What is it like to come home to Canada?

[Loco101]

Originally Posted by MonkeyRonin

This is almost as out-of-touch as a JT quote!

If someone working two jobs can't comfortably afford accommodation even in a shared apartment, anywhere in this country (let alone our largest city where 1/5th of the population lives), we have a big problem. The fact that some people would rather risk living in an actual warzone than try to make it work here should be both an embarrassment and a major cause of concern for all us.

We aren't getting the full story about the individual. It doesn't really add up in my opinion. If I'm forced to move to another country for whatever reason I'm going to look at somewhere that's affordable with a decent paying job before anything else when looking at a place to settle.

[theman23]

Originally Posted by Loco101

We aren't getting the full story about the individual. It doesn't really add up in my opinion. If I'm forced to move to another country for whatever reason I'm going to look at somewhere that's affordable with a decent paying job before anything else when looking at a place to settle.

I'm guessing when he says he's moving back to Sweden he isn't talking about settling in Kiruna. Reading the article, he's likely going to Stockholm.

The article also mentions difficulty recognizing foreign credentials, which isn't going to get better by simply moving to a cheaper city. I'm not even sure cost of living gets much better when you move out of the GTA anymore. Outside of housing, everything else will be more expensive. Housing may not be as cheap as you think either. The median 1 bedroom apartment in this country is $1900, almost double what he pays for his current rent. He likely would have a harder time finding acceptable room mates in a smaller real estate market.

[harls]

Personally, if I were to move to a new country I would avoid the default location.

That's just my adventurous side, though.

[giallo]

Originally Posted by harls

Personally, if I were to move to a new country I would avoid the default location.

That's just my adventurous side, though.

I guess it depends on what you're looking for.

I did that in Taiwan (went to Tainan rather than Taipei), and while I love little ol' Tainan, I grew bored of it extremely quickly, and was looking for a way out by year two.

Moved to China next, and didn't mess around - straight to Shanghai. One of my life's best decisions.

[Wigs]

Originally Posted by harls

Personally, if I were to move to a new country I would avoid the default location.

That's just my adventurous side, though.

You've got to uproot your life and retire back to Manitoba or the prophecy goes unfulfilled

[jje1000]

Originally Posted by jamincan

This is kind of funny, as someone with enough of an interest in paleontology to listen to podcasts about it and make a point of visiting collections when visiting other cities (but just an interest), the ROM is actually a premier institution globally, at least in that one regard.

The problem with the ROM I find are their galleries, as they can hardly display a fraction of their collection in them.

The Crystal's galleries are subpar, and in some cases, changes made have actually diminished their collection on display For instance, the relatively new and excellent Japanese gallery for instance has disappeared and has been replaced by an event space(!).

https://www.rom.on.ca/sites/default/...ng.pdf?v=10.27

See the ground floor, where once there was Korea, China, and Japan, there is now Korea, China, and the Philosopher's Gallery event space. Same goes for the Canadian History gallery, which is also gone.

[alps]

Originally Posted by Loco101

We aren't getting the full story about the individual. It doesn't really add up in my opinion. If I'm forced to move to another country for whatever reason I'm going to look at somewhere that's affordable with a decent paying job before anything else when looking at a place to settle.

Smaller cities are stupidly expensive now too. I moved back to Halifax last year and I seriously regret it due to the housing situation. If I end up leaving Halifax (likely), I'm sure as hell not staying in Canada. The housing crisis is by design. Non-homeowners should consider emigrating.

[harls]

Originally Posted by giallo

I guess it depends on what you're looking for.

I did that in Taiwan (went to Tainan rather than Taipei), and while I love little ol' Tainan, I grew bored of it extremely quickly, and was looking for a way out by year two.

Moved to China next, and didn't mess around - straight to Shanghai. One of my life's best decisions.

It was fun when I was 23 and moved to Toronto on a whim. That was in 1999. Now a quarter century older, I don't have the same energy.

Originally Posted by Wigs

You've got to uproot your life and retire back to Manitoba or the prophecy goes unfulfilled

Yeah, I could see that happening.. unless I find a nice secluded cottage around Wakefield.. hopefully next to a ski slope.

[whatnext]

Originally Posted by alps

Smaller cities are stupidly expensive now too. I moved back to Halifax last year and I seriously regret it due to the housing situation. If I end up leaving Halifax (likely), I'm sure as hell not staying in Canada. The housing crisis is by design. Non-homeowners should consider emigrating.

Umm, and you’re in Hong Kong?

… Hong Kong was found to be the most expensive country to buy property, with a 2-bed flat costing an eye-watering £1.4 million – 7 times the global average. Hong Kong was the only country where a city centre flat would cost you more than £1 million on average….

Source: https://www.finder.com/uk/world-cost-of-a-flat - Finder UK

[OldDartmouthMark]

Originally Posted by alps

Smaller cities are stupidly expensive now too. I moved back to Halifax last year and I seriously regret it due to the housing situation. If I end up leaving Halifax (likely), I'm sure as hell not staying in Canada. The housing crisis is by design. Non-homeowners should consider emigrating.

Well, on the plus side, that would help alleviate the housing crisis...

[alps]

Originally Posted by whatnext

Umm, and you’re in Hong Kong?

… Hong Kong was found to be the most expensive country to buy property, with a 2-bed flat costing an eye-watering £1.4 million – 7 times the global average. Hong Kong was the only country where a city centre flat would cost you more than £1 million on average….

Source: https://www.finder.com/uk/world-cost-of-a-flat - Finder UK

I'm in Halifax now (after ten years in Hong Kong). It's much easier to rent an apartment in Hong Kong than in Halifax, where the residential vacancy rate currently sits at less than 1%. I pay the same in rent in Halifax as I did in Hong Kong, but the flat in Hong Kong was nicer. I have zero housing security here. My apartment is basically devoid of furniture because I know I'll need to move again. The landlord showed me the hundreds of messages he received when he advertised this unit – he could charge a lot more.

I attempted to buy a place in Halifax but my timing was comically bad (early 2022) and every place I tried for received 15-20 offers.

Halifax is already Plan B for me. I would have rather lived in a large city like Toronto. Younger people are told to move to smaller, more affordable places which I guess now means Saskatchewan (given the situation in Nova Scotia). It makes more sense to try to find a way to emigrate to a different country with a better quality of life, better weather, and adequate housing. Canada's housing crisis is a policy choice at the expense of non-homeowners. I don't see a decent future here, not for younger people of regular means. Unfortunately my father recently had a stroke so I will be here a while longer.

[kool maudit]

Well, I decided not to. And that decision, while not final in some irrevocable sense, will probably define a pretty important chunk of life.

Some of it came down to things specific to me and my situation, what I have built here in the Nordics and the like. Unfortunately, some of it came down to Toronto comparing negatively to Stockholm on certain quality-of-life metrics.

While the former weighed heavily, I would have preferred it had Toronto represented a tangible upgrade in at least one or two areas, but I don't really see it beyond the obvious upgrade of being "home" vs. being "foreign".

[P'tit Renard]

Originally Posted by kool maudit

Some of it came down to things specific to me and my situation, what I have built here in the Nordics and the like. Unfortunately, some of it came down to Toronto comparing negatively to Stockholm on certain quality-of-life metrics.

While the former weighed heavily, I would have preferred it had Toronto represented a tangible upgrade in at least one or two areas, but I don't really see it beyond the obvious upgrade of being "home" vs. being "foreign".

That's a very sound decision, one that you likely won't regret. I can't think of a worst time to move to Toronto in the last 3 decades than right now.

[Acajack]

.....

[Acajack]

Sweden of course has its own problems as well. It's no longer a "quasi-Switzerland" like it used to be.

But Peter Ustinov's Toronto as "New York run by the Swiss" sounds like a bad joke today.

When you consider uprooting a family, careers, etc., moving to Canada from Sweden in 2024 isn't really a step up up these days.

[kool maudit]

Originally Posted by Acajack

Sweden of course has its own problems as well.

This place is far from perfect, and even if it were, it wouldn't be fully aligned with my own ideal anyway. Nordics are our cousins but no closer.

That said, I think it will be somewhat easier to skirt the bads and enjoy the goods here vs. TO.

[giallo]

Originally Posted by kool maudit

Well, I decided not to. And that decision, while not final in some irrevocable sense, will probably define a pretty important chunk of life.

Some of it came down to things specific to me and my situation, what I have built here in the Nordics and the like. Unfortunately, some of it came down to Toronto comparing negatively to Stockholm on certain quality-of-life metrics.

While the former weighed heavily, I would have preferred it had Toronto represented a tangible upgrade in at least one or two areas, but I don't really see it beyond the obvious upgrade of being "home" vs. being "foreign".

Solid plan.

If I was still living abroad in 2024, and had the choice of whether to stay in Asia or come back, I would absolutely stay put as well.

I came back in late 2021, and things hadn't progressed to the point they are at today, so I got lucky. Coming to Canada right now (especially to Toronto or Vancouver) is kinda insane unless you've got an incredible support system or a high paying job lined up. Everything is so unbelievably expensive, and the country hasn't begun to fix the housing crisis or healthcare system. Hopefully, we'll see positive improvements in both in the next few years, but it's still pretty bleak at the moment.

[someone123]

Originally Posted by Acajack

When you consider uprooting a family, careers, etc., moving to Canada from Sweden in 2024 isn't really a step up up these days.

I don't know enough about Sweden to comment but Toronto is not really set up for expensive living in the way many European cities are. It's mostly car oriented and was designed in a era when middle class people were expected to have large houses and private outdoor space or even cottages and the like. I'm not a fan of places like Mississauga subdivisions but I'd much rather live in a house there with a yard and a car than in a basement apartment with only bus service.

There are nice inner parts of Toronto but because they're a small percentage of a large metro their prices will tend to be bid up very high. In this economy wealthy buyers (or just those with access to lots of credit; maybe that's ending now with interest rates up) will crowd out even a lot of high wage earners.

[niwell]

Originally Posted by kool maudit

Well, I decided not to. And that decision, while not final in some irrevocable sense, will probably define a pretty important chunk of life.

Some of it came down to things specific to me and my situation, what I have built here in the Nordics and the like. Unfortunately, some of it came down to Toronto comparing negatively to Stockholm on certain quality-of-life metrics.

While the former weighed heavily, I would have preferred it had Toronto represented a tangible upgrade in at least one or two areas, but I don't really see it beyond the obvious upgrade of being "home" vs. being "foreign".

Sorry to hear that, though you probably made the right decision. If you aren't already established in Toronto it's unfortunately a difficult time to get in. Particularly with the lifestyle I'm sure you were aiming for. Hopefully everything works out in Stockholm, and who knows what the future will hold!

[urbandreamer]

Kool Maudit, instead of focusing on Montreal and Toronto, you should've considered Vancouver Island. It feels more like 1980s Canada, minus the real estate prices.

Obviously Toronto isn't built like Montreal or Stockholm, but I was surprised by the density being built along Sheppard Avenue East all the way into Scarborough.

And then I explored the ugly new subdivisions going up in Stouffville; contrary to a coworker who said it's a sleepy old stock town, I found the shops packed with South Asians, Chinese and Caribbean Canadians, all run by low wage TFW. Many ugly high rise condo buildings under construction, really ugly new townhouses and SFH.

I've been watching this weird Dutch-Canadian family's YouTube channel, a typical rich farmer type from Ontario who's moved to Russia, which actually looks more appealing than much of Canada:
https://youtube.com/@countrysideacre...eztuEQISPAb4-B

Warning: like many Dutch Reformed/Mennonites, he's extremely intolerant of LGBTQ and essentially English Canadian secular society, but I suspect he's attracted to cheap land and especially $ in Russia.

I certainly knew of people like him and his family, being exposed to Conservative Christians growing up in 1980s Midwestern Ontario.