London Roads

[Pimpmasterdac]

Originally Posted by Wharn

Make no mistake, Fontana's a moron. He certainly doesn't understand urban economics or even basic planning principles. Given that the city has plans to ultimately upgrade the whole road to a freeway (which he has supported), building a parclo right now is nothing more than counter-productive. That being said, he's still a much better fit for the job than the bubblehead we had for the past decade.

To be fair Fontana probably doesn't know much about highway staging & planning, or difference between a parclo and stack interchanges. If VMP were a freeway already I'm sure it would be a noticeable feature and would warrant it being free-flowing. Know how London operates, when (if) VMP becomes a full freeway, only then people will realize this short-sighted view and need to correct at a greater cost than the ~$35 million to upgrade it.

I agree, it would be more beneficial to make interchanges on the VMP in town, than upgrade the Trumpet at the end of town. More people would have pratical use of it and would get traffic moving more efficiently.

I am definitely in favour of creating a free-flowing interchange over a Parclo, the one that hijackey proposes is similar, though not as complex with subway overpasses and collector-express interchanges, as the 401 & Allen (ie. Spadina Expressway) which in today's economy would prolly get you most of the VMP interchanges built

[haljackey]

Ok every day on my commute I drive through Wonderland and Bradley.

It angers me every time I see that Bradley Avenue street sign on Wonderland. Why label it if it's just a stub on both sides? Unless you want to get to the Westmount Library, A&W or the Athletic Club there's no use for it.

It frustrates me that Bradley still hasn't been extended to Wonderland. It would take a lot of strain off the clogged 2-lane Southdale. Yesterday I was on Southdale and a pair of buses (the Wonderland and Warncliffe) both made stops between Warncliffe and Wonderland and completely choked westbound traffic along this entire stretch. At least build some sidewalks and bus bays!

[MrSlippery519]

Originally Posted by haljackey

Ok every day on my commute I drive through Wonderland and Bradley.

It angers me every time I see that Bradley Avenue street sign on Wonderland. Why label it if it's just a stub on both sides? Unless you want to get to the Westmount Library, A&W or the Athletic Club there's no use for it.

It frustrates me that Bradley still hasn't been extended to Wonderland. It would take a lot of strain off the clogged 2-lane Southdale. Yesterday I was on Southdale and a pair of buses (the Wonderland and Warncliffe) both made stops between Warncliffe and Wonderland and completely choked westbound traffic along this entire stretch. At least build some sidewalks and bus bays!

No kidding, I work just south of the fake Brady sign and it pisses me off it's taking them so long. I would take that road home and to work every day as I live in the east end.

[haljackey]

...And it's not like there's a major blockade in the way. No water systems, no development, no nothing.

The land is flat so grading won't take much work at all. Just get a few shovels in the ground and top it with asphalt.

[Simpseatles]

I suspect that they are waiting to build that section of Bradley untill the new subdivisions around there absolutely warrant its construction. And any further extension of Bradley will be at the whim of the developments around it. If the part between Wharncliffe and Wonderland is built, it may just be a stub used for the subdivision and plazas, as the section immediatly after White Oak rd. could be built at a completely different time. I think it's more about meeting the needs of those new developments, than actually building one cohesive, necessary transportation link for all residents.

[MrSlippery519]

Originally Posted by Simpseatles

I suspect that they are waiting to build that section of Bradley untill the new subdivisions around there absolutely warrant its construction. And any further extension of Bradley will be at the whim of the developments around it. If the part between Wharncliffe and Wonderland is built, it may just be a stub used for the subdivision and plazas, as the section immediatly after White Oak rd. could be built at a completely different time. I think it's more about meeting the needs of those new developments, than actually building one cohesive, necessary transportation link for all residents.

You might be onto something, it's beyond me why the city does not look at it and think..."how would adding a 4 lane road that goes from the east end to the west end help improve traffic flow"

I just do not get it, also as haljackey said there is literally nothing stopping them you can stand at Wonderland and look east, it's flat and free of anything stopping this from happening.

[manny_santos]

Originally Posted by MrSlippery519

You might be onto something, it's beyond me why the city does not look at it and think..."how would adding a 4 lane road that goes from the east end to the west end help improve traffic flow"

I just do not get it, also as haljackey said there is literally nothing stopping them you can stand at Wonderland and look east, it's flat and free of anything stopping this from happening.

Extending Bradley now would alleviate some congestion on Southdale, meaning they could delay widening by several years. I would speculate the Bradley extension would cost significantly less than widening Southdale, both in terms of financial cost and the disruption to traffic flow on Southdale.

[ForestryW]

According to the city's 2004 transportation master plan Bradley is expected to be extended by 2014, so they are still on schedule.

Has the Wharncliffe Rd. underpass beneath the CN line at Horton St been widened yet? According to the TMP it was supposed to be completed by 2009.

[MolsonExport]

^nope. Not at all.

[haljackey]

Both rail overpasses on Warncliffe Road are major congestion points. At least the CN one is 3 lanes allowing slightly more traffic to be pushed through (2 southbound lanes, 1 northbound), but the CP one is a problem.

The asphalt under CN overrpass was recently resurfaced which tells me nothing will happen here any time soon. The CP overpass is projected to get replaced in 2020, but it will probably be later than that knowing this city's reputation when it comes to widening roads...

[Pimpmasterdac]

Especially since both those rail crossings would touch the third rails of road expansion in London. CN & CP would have to throw in some money which they loath to do, look how long Hale & Trafalgar overpass took to do, Sarina finally after decades.

As well both crossings require significant property expropriation to make Wharncliffe/Western Road at least 4 lanes the full length. London's still pussyfooting around with Commissioners & Southdale widening because they're scared of offending property owners. I don't see them growing a pair with the rail crossings.

They need to do all these NOW! Though Fontana & Co. seem to use all their political & financial capital on 401 interchanges, while useful doesn't help Londoners on their day to day commutes.

[Kokkei Mizu]

Railways don't need to throw as much money into crossings as you may think. Usually level crossings are the responsibility of the railways, but most bridges and underpasses are usually (not 100% sure) maintained by the city. Even so, if the city wants to widen the underpass, or bridge, that doesn't effect the railway except to delay trains during construction. So from the railway's point of view, they don't want to throw money at these types of widening.

Now, if CP wants to expand their line to two tracks through London (which might happen eventually, as that was one of the things that held back the Sarnia Road bridge construction), they would have a cause to spend some money to redo underpasses or bridges.

Still, railways usually don't pay as much as the city or higher levels of governments pay. If the city wants to widen a road, that's their problem, not the railway's.

[Wharn]

Originally Posted by Kokkei Mizu

Still, railways usually don't pay as much as the city or higher levels of governments pay. If the city wants to widen a road, that's their problem, not the railway's.

I think that analysis is a little unfair. The railway, by not being made to fully realize the economic costs of keeping their existing crossings (traffic congestion resulting from bottlenecks), is essentially imposing a negative externality on the rest of the city.

Were they granted the authority to do so, it would be just for the city to charge an annual tax on overpasses and level crossings that are found to be traffic bottlenecks. This would give CN and CP an added incentive to update their infrastructure, or it could be used by the city to fund the upgrades should the railways choose not to do so on their own dime.

[Pimpmasterdac]

Railway companies are suppose to contribute at least 15% of the cost of expansions/overpasses according to federal law. That's a bare minimum, let alone what these crossing do to screw over the traffic flow in London.

I honestly wish the London actually played hardball with these railway companies, told them we're going to expand CN or CP rail crossings with or without their consent. I'm sure at C overpass on Wharncliffe if the city called them out and said they'd either expand the 1 track and get the 15% or you pitch in more to upgrade it 2 tracks, it would put CP in a pressure cooker to actually pay their share if not more.

But the City of London doesn't like to rock the boat or do anything that would cause as /A\ News would call "controversy", and lets railway companies that holding London back continue to get off the hook. London should set a date, start the expropriation and get on with alleviating congestion on these arteries!

[haljackey]

Gah I hate this. Finish up already.

[K85]

If you hit those bumps fast enough driving towards downtown, your car bounces like a see-saw. Pretty fun, until I scrapped by front then back... going 70 is NOT advised

[Wharn]

Originally Posted by K85

If you hit those bumps fast enough driving towards downtown, your car bounces like a see-saw. Pretty fun, until I scrapped by front then back... going 70 is NOT advised

I wouldn't be doing 70 down Dundas even if there was no construction. Some parts of the road are in awful shape, there are usually cops, and there are always dazed and careless pedestrians wandering out from between cars.

[haljackey]

Yeah I rarely get above 40 on Dundas between Ridout and Colbourne.

[ForestryW]

I don't know why I'm just noticing this but I actually really like the podium of those twin apartment towers on the right (City Place is it?)

Too bad the towers don't match the podium.

[Blitz]

The towers are nice places to live and are well kept - I live in the east tower. Just wish I could open my windows these days without hearing all the construction noise on Dundas.