhit made it clear that we should go forward but make sure there was other money coming in since HRM got screwed on some other projects.