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  #3181  
Old Posted Mar 21, 2023, 3:01 PM
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Originally Posted by acottawa View Post
Lots of jobs are demanding but there is no expectation that the person doing the demanding job gets 15-20% of gross revenue. This isn't a reward for exceptional service, it is expected no matter what the level of service.
Which is why servers need to be paid a living wage for their demanding job if we want to get rid of tipping.
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  #3182  
Old Posted Mar 21, 2023, 3:03 PM
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What's everybody's take on tipping barbers and hairdressers, moving people, trades, pet groomers, I don't know, just so much these days.
- I ordered flowers (off the internet) for my wife at a local flower shop. Suggested tip was 18%. This was _before_ any service was rendered. What if I didn't tip? Would I get lousy service?

- At an airport I ordered a beer off a touchscreen monitor. Suggested tip was 20%. Someone walked in front of me, poured the beer, turned around and placed it in front of me without saying a word. We're now tipping machines.

Tipping is TOTALLY out of control in the US and Canada. I just got back from France where "what you see is what you pay" (Service Compris). There is a better way.. but unfortunately I doubt North Americans will ever be able to grasp the concept.
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  #3183  
Old Posted Mar 21, 2023, 3:27 PM
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What's everybody's take on tipping barbers and hairdressers, moving people, trades, pet groomers, I don't know, just so much these days.
You tip an employee or somebody renting a chair but not an owner.
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  #3184  
Old Posted Mar 21, 2023, 3:32 PM
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You tip an employee or somebody renting a chair but not an owner.
That would be logical, though one senses that that nuance is lost on a lot of people these days. Not just the clients, but probably more than a few "owners" who might not react well to not getting a tip if they are the ones who cut your hair.

Thinking of the place I go to. Not sure if this is a person who is up on the financial etiquette of the haircutting sector. Though maybe I am wrong.
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  #3185  
Old Posted Mar 21, 2023, 4:17 PM
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North American tipping culture really sucks. The US is particularly insane but we’re getting there…they’ll confront you about it if they deem their gratuity to be inadequate. 15% is scoffed at down there.

Don’t servers/bartenders in Ontario now get minimum wages of $15.50, whereas in the past I think they made less than minimum in recognition of the fact that they made tips. Yet the expectation isn’t lessening but rather seems to be increasing.
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  #3186  
Old Posted Mar 21, 2023, 4:35 PM
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Originally Posted by YOWflier View Post
North American tipping culture really sucks. The US is particularly insane but we’re getting there…they’ll confront you about it if they deem their gratuity to be inadequate. 15% is scoffed at down there.

Don’t servers/bartenders in Ontario now get minimum wages of $15.50, whereas in the past I think they made less than minimum in recognition of the fact that they made tips. Yet the expectation isn’t lessening but rather seems to be increasing.
Servers in many states earn as little as $2.13 an hour, so I understand the pressure there, to some extent.
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  #3187  
Old Posted Mar 21, 2023, 4:38 PM
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In all fairness I never should have tipped them, but I used to give them a small tip before this price increase. And I noticed you’re now being asked to give a tip when you buy beer cans to take out in some breweries. Eh no thanks.
I went to one of those artisinal doughnut places a few days ago and noticed that the flavour I wanted was $4.20 with tax. I gave the server $5 and they bid me good day. I wondered where my $0.80 was and the server said 'oh I thought was my tip'.. I updated him that it wasn't and that was the last time I would be going to the place. The nerve of the guy.

I don't tip for takeout in any circumstance and I'm certainly not tipping to have a doughnut put in a box. Tipping should be for good/exceptional service not just taking your order.
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  #3188  
Old Posted Mar 21, 2023, 4:49 PM
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Originally Posted by acottawa View Post
Servers in many states earn as little as $2.13 an hour, so I understand the pressure there, to some extent.
I hear that and personally find it hard to leave less than 15% anywhere, even when the service is miserable. And I always reward going above and beyond with 20% (never mind that’s now become the default expectation irrespective of service quality).

I’m not sure I’m obligated to closely study the wage situation in every destination I go to in order to calibrate my tips. Is that what people do?

Of course I do brush up on local customs if I’m going somewhere sufficiently different or unfamiliar to me, but when I’m North America I do pretty much the same thing everywhere.
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  #3189  
Old Posted Mar 21, 2023, 4:56 PM
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Originally Posted by Proof Sheet View Post
I went to one of those artisinal doughnut places a few days ago and noticed that the flavour I wanted was $4.20 with tax. I gave the server $5 and they bid me good day. I wondered where my $0.80 was and the server said 'oh I thought was my tip'.. I updated him that it wasn't and that was the last time I would be going to the place. The nerve of the guy.

I don't tip for takeout in any circumstance and I'm certainly not tipping to have a doughnut put in a box. Tipping should be for good/exceptional service not just taking your order.
That's incredibly awkward
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  #3190  
Old Posted Mar 21, 2023, 5:31 PM
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Originally Posted by Acajack View Post
That would be logical, though one senses that that nuance is lost on a lot of people these days. Not just the clients, but probably more than a few "owners" who might not react well to not getting a tip if they are the ones who cut your hair.

Thinking of the place I go to. Not sure if this is a person who is up on the financial etiquette of the haircutting sector. Though maybe I am wrong.
Back in the day, it would have been seen as insulting to tip an owner. Maybe a gratuity in a card at Christmas ...
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  #3191  
Old Posted Mar 21, 2023, 5:38 PM
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Originally Posted by kwoldtimer View Post
Back in the day, it would have been seen as insulting to tip an owner. Maybe a gratuity in a card at Christmas ...
That's what I do with my newspaper delivery people; $20 per year at Christmas.

The other question is, do we tip over taxes? When using the machine, the % suggested tip over the taxes. Unless you want to do some quick math on the spot with the waiter(esse) staring at you, it's easier to just use the quick "select a tip" option.
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  #3192  
Old Posted Mar 21, 2023, 6:08 PM
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That's incredibly awkward
I definitely wouldn't be impressed if I were a business owner and learned of my employees doing that.
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  #3193  
Old Posted Mar 21, 2023, 6:21 PM
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Originally Posted by J.OT13 View Post
That's what I do with my newspaper delivery people; $20 per year at Christmas.

The other question is, do we tip over taxes? When using the machine, the % suggested tip over the taxes. Unless you want to do some quick math on the spot with the waiter(esse) staring at you, it's easier to just use the quick "select a tip" option.
I generally do the math in advance, but if I forget, I just take 2% off the preset. That might mean hitting 18% instead of 20, or entering a specific percentage.
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  #3194  
Old Posted Mar 21, 2023, 6:24 PM
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I generally do the math in advance, but if I forget, I just take 2% off the preset. That might mean hitting 18% instead of 20, or entering a specific percentage.
Three times the GST for an easy 15% number.
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  #3195  
Old Posted Mar 21, 2023, 7:07 PM
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Originally Posted by YOWflier View Post
I hear that and personally find it hard to leave less than 15% anywhere, even when the service is miserable. And I always reward going above and beyond with 20% (never mind that’s now become the default expectation irrespective of service quality).

I’m not sure I’m obligated to closely study the wage situation in every destination I go to in order to calibrate my tips. Is that what people do?

Of course I do brush up on local customs if I’m going somewhere sufficiently different or unfamiliar to me, but when I’m North America I do pretty much the same thing everywhere.
If you do want to check it is here.

https://www.minimum-wage.org/tipped
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  #3196  
Old Posted Mar 21, 2023, 7:17 PM
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Originally Posted by acottawa View Post
If you do want to check it is here.

https://www.minimum-wage.org/tipped
So the employer has to bridge the gap if the tips don't measure up? Sounds like we don't need to tip higher in those States then.

Some of those are disgustingly low minimum wages. Sure housing and most daily essentials are cheaper in the U.S., but they also have a terrible, borderline non-existent, safety net (health care, for example).
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  #3197  
Old Posted Mar 21, 2023, 7:21 PM
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Originally Posted by J.OT13 View Post
So the employer has to bridge the gap if the tips don't measure up? Sounds like we don't need to tip higher in those States then.

Some of those are disgustingly low minimum wages. Sure housing and most daily essentials are cheaper in the U.S., but they also have a terrible, borderline non-existent, safety net (health care, for example).
My understanding is that it is the opposite, the employer can roll back the amount in the second column, only paying the amount in the third column.
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  #3198  
Old Posted Mar 21, 2023, 7:41 PM
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The NCC is doing a tour of some it's vacant retail spaces on sparks street.

https://ncc-ccn.gc.ca/events/tour-sp...owntown-ottawa

The information package is somewhat interesting

https://ncc-website-2.s3.amazonaws.c..._ENG_v2_sl.pdf
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  #3199  
Old Posted Mar 21, 2023, 10:44 PM
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Originally Posted by YOWflier View Post
North American tipping culture really sucks. The US is particularly insane but we’re getting there…they’ll confront you about it if they deem their gratuity to be inadequate. 15% is scoffed at down there.
Look at cruises in the US. You are expected to tip the taxi or shuttle driver taking you to the ship, the luggage porter at the port (I call this luggage protection money because god knows where they can send your luggage if you don't tip well). If you happen to stay the night before, you have to tip the shuttle guy taking you to the hotel, and leave a tip for the maid, not to mention at every meal, even if it's fast food. Then you get on the ship where they automatically tack on a couple hundred dollars in tips to your account, which doesn't even cover all the tips for the week. Order room service, you are expected to tip. Buy a drink and they tack on 18% gratuity to your bill and then also have a tip line on the bill for you to add even more. And then, even though you paid the tips for the crew on your account, they still expect you to tip extra in cash the last night. Get off the ship to a steady stream of people with their hands out again. Not only the taxi driver to the airport, but there is also a taxi coordinator at the port in many places. Then some carefully choreographed arrival at the airport where some other porter will snag your luggage before you get out of the cab, so gotta pay that guy. Get off the plane at your home airport and take a shuttle to the parking lot for that one last hand out. I swear when I drove my car to Baltimore for a cruise, I paid for my gas with the tip money I saved from just the shuttles and taxi drivers lol.
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  #3200  
Old Posted Mar 23, 2023, 4:13 PM
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Zellers relaunching 12 stores across Canada today — and nostalgia is the door crasher
A dozen locations set to open, despite tough outlook for department stores

Pete Evans · CBC News
Posted: Mar 23, 2023 4:00 AM EDT | Last Updated: 8 hours ago


A dozen Zellers locations are set to open across Canada on Thursday, a decade after the discount chain vanished from the country's retail landscape.

Hudson's Bay Company, which began the lengthy process of shuttering Zellers locations in 2013, announced earlier this year that it planned to resurrect the chain at 25 locations scattered across the country soon.

The first dozen are set to officially open on Thursday — nine in Ontario and three in Alberta — in a move that retail analysts say faces an uphill climb in a tougher-than-ever retail landscape.

"Department stores are in trouble, and have been for quite some time, in the sense that the way that we shop at them is fundamentally different," said Joseph Aversa, who teaches retail management at the Ted Rogers School of Management at Toronto Metropolitan University.

That's because the pandemic brought about a sea change in how Canadians shop, from the rise of online shopping to a split in physical stores between high- and low-end — with those in the middle getting crushed.

Aversa says it's telling that, rather than launching standalones, the chain is building Zellers locations inside Bay stores. That's likely because parent company The Bay is trying to find innovative ways to drive customers to hundreds of thousands of retail square footage it already has.

"[They're saying] in most of our stores, we have too much real estate for what we sell so this is maybe an option to try to shake things up a little bit."

HBC says customers can expect a mix of products in the store, from housewares to toys, and from fashion apparel to a limited selection of furniture. Pricing will be based on what it calls a "rounded retail" strategy which means all items will be priced in round numbers like $1 — no extra cents added.

In the coming days, the nine locations in Ontario and three in Alberta will include food, too, as the chain teased in videos online that a "Zellers diner" branded food truck will appear at locations as they open.

Aversa says that speaks to how experimental the chain is being with its launch, and is clearly planning to cater to a sense of nostalgia since many of the former Zellers stores had sit-down restaurants inside them.

"But you need to be more than just nostalgic for me to come and give you my money," he said.



Ela Veresiu, an associated professor of marketing at the Schulich School of Business at York University, says nostalgia can be a powerful marketing tool, but getting customers to come in and spend based on it is easier said than done.

"Converting nostalgia into a meaningful business model is how I see Zellers succeeding," she told CBC News.

While the chain has its work cut out for it, Veresiu says if Zellers can get consumers who remember the brand in the door, and offer value to them once they're there, they have a shot.

"Zellers already has the image in the marketplace as being a discounted retailer, whereas the Bay has the image of being a confused retailer that doesn't know what it is anymore," she said.

Nostalgia might play with Canadians who remember the brand, but Veresiu says it's clear the chain also has plans to win over the younger generation by engaging with them where they are: online.

She notes that while a Zellers Instagram account sprung to life earlier this year, it already has almost 34,000 followers, despite having made only 18 posts — half of which were a photo collage showing the logo.

"They're going the route of Wendy's account to be highly humorous, to tease consumers… or potential consumers," she said.

"If they can maintain this playful, light, funny tone, across their, their social media, and as well, with retro or nostalgic elements, I think that would go a long way to help guarantee their success and their sustainable business plan."

https://www.cbc.ca/news/business/zel...-day-1.6787089
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