Stadiums & Arenas of Canada, Part 3

[esquire]

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

And the way that Halifax bailed on the Commonwealth Games means that it will be generations before that particular event comes knocking at Halifax's door again.

And this isn't just me poking a stick in Halifax's eye. NB bailed on the upcoming Francophonie Games too, so I don't see that event coming to NB again in the foreseeable future either..........

Decisions like this can damage a city's reputation. Not that I'm saying it was particularly a bad decision not to hold the games. At least in NB's case, the cost of the games in Moncton had been badly misrepresented, and would have been nearly 10x the original anticipated cost.

I wonder if these large multisport events are just going to shrink dramatically or die off altogether? They have become so bulky and awkward that I don't know how they could be anything other than a losing proposition for the host. It's partly why the Winter Olympics practically defaulted to Italy... no one else really wanted them, unless you count Sweden's half-hearted bid.

I mean, look at a tier two event like the Pan Am Games. Winnipeg '99 cost $140 million, and that caused a bit of a furor on its own at the time. By contrast, Toronto '15 cost $2.5 billion, which doesn't just approach the level of absurdity, it crashed right through that level, Kool-Aid Man style.

[JHikka]

Westhills progress:

May 2019:


June 2019:

photos are screencaps via CPL on Youtube

[esquire]

^ I love the use of wood, it looks very nice.

[someone123]

Originally Posted by esquire

I wonder if these large multisport events are just going to shrink dramatically or die off altogether? They have become so bulky and awkward that I don't know how they could be anything other than a losing proposition for the host. It's partly why the Winter Olympics practically defaulted to Italy... no one else really wanted them, unless you count Sweden's half-hearted bid.

I mean, look at a tier two event like the Pan Am Games. Winnipeg '99 cost $140 million, and that caused a bit of a furor on its own at the time. By contrast, Toronto '15 cost $2.5 billion, which doesn't just approach the level of absurdity, it crashed right through that level, Kool-Aid Man style.

The Commonwealth Games were interesting. It might have been possible to come up with a better bid, but Halifax was better off bailing than paying $1.4B or whatever the final price tag would have been in order to get 15 minutes of fame and a $150M stadium.

HRM council considered building a stadium as part of the FIFA Women's Cup bid. Then there are Canada Games and various other events. They seem to come every 3-5 years. Maybe the CFL promotion will take so long that they'll try to bundle it with the next event proposal.

[Djeffery]

Originally Posted by JHikka

The issue in London is that local council is insane and it's prohibitively difficult to get anything of any substance done. The Western facility is nice but it couldn't be permanent for either CPL or CFL in the long run.

I won't dispute our council being difficult to deal with, but as I said above, there would be absolutely no reason to build such a stadium here.

[Dalreg]

Realistically the next major stadium (20,000+) could only be built in a handful of cities?

Halifax
Quebec City
London
Kitchener
Saskatoon
Kelowna
Victoria

[Dr Awesomesauce]

I'll say it again: the smartest thing for Halifax to do is go small, charming and incremental like Westhills Stadium, for example. Build a 15,000-seat stadium with beautiful, wooden grandstands, bleacher-seating, beer garden, etc. If people fill it, great, add another couple thousand seats. And repeat. Channel the charm of collegiate football in the Maritimes. Small, quaint...

No businessman with half a brain is going to throw money at a CFL team in an unproven market. Unless, that is, they have so much money that it's more a charity case than a business one. See Bob Young.

Am I wrong?

[GreatTallNorth2]

Originally Posted by The S'toon Goon

I wonder if there is any appetite for 20,000 seat stadium in London, Ontario. It is roughly the same size as Halifax so it could arguably use the same type of infastructure that we say Halifax could use.

I think Western has roughly a 9 or 10,000 seat facility so maybe that's just fine, but perhaps not? London isn't shrinking either!

As a life long Londoner, I would have to say that there would have to be something driving the need for a 20,000 seat stadium. In reality there would be no real reason to build a stadium of that size, except maybe for concerts and even for that it would be difficult to justify the cost for that. Budweiser Gardens had to be built for the Knights, but what team is there to play in a 20,000 seat stadium?

The reality is that we are so close to Toronto, Hamilton, Detroit and Buffalo that we can easily see a CFL/NFL game if we want to. And I really don't think there are that many people interested in CFL in coming to London. I could see a smaller soccer stadium built and I hope we get a CanPL team, but we would be talking 4000-5000 seats maximum for that.

[isaidso]

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

And the way that Halifax bailed on the Commonwealth Games means that it will be generations before that particular event comes knocking at Halifax's door again.

And this isn't just me poking a stick in Halifax's eye. NB bailed on the upcoming Francophonie Games too, so I don't see that event coming to NB again in the foreseeable future either..........

Decisions like this can damage a city's reputation. Not that I'm saying it was particularly a bad decision not to hold the games. At least in NB's case, the cost of the games in Moncton had been badly misrepresented, and would have been nearly 10x the original anticipated cost.

I'd argue that the damage was rather minimal because Canadians haven't cared about the Commonwealth Games for a very long time. Halifax dodged a bullet. It gets practically no coverage in this country. Even if it did, not many of us would watch.

[osmo]

Originally Posted by isaidso

I'd argue that the damage was rather minimal because Canadians haven't cared about the Commonwealth Games for a very long time. Halifax dodged a bullet. It gets practically no coverage in this country. Even if it did, not many of us would watch.

Halifax also missed an opportunity to build much needed sports infrastructure. As much as these large sports events are dubious money pits they also are the few this the actually gets large investment dollars from various levels of government into infrastructure.

[EpicPonyTime]

Originally Posted by Dalreg

Realistically the next major stadium (20,000+) could only be built in a handful of cities?

Halifax
Quebec City
London
Kitchener
Saskatoon
Kelowna
Victoria

My big what-if for a future stadium in Canada is Quebec City hosting the Winter Olympics. The issue in the past has been the lack of a suitable mountain for the downhill events, but the struggles faced by the IOC to attract hosts for the Winter Games in particular make me wonder if they will relax their requirements.

[Djeffery]

I think in the unlikely event Quebec City ever hosted a Winter Olympics, they could probably look at temporary seating being added to Telus Stadium, which was expanded to 18,000 or so for the Vanier Cups that have been held there. A stadium for the Winter games is only an opening and closing ceremony venue anyway. The one in Korea last year barely sat 30,000, and it still looked great on TV.

[EpicPonyTime]

Originally Posted by Djeffery

I think in the unlikely event Quebec City ever hosted a Winter Olympics, they could probably look at temporary seating being added to Telus Stadium, which was expanded to 18,000 or so for the Vanier Cups that have been held there. A stadium for the Winter games is only an opening and closing ceremony venue anyway. The one in Korea last year barely sat 30,000, and it still looked great on TV.

I don't think the IOC would be happy with a 18K stadium. 30K seems to be the benchmark based upon previous builds/expansions. Can they fit that many into Telus while handling the international media?

[king10]

Originally Posted by Dalreg

Realistically the next major stadium (20,000+) could only be built in a handful of cities?

Halifax
Quebec City
London
Kitchener
Saskatoon
Kelowna
Victoria

Calgary?

[king10]

Originally Posted by JHikka

The issue in London is that local council is insane and it's prohibitively difficult to get anything of any substance done. The Western facility is nice but it couldn't be permanent for either CPL or CFL in the long run.

CFL for sure it's not acceptable. But CPL for the first 5 to 10 years it could do. If the franchise is successful they could consider their own build?

[Djeffery]

Originally Posted by king10

CFL for sure it's not acceptable. But CPL for the first 5 to 10 years it could do. If the franchise is successful they could consider their own build?

I don't know. How many track and field stadiums are being used now in CPL? When my son played minor football there, it was so far away. I don't know if that atmosphere breeds success for soccer. And they would never fill all 8000 or so cold bench seats there. I think too much capacity works against them. I would go the other way, talk to the German Canadian club or the Portuguese club about adding some bleachers and spurring demand with a lower supply and then moving into their own 3000-5000 seat facility after they have shown the games to be the place to be.

[JHikka]

Originally Posted by Djeffery

I don't know. How many track and field stadiums are being used now in CPL?

Just the one in York, and that is set to be replaced in the next few years.

Originally Posted by Djeffery

I would go the other way, talk to the German Canadian club or the Portuguese club about adding some bleachers and spurring demand with a lower supply and then moving into their own 3000-5000 seat facility after they have shown the games to be the place to be.

I'd agree with this. Go the Halifax model and set up temp stands at an already known field. Low cost, low risk, and doesn't rely on local government funding.

[Djeffery]

Originally Posted by EpicPonyTime

I don't think the IOC would be happy with a 18K stadium. 30K seems to be the benchmark based upon previous builds/expansions. Can they fit that many into Telus while handling the international media?

I'm not saying 18k for the Olympics. I'm saying expand it to around 30 or close. I think it can be done with temporary bleachers similar to how the CFL is expanding Tim Horton's Field for the Grey Cup. They are adding a smaller than usual temporary bleacher section of about 6000 seats at one end zone. Quebec could easily do similar or more, to both end zones at Telus, and maybe even some permanent additions. It's for 2 days of use, so I don't think the lack of a full size permanent stadium would be the main negative factor for QC hosting the Olympics.

[blueandgoldguy]

Originally Posted by Djeffery

I'm not saying 18k for the Olympics. I'm saying expand it to around 30 or close. I think it can be done with temporary bleachers similar to how the CFL is expanding Tim Horton's Field for the Grey Cup. They are adding a smaller than usual temporary bleacher section of about 6000 seats at one end zone. Quebec could easily do similar or more, to both end zones at Telus, and maybe even some permanent additions. It's for 2 days of use, so I don't think the lack of a full size permanent stadium would be the main negative factor for QC hosting the Olympics.

There is no way you could have 30,000 seats at Telus Stadium. Just look at the site. It is boxed in by buildings and roads. On the off chance that Quebec actually competed for and won the rights to host the Olympics, it would be easier to build a temporary stadium like Korea did from scratch somewhere else.

[Wpg_Guy]

Game night


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