James Beard Public Market | Proposed - Page 16

PDXDENSITY · #**301** Posted **Dec 11, 2014, 2:40 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by maccoinnich

Just wanted to remind people that the public forum is at OMSI, this Saturday, 2pm-5pm. Project team speaking at 2:30.

A question: Why don't they ever make a livestream for these types of events? I would be able to watch remotely, but not be present in person.

zilfondel · #**302** Posted **Dec 11, 2014, 7:57 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by maccoinnich

Just wanted to remind people that the public forum is at OMSI, this Saturday, 2pm-5pm. Project team speaking at 2:30.

Yep, its on my calendar. I am definitely attending!

PDXDENSITY · #**303** Posted **Dec 14, 2014, 12:46 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by maccoinnich

Just wanted to remind people that the public forum is at OMSI, this Saturday, 2pm-5pm. Project team speaking at 2:30.

I'm interested how this went; couldn't attend.

zilfondel · #**304** Posted **Dec 14, 2014, 1:14 AM**

I went. It was pretty interesting, but it was basically an introduction of Snohetta to the public and some public outreach comment tables. Interestingly, the head of Snohetta, Craig Dykers, told me he has been coming to Portland for the past 30+ years and has been involved in some design projects dating back in the 1980's. Being well versed with the city, I think makes him and Snohetta a great fit for an international collaboration.

urbanlife · #**305** Posted **Dec 14, 2014, 5:45 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by zilfondel

I went. It was pretty interesting, but it was basically an introduction of Snohetta to the public and some public outreach comment tables. Interestingly, the head of Snohetta, Craig Dykers, told me he has been coming to Portland for the past 30+ years and has been involved in some design projects dating back in the 1980's. Being well versed with the city, I think makes him and Snohetta a great fit for an international collaboration.

Wow, I didn't know that. That makes me feel like they might be the best choice for this project. I really can't wait to see what they design, I think about the possibilities every time I drive over the Morrison Bridge.

bvpcvm · #**306** Posted **Dec 17, 2014, 3:40 AM**

I hope this succeeds. And I'd love to see those three lots at the end of the bridge removed.

But I just have some doubts that this is the right place. I'm going to say this again, even though I've been roundly criticized for it before: if we want a market to succeed, put it on the block next to the Galleria.

It comes down to this: aside from tourists, people will be buying food here on foot, or on their way to transport, after work, on their way home. Yes, the Morrison Bridge location is on the MAX line, but that area of town is just sketchy enough that if people have to go down there and THEN, for example, walk back up to the streetcar, I think they'll go there less often. Sure, summer will be one thing. And for people heading east on MAX it might work. But heading west? On a rainy December night? A lot of people will say "no thank you".

The Galleria site is on the Streetcar line, a block from the MAX, next to Target, and on the way towards Powell's, the Pearl, etc. The Morrison site is on the way to, well, Waterfront Park. You could say it's on the way to Old Town nightlife, I guess, but who buys broccoli and takes it with them to the club? Yes, obviously, the Morrison site, if it's a success from the start and business fills in around it, may stimulate the revival of a whole new part of downtown, but until it does, this market will be on its own.

zilfondel · #**307** Posted **Dec 17, 2014, 5:48 AM**

I think their train of thought is that it will become a destination, inasmuch as Pike's Place in Seattle and Granville Island in Vancouver are both relatively out-of-the-way (or were when built), and should attract enough foot traffic and patronage to succeed.

However, I don't disagree with you. It's certainly a gamble, and I hope it succeed spectacularly. Would be nice to have other food options in town besides big-box Fred Meyer.

urbanlife · #**308** Posted **Dec 17, 2014, 6:47 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by zilfondel

I think their train of thought is that it will become a destination, inasmuch as Pike's Place in Seattle and Granville Island in Vancouver are both relatively out-of-the-way (or were when built), and should attract enough foot traffic and patronage to succeed.

However, I don't disagree with you. It's certainly a gamble, and I hope it succeed spectacularly. Would be nice to have other food options in town besides big-box Fred Meyer.

I feel like this is a great high profile location for this market which will make it a destination location. Much like Saturday Market, which is out of the way for most people but still draws a huge crowd every weekend.

Depending on how this market functions and the types of vendors it has, it could easily attract more foot traffic to that part of downtown.

davehogan · #**309** Posted **Dec 17, 2014, 7:44 AM**

Why not just raise the height limit AND leave the ramps in place?

urbanlife · #**310** Posted **Dec 17, 2014, 8:06 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by davehogan

Why not just raise the height limit AND leave the ramps in place?

Because this isn't a height issue. The ramps only give access to one side of the blocks, and there is little need for the ramps that are consuming two city blocks downtown.

2oh1 · #**311** Posted **Dec 17, 2014, 9:18 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by bvpcvm

But I just have some doubts that this is the right place. I'm going to say this again, even though I've been roundly criticized for it before: if we want a market to succeed, put it on the block next to the Galleria.

I agree that would be a fantastic spot - but is it big enough? I don't think so.

Quote:

Originally Posted by zilfondel

I think their train of thought is that it will become a destination, inasmuch as Pike's Place in Seattle and Granville Island in Vancouver are both relatively out-of-the-way (or were when built), and should attract enough foot traffic and patronage to succeed.

However, I don't disagree with you. It's certainly a gamble, and I hope it succeed spectacularly

My thoughts exactly. Imagine if Saturday Market didn't exist and someone came along and proposed putting it under the Burnside Bridge. It'd be easy to say "There? Really?" But it worked and it became a destination. Granted, that's an entirely different situation, but still.

There are definitely risks, but I think they're risks worth taking.

zilfondel · #**312** Posted **Dec 18, 2014, 9:35 PM**

At the public open house, there were a lot of comments from the public, the Public Market design folks, and a few random architects about the parking ramps. Some people were calling for them to be removed, some people thought they should stay (a minority), and the design team mentioned that they were thinking about repurposing them - either for garden space, bike parking (and connection to the Morrison Bridge, to give cyclists on the East Side easy access to the market) or other unexplored ideas.

I trust Snohetta to fully take advantage of the high drama that the unusual geometry and traffic the site brings to the table.

tworivers · #**313** Posted **Dec 18, 2014, 11:53 PM**

I've thought for years that it could be cool (and likely highly controversial) to use parts of Waterfront Park for public amenities like this. I fantasize about a contemporary art museum sometimes...

Too bad they demolished the old market building decades ago...

The park just seems underutilized to me (other than joggers and the homeless) and having more dynamic programming might activate the other side of Naito as well. In this case, I could see Snohetta making good use of the park right across from the market site. Even a large garden area with a stand-alone restaurant or something...

hat · #**314** Posted **Dec 19, 2014, 12:14 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by tworivers

I've thought for years that it could be cool (and likely highly controversial) to use parts of Waterfront Park for public amenities like this. I fantasize about a contemporary art museum sometimes...

Too bad they demolished the old market building decades ago...

The park just seems underutilized to me (other than joggers and the homeless) and having more dynamic programming might activate the other side of Naito as well. In this case, I could see Snohetta making good use of the park right across from the market site. Even a large garden area with a stand-alone restaurant or something...

I'd agree to some extent. Although we must be thankful that this is not what we're dealing with today. Waterfront park is pretty awesome in comparison. On the other hand, if people can remove Harbor Drive, then we can remove I-5 as well.

urbanlife · #**315** Posted **Dec 19, 2014, 12:29 AM**

It would be awesome to have something like this from Snohetta, something where the structure itself spanned over Naito and worked its architecture into the waterfront park giving the city an amazing centerpiece.

PDXDENSITY · #**316** Posted **Dec 19, 2014, 1:22 AM**

The Oslo Opera is beautiful. I think they will have a hard time outdoing themselves. Either way, Portland will get a good structure. I just really wish the height restrictions could be abolished for this project. Even an observation deck to say 800' would be iconic at that location. I know I would pay monthly to go atop it and take pictures. There's so much possibility at that site that is still being held back. Either way, I'll be happy to have something-- a lot of the time that seems to be the way it goes in Portland. At least it's something!

2oh1 · #**317** Posted **Dec 19, 2014, 2:10 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by PDXDENSITY

The Oslo Opera is beautiful. I think they will have a hard time outdoing themselves. Either way, Portland will get a good structure. I just really wish the height restrictions could be abolished for this project. Even an observation deck to say 800' would be iconic at that location. I know I would pay monthly to go atop it and take pictures. There's so much possibility at that site that is still being held back. Either way, I'll be happy to have something-- a lot of the time that seems to be the way it goes in Portland. At least it's something!

This. This. A million times THIS. This location would be perfect for something truly iconic - not just gorgeous from the ground, but iconic from a distance in a way that would define the Portland skyline. That's one heck of a challenge, and who knows if it's even a consideration here, but a guy can dream.

nxnw · #**318** Posted **Dec 19, 2014, 3:52 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by 2oh1

This. This. A million times THIS. This location would be perfect for something truly iconic - not just gorgeous from the ground, but iconic from a distance in a way that would define the Portland skyline. That's one heck of a challenge, and who knows if it's even a consideration here, but a guy can dream.

Something like this?

PDXDENSITY · #**319** Posted **Dec 19, 2014, 5:45 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by nxnw

Something like this?

I've seen that before, and it's a neat design. It does feel a little unsophisticated to me, but that's my taste. It would be great to have some kind of structure with an observation tower. Incorporating wind/solar energy would be pretty neat, too. Maybe in a subtle and interesting way.

2oh1 · #**320** Posted **Dec 19, 2014, 7:47 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by nxnw

Something like this?

I hadn't seen that before. Where's it from?