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  #3221  
Old Posted Apr 17, 2023, 8:49 PM
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Farm Boy is owned by Empire, and operates with a LOT of autonomy. There is very little product or price correlation between the Farm Boy and Sobeys brands, to the point that Farm Boy is often more affordable to than Sobeys for any comparable products post pandemic. Ironic, because Farm Boy is more upmarket. There has been much speculation recently that they Aldi and Lidl are considering entering the Canadian Market, so I'm sure they have heard of Canada.

Your entire argument is perfectly aligning the oligarchal propaganda that Canadians have been spoon fed by Loblaw, Empire and Metro for a generation. This is a land of opportunity for any grocer that wants to invest in a population that is screaming for choice. The biggest challenge isn't distribution, it's breaking through the wall the grocery oligarchs have built around this country with full participation of our last few governments.
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Last edited by Harley613; Apr 17, 2023 at 8:52 PM. Reason: grammar
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  #3222  
Old Posted Apr 17, 2023, 9:06 PM
acottawa acottawa is offline
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Originally Posted by Harley613 View Post
Farm Boy is owned by Empire, and operates with a LOT of autonomy. There is very little product or price correlation between the Farm Boy and Sobeys brands, to the point that Farm Boy is often more affordable to than Sobeys for any comparable products post pandemic. Ironic, because Farm Boy is more upmarket. There has been much speculation recently that they Aldi and Lidl are considering entering the Canadian Market, so I'm sure they have heard of Canada.

Your entire argument is perfectly aligning the oligarchal propaganda that Canadians have been spoon fed by Loblaw, Empire and Metro for a generation. This is a land of opportunity for any grocer that wants to invest in a population that is screaming for choice. The biggest challenge isn't distribution, it's breaking through the wall the grocery oligarchs have built around this country with full participation of our last few governments.
Unlike telecom there are no barriers to foreign entry of supermarkets into Canada. Aldi, Lidl, Trader Joe's, Publix, Tesco, Auchan, etc. could open in 2024 or 2025 of they wanted to, so the oligarchical propaganda is apparently working on foreign supermarket chains as well.

I think with foreign supermarkets look at Canada they see tiny margins (Loblaws profits are only a few percent of sales, for example), a lot of barriers to directly importing products (cartels, labelling, Canada-specific food rules), most good locations for supermarkets already taken, high wages and a triopoly that can buy in massive bulk.
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  #3223  
Old Posted Apr 17, 2023, 10:10 PM
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Unlike telecom there are no barriers to foreign entry of supermarkets into Canada. Aldi, Lidl, Trader Joe's, Publix, Tesco, Auchan, etc. could open in 2024 or 2025 of they wanted to, so the oligarchical propaganda is apparently working on foreign supermarket chains as well.

I think with foreign supermarkets look at Canada they see tiny margins (Loblaws profits are only a few percent of sales, for example), a lot of barriers to directly importing products (cartels, labelling, Canada-specific food rules), most good locations for supermarkets already taken, high wages and a triopoly that can buy in massive bulk.
Wholeheartedly agree with your entire second paragraph. These are all issues I have witnessed first hand as a regional manager who distributed products through the grocery channel for 9 of the last 10 years and dealt directly with 'the big 3' + Farm Boy. My whole point has been that distribution and geography are not the barrier to entry here.
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Last edited by Harley613; Apr 17, 2023 at 10:12 PM. Reason: fat fingers, bad grammar
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  #3224  
Old Posted Apr 17, 2023, 10:57 PM
Uhuniau Uhuniau is offline
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GAHHHHHHHHH. I'm so tired of hearing 'the vast area Canada covers' argument for our high prices and lack of competition.
Be as tired as you want, it's true.
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  #3225  
Old Posted Apr 17, 2023, 11:22 PM
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Be as tired as you want, it's true.
Except....it's not.
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  #3226  
Old Posted Apr 18, 2023, 12:34 AM
YOWetal YOWetal is offline
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Farm Boy is owned by Sobeys. It also doesn't generally try to compete on price. Aldi and Lidl both compete mainly on price. They have to go to the same suppliers ad the Big 3 use only with purchase volumes a fraction of what the Big 3 can offer. The Big 3 also have their own discount brand that offers many of the same features as Aldi/Lidl.

Also, has it ever occurred to that Aldi and Lidl have looked into this before? Surely they have heard of Canada.
The discount brands are really a strong don't come here strategy. In the US and Europe including, though less so, at LIDL you get lower quality and worse service. FreshCo for example is easily on par with the other Sobey's brands in quality and sells the exact same products for shockingly less money.
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  #3227  
Old Posted Apr 18, 2023, 1:03 AM
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The discount brands are really a strong don't come here strategy. In the US and Europe including, though less so, at LIDL you get lower quality and worse service. FreshCo for example is easily on par with the other Sobey's brands in quality and sells the exact same products for shockingly less money.
Sobey's is extremely jacked up along with Metro and Loblaws. It's the same playbook as the Telecoms use with their main brands being perceived as more 'premium' while their 'shadow brands' sell the same thing for less money. The grocers use colour pallettes, lighting, and decorating to make their main brands feel more premium than their discount brands. It's a sickening circus.
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  #3228  
Old Posted Apr 18, 2023, 1:06 AM
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The discount brands are really a strong don't come here strategy. In the US and Europe including, though less so, at LIDL you get lower quality and worse service. FreshCo for example is easily on par with the other Sobey's brands in quality and sells the exact same products for shockingly less money.
When we lived in the burbs we would alternate between Food Basics (packaged stuff, dairy) and Farm Boy (fresh produce, meat). We hardly ever went to Loblaws, Metro, etc.
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  #3229  
Old Posted Apr 18, 2023, 3:00 PM
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I just had a quick walk around Carlingwood for the first time in a couple of years. It is definitely coming close to 'Dead Mall' status with many empty stores and very few chains remaining. This mall held on for the longest time with what I used to call 'The Sea of Silver Hair', the hordes of seniors that frequented the mall for social outings and walking. Most of them seem to have moved on, perhaps from this Earth.
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  #3230  
Old Posted Apr 18, 2023, 5:06 PM
LeadingEdgeBoomer LeadingEdgeBoomer is offline
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I just had a quick walk around Carlingwood for the first time in a couple of years. It is definitely coming close to 'Dead Mall' status with many empty stores and very few chains remaining. This mall held on for the longest time with what I used to call 'The Sea of Silver Hair', the hordes of seniors that frequented the mall for social outings and walking. Most of them seem to have moved on, perhaps from this Earth.
No doubt many these seniors have moved onto the great Mall in the Sky, We seniors have a habit of doing that.

Yet, the population grows older and there are two new seniors to replace every one that passes on. That Carlingwood does not attract the new horde of seniors, or any other demograhic, does not bode well for it. It is toast*** (and tea).

*** The 'tea and toast syndrome' refers to malnutrition in seniors due to their lack of desire or inability to prepare and/or eat proper meals.
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  #3231  
Old Posted Apr 18, 2023, 6:21 PM
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No doubt many these seniors have moved onto the great Mall in the Sky, We seniors have a habit of doing that.

Yet, the population grows older and there are two new seniors to replace every one that passes on. That Carlingwood does not attract the new horde of seniors, or any other demograhic, does not bode well for it. It is toast*** (and tea).

*** The 'tea and toast syndrome' refers to malnutrition in seniors due to their lack of desire or inability to prepare and/or eat proper meals.
I wonder where the hot spot is for the new generation of Silver Hair? Is there a secret coffee speakeasy in a basement somewhere that they migrated to in order to escape covid restrictions?
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  #3232  
Old Posted Apr 18, 2023, 6:40 PM
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I wonder where the hot spot is for the new generation of Silver Hair? Is there a secret coffee speakeasy in a basement somewhere that they migrated to in order to escape covid restrictions?
Might just be a geography thing. Carling area has a lot of mid-century housing that probably had a lot of people born in the 30s. More recent retirees would probably be boomers that live further out.
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  #3233  
Old Posted Apr 18, 2023, 6:59 PM
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The mall itself isn't doing too hot (in terms of vacant units) but I'm surprised that it is consistently busy whenever I go. With a food court, Tim Hortons, Loblaw's, Dollarama and brand new Canadian Tire, there's quite a few anchors drawing seniors and nearby residents.

Obviously the Canadian Tire is new and isn't going anywhere but I'd love to see them demolish half of the mall and build some condo/rental towers with a new Loblaw's at the base (wouldn't want to take away an existing grocery store). Or reinvest in the mall, renovate and attract new tenants, but it might be a bit too late for that.
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  #3234  
Old Posted Apr 18, 2023, 8:33 PM
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Originally Posted by Harley613 View Post
I just had a quick walk around Carlingwood for the first time in a couple of years. It is definitely coming close to 'Dead Mall' status with many empty stores and very few chains remaining. This mall held on for the longest time with what I used to call 'The Sea of Silver Hair', the hordes of seniors that frequented the mall for social outings and walking. Most of them seem to have moved on, perhaps from this Earth.
You must have picked the wrong time. The seniors keep all those food outlets in business.
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  #3235  
Old Posted Apr 18, 2023, 8:38 PM
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Originally Posted by OTSkyline View Post
The mall itself isn't doing too hot (in terms of vacant units) but I'm surprised that it is consistently busy whenever I go. With a food court, Tim Hortons, Loblaw's, Dollarama and brand new Canadian Tire, there's quite a few anchors drawing seniors and nearby residents.

Obviously the Canadian Tire is new and isn't going anywhere but I'd love to see them demolish half of the mall and build some condo/rental towers with a new Loblaw's at the base (wouldn't want to take away an existing grocery store). Or reinvest in the mall, renovate and attract new tenants, but it might be a bit too late for that.
Some (seniors) apartments and an expanded Loblaws would do wonders for the site (maybe replacing the parking garage out back). Apart from the Canadian Tire, there's a new gym in the old YMCA space and a new electric bike/scooter shop just opened. Although several other places have closed recently. I sometimes think that Giant Tiger might be a good fit in Carlingwood - the dollar store in the basement is very busy.
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  #3236  
Old Posted Apr 18, 2023, 11:55 PM
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Originally Posted by Harley613 View Post
I just had a quick walk around Carlingwood for the first time in a couple of years. It is definitely coming close to 'Dead Mall' status with many empty stores and very few chains remaining. This mall held on for the longest time with what I used to call 'The Sea of Silver Hair', the hordes of seniors that frequented the mall for social outings and walking. Most of them seem to have moved on, perhaps from this Earth.
Hazeldean Mall may give Carlingwood a run for the deadest mall in the area.
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  #3237  
Old Posted Apr 19, 2023, 12:31 AM
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Hazeldean Mall may give Carlingwood a run for the deadest mall in the area.
Westgate?
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  #3238  
Old Posted Apr 19, 2023, 1:09 AM
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Westgate?
Westgate wins this competition hands down.
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  #3239  
Old Posted Apr 19, 2023, 12:21 PM
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Westgate wins this competition hands down.
When Westgate comes down, maybe some of the remaining vendors will move to Carlingwood? Same demographic, istm.
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  #3240  
Old Posted May 3, 2023, 3:09 PM
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New Canadian retail chain set to launch from ashes of former Bed Bath & Beyond locations
Entrepreneur Doug Putman taking over 21 locations, and Canadian Tire moving into some, too

Pete Evans · CBC News
Posted: May 03, 2023 9:44 AM EDT | Last Updated: 6 minutes ago


Serial entrepreneur Doug Putman plans to launch his latest retail venture by taking over most of the remnants of Bed Bath & Beyond, in a new chain called rooms + spaces.

Putman, who has made similar moves when HMV, Toys 'R' Us and DavidsTea went insolvent, plans to open the home store brand in 21 former locations of Bed Bath & Beyond and buybuy BABY storefronts later this summer.

"We certainly think that it's a growth area, the market is massive — billions and billions of dollars," Putman told CBC News in an interview.

Putman says the chain has been looking at the home and decor space for a while, and saw an opportunity when the U.S. retailer went bankrupt, which caused it to shutter dozens of locations across Canada.

"That is kind of the story with most things that we buy — good companies that have just lost their way," he said. That's a reference to Putman's previous retail ventures, all of which follow a similar pattern: coming in and either moving into former locations of a defunct chain, or in some cases buying up the brand itself.

"We felt like we could put together a team that could service the Canadian marketplace, the way that Bed Bath & Beyond used to."

Putman's endeavour will start with 21 locations scattered across Ontario, British Columbia, Alberta, Saskatchewan and Newfoundland and Labrador. That's less than half of the 50-odd locations that Bed Bath & Beyond took up, and Putman says he would have been happy to take in more.

"Anywhere that we're not, we're still looking," he said.

In total, rooms + spaces will launch with 800,000 square feet of retail space, plus an e-commerce website. The company will be hiring about 500 people off the bat, and the venture will be led by Greg Dyer, the former general manager for Bed Bath & Beyond in Canada.

Putman says he would have been prepared to start with even more locations, but landlords had other tenants in mind.



A major one of those tenants was revealed in a separate piece of news on Wednesday, as Canadian Tire announced it would be taking over 10 former Bed Bath & Beyond stores and converting them into Mark's Work Wearhouse and Pro Hockey Life locations.

Financial terms for Putman's transaction were not released, but the price tag for Canadian Tire's deal — $1.6 million to acquire 10 leases — suggests landlords were keen to find people to take over as many of Bed Bath & Beyond's 60-odd locations.

"They got a great deal," retail consultant Liza Amlani says, but that's not to suggest that either venture is without risk.

The home and decor market that rooms + spaces is targeting, meanwhile, is huge and growing, she says, but already full with experienced, large players.

She notes that one of the chain's locations will be in London, Ont., in a mall that already has a half-dozen other chains selling similar goods.

"How do they know what the customer wants from them, as they never existed before?" she said. "That home customer has more choices than ever."

Amlani said Putman's strategy is "a crazy idea but it could work if certain ducks are in order."

https://www.cbc.ca/news/business/rooms-spaces-bed-bath-beyond-1.6830500
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