Chief William Commanda Bridge (former Prince of Wales Bridge)

[acottawa]

As there seems to be a lot of confusion, the railway discontinuance process is outlined here.

https://www.otc-cta.gc.ca/eng/proces...ine-operations

[OtrainUser]

Originally Posted by acottawa

You're misunderstanding the order of operations here.

If Ottawa wants to discontinue part of the line the line (presumably everything North of the station)

It files the appropriate notification.
Another railway or municipality has the option to buy the line (based on a specific formula for cost).
If another railway or municipality doesn't want the line, remaining tracks are pulled up for scrap (after the necessary procedures).
Since capital railways is no longer an inter-provincial railways, it can get a provincial license and no longer be under the jurisdiction of the CTA.

At no point does it have to repair the bridge under federal or provincial law.

This isn't rocket science, railways are abandoned all of the time.

I agree railways are abandoned all the time but then they are usually sold to the highest bidder who then can do anything they want with it.

[OtrainUser]

Originally Posted by acottawa

As there seems to be a lot of confusion, the railway discontinuance process is outlined here.

https://www.otc-cta.gc.ca/eng/proces...ine-operations

It would be nice if these laws were simpler that way there would be no confusion

[OtrainUser]

Originally Posted by Acajack

Well, it depends what you define as downtown to downtown, but STO's Planibus which shows schedules for all its routes shows the trip time from Promenade to Portage in Hull to the corner of Wellington and Bank in Ottawa is 8 minutes. I've taken it quite a few times and that sounds about right. Sometimes a few minutes more, and sometimes a few minutes faster even.

Im talking about Les Allumnetieres where there is no bus service outside of morning rush hour. You have many homes in that area plus condos and i find it stupid that STO would put a bunch of routes on prom du portage when its unnecessary. Route 400 should go down Les Allumnetieres to Montcalm station while leaving the other buses the way they are.

Doing this would save me 15 to 20 min in travel time every day

[acottawa]

Originally Posted by OtrainUser

I agree railways are abandoned all the time but then they are usually sold to the highest bidder who then can do anything they want with it.

All federal railway discontinuences follow the same procedure. I don't think they are ever sold to the highest bidder (by the time they are discontinued they usually have little or no commercial value). The land may be worth something after abandonment but those situations are probably pretty rare.

[OCCheetos]

Originally Posted by acottawa

All federal railway discontinuences follow the same procedure. I don't think they are ever sold to the highest bidder (by the time they are discontinued they usually have little or no commercial value). The land may be worth something after abandonment but those situations are probably pretty rare.

I don't think the owner can just decide to not sell it so long as reasonable negotiations took place on price and stuff. It would kind of defeat the purpose of the law which is to keep railways (a public good) in use.

[acottawa]

Originally Posted by OCCheetos

I don't think the owner can just decide to not sell it so long as reasonable negotiations took place on price and stuff. It would kind of defeat the purpose of the law which is to keep railways (a public good) in use.

Yes, that's right. If the city wanted to discontinue they would have to offer it up to other railways and then to municipalities and transit agencies before they can pull up the track.

[OtrainUser]

Originally Posted by OCCheetos

I don't think the owner can just decide to not sell it so long as reasonable negotiations took place on price and stuff. It would kind of defeat the purpose of the law which is to keep railways (a public good) in use.

Exactly

[OtrainUser]

Originally Posted by acottawa

Yes, that's right. If the city wanted to discontinue they would have to offer it up to other railways and then to municipalities and transit agencies before they can pull up the track.

Point is if the City decides to discontinue then MOOSE can make an offer to buy the track and the City can't say no unless MOOSE make a stupid lowball offer which we all know they won't do.

End result is then MOOSE buys the track and then they can proceed with their commuter rail plan.

[acottawa]

Originally Posted by OtrainUser

Point is if the City decides to discontinue then MOOSE can make an offer to buy the track and the City can't say no unless MOOSE make a stupid lowball offer which we all know they won't do.

End result is then MOOSE buys the track and then they can proceed with their commuter rail plan.

That would depend on Moose deciding that a few hundred metres of track (from Bayview station to the Quebec shore) are sufficient to operate a service. It would also depend on Moose being able to come up with the "net salvage value" to pay for the city as well as ongoing insurance, security and maintenance costs. Moose so far has been unable to come up with money for a feasibility in 7 years, so I doubt they have the cash on hand to buy and maintain a bridge.

[OCCheetos]

Originally Posted by acottawa

That would depend on Moose deciding that a few hundred metres of track (from Bayview station to the Quebec shore) are sufficient to operate a service. It would also depend on Moose being able to come up with the "net salvage value" to pay for the city as well as ongoing insurance, security and maintenance costs. Moose so far has been unable to come up with money for a feasibility in 7 years, so I doubt they have the cash on hand to buy and maintain a bridge.

That would depend on the city deciding to abandon the bridge, which it almost certainly won't.

[acottawa]

Originally Posted by OCCheetos

That would depend on the city deciding to abandon the bridge, which it almost certainly won't.

Well, we will find out by April 30.

[McC]

Originally Posted by OtrainUser

Point is if the City decides to discontinue then MOOSE can make an offer to buy the track and the City can't say no unless MOOSE make a stupid lowball offer which we all know they won't do.

A sale and a discontinuance are two distinct processes. There’s no such thing as a low ball offer in a discontinuance, the price is set by a formula to determine scrap value after the owner has declared its intention to discontinue the railway; if a buyer offers more then it becomes a sale, and there is no offering less, as that means there is no buyer and the line is discontinued.

[roger1818]

Originally Posted by OtrainUser

Im talking about Les Allumnetieres where there is no bus service outside of morning rush hour. You have many homes in that area plus condos and i find it stupid that STO would put a bunch of routes on prom du portage when its unnecessary. Route 400 should go down Les Allumnetieres to Montcalm station while leaving the other buses the way they are.

Doing this would save me 15 to 20 min in travel time every day

But we are talking about whether having an LRT shuttle across the POW bridge will save time for the average person despite the need for two transfers, not your special case. Route changes will always be more beneficial for some than others but when talking about replacing all buses across the river with a train, we need to look at the big picture, not special cases.

[Kitchissippi]

So, in the highly unlikely situation where MOOSE or anyone buys the bridge, the city can easily say, "We intend to run the Trillium Line across, get it ready in 12 months."

[acottawa]

Originally Posted by roger1818

But we are talking about whether having an LRT shuttle across the POW bridge will save time for the average person despite the need for two transfers, not your special case. Route changes will always be more beneficial for some than others but when talking about replacing all buses across the river with a train, we need to look at the big picture, not special cases.

I'm not sure the way transit in the city is currently configured this hypothetical train would save time for anyone, except maybe UQAQ students who live in Ontario (which I assume is a pretty small number because of the huge tuition increase that would involve).

In addition to the two transfers, Bayview and Taché are both closer to their respective downtowns than they are to each other. Frequencies would be pretty limited (like Carleton under the original o-train configuration, a train couldn't leave Bayview until another returned).

The only way it might make sense is if the Trillium Line and Rapibus were upgraded to the same technology and the combined line was used as a N-S trunk throughout the region. But in that scenario, a single track bridge would need to be replaced anyway.

[roger1818]

Originally Posted by acottawa

I'm not sure the way transit in the city is currently configured this hypothetical train would save time for anyone, except maybe UQAQ students who live in Ontario (which I assume is a pretty small number because of the huge tuition increase that would involve).

I guess it would all depend where the terminating station would be on the Quebec side. The way I see it there are three options:

1. Taché-UQO,
2. Station Montcalm,
3. Terrasses de la Chaudière

The first option is the one would be cheapest, but wouldn't be very helpful.
The second would provide a decent transfer for those using the Rapibus to/from old Gatineau.
The third would be decent for those in western Ottawa going to Hull.

In the short term, a better option overall would be to upgrade the POW bridge to allow buses to use it. They could do like the STO did with the Rapibus bridge over the Gatineau River and keep the tracks on it so that the bridge doesn't need to be decommissioned as shown below:



(see Rapibus excursion – along the line, including a one way bridge)

[OCCheetos]

Just a though, but consider the possible scenario where the city decides to apply for discontinuation of the PoW bridge section of the line and MOOSE ends up obtaining the bridge:

Even if the city went and applied for a provincial rail license, wouldn't the only thing that would do is make the Trillium line a provincial railway running on federally regulated rails?

[Truenorth00]

What would be the consequence of Moose getting the bridge? Capital Railways still has no obligation to accommodate them on the Trillium Line corridor.

[OCCheetos]

Originally Posted by Truenorth00

What would be the consequence of Moose getting the bridge? Capital Railways still has no obligation to accommodate them on the Trillium Line corridor.

Being federally regulated means that they do. (regardless of whether MOOSE has the bridge or not).