CFL in the Maritimes

[isaidso]

Originally Posted by Nathan

I don't think that would happen. Oddly enough, so far this year Saskatchewan has been Toronto's biggest draw (bigger than the first time Hamilton was there too, which to me is surprising). They wouldn't be taking one of the bigger draws out of Toronto. Would be cool, but wouldn't happen in my opinion. The Toronto owners probably wouldn't agree to forgoing that revenue.

I imagine that Saskatchewan is a big draw everywhere in Canada. You may be right about Toronto not wanting to lose a Saskatchewan game at Skydome. With Edmonton hosting the Grey Cup next year, maybe it won't be them either. That leaves Calgary or BC in the west, and they already said it would probably be a western team facing the Argonauts.

In the end, it will sell out no matter who plays.

[kirjtc2]

MacKay sees CFL team in Moncton's future
Published Friday October 16th, 2009
A3Adam Huras
Telegraph-Journal

MONCTON - The Toronto Argonauts will call Moncton home for a day when the Canadian Football League plays its first regular-season game in Atlantic Canada next September.

CFL commissioner Mark Cohon announced Thursday what is being called a mini-Grey Cup, complete with a weekend of celebrations. He then skirted questions about whether the single game may lead to a Moncton franchise.

Instead, it was a federal minister from Nova Scotia who insisted a Moncton team will eventually make the CFL a truly Canadian, coast-to-coast league.

Peter MacKay, the minister of national defence and the Atlantic Gateway, was in fact the only politician to voluntarily bring up the idea.

"It was clear that is was the place for the league to look for expansion in the future," Mackay said from the podium.

"There is a tremendous interest for this Canadian Football League to encompass the entire country, so this is an important day in many ways beyond the single game in September."

In a quiet corner after the announcement, MacKay recounted the Grey Cup ritual he goes through every year with his hometown buddies.

"We get together the day before the game, no matter where we are, and play," he said. "We're always sore and beat up the day of the game.

"Actually I talked to the commissioner and hopefully we can play the game on the field in Calgary this year before the Grey Cup game the next day."

Before leaving the announcement he handed Cohon a CFL football and asked him to sign it for the crew of the HMCS Fredericton, which sets sail on a new foreign mission later this week.

"Maybe they can throw it around on the ship," he said.

MacKay announced that the federal government would invest $800,000 in the event through the Atlantic Canada Opportunities Agency to showcase Moncton and Atlantic Canada's capacity to host major sporting events.

"I think there are a number of companies and individuals who have the capability to do that," MacKay said. "I think it would be wonderful for the league to have a truly national league.

"Next year's game might be the impetus for that (expansion)."

Cohon had previously said that federal money was the only piece of the puzzle remaining to make a regular season football game a reality.

New Brunswick has been engaged talks with the CFL about a team in the province as far back as the 1980s.

The province invested in Moncton's outdoor arena - with a capacity of up to 20,000 spectators - built on the Université de Moncton campus to welcome the world junior championships in track and field next year.

It gave another $700,000 Thursday toward marketing and venue infrastructure in bringing the CFL game to the stadium, an event which is expected to bring add $4 million to Moncton's economy.

"This is a call to action to Atlantic Canadians to come out, to support this event," Graham said. "This is going to be the first test."

While the Argos were confirmed as the home team Thursday, the opponent will not be announced until the league's schedule is be released in early 2010.

Ticket prices will also be announced at a later date.

"This is the first step," Cohon said. "We would like to see a multi-year commitment and we will be sitting down in 2010 with all levels of government.

To questions of a franchise he said: "That's putting the cart before the horse."

[CFL-EXPANDER]

Pssss......... The Blue Bombers are going east!!!!!!!!

You heard it here first, Friday night, TSN Wendy's Friday night CFL

[isaidso]

I was hoping for a western conference team.

[q12]

From the Times & Transcript

Metro CFL game grows
Published Friday October 16th, 2009

Like most successful people who find themselves standing at a podium facing a room full of people, CFL Commissioner Mark Cohon led with a joke yesterday as he officially announced the Toronto Argonauts would play a home game in Moncton next September.

Minister of National Defence Peter MacKay goes on the offence with a pass to Premier Shawn Graham at a press conference announcing a regular season CFL game will be played in Moncton next fall.

"Did anybody know about this?" he asked those gathered at the Legends restaurant in the Moncton Coliseum Complex.

Indeed, though that and more had leaked out in the previous few weeks, it did nothing to diminish local enthusiasm for a game that many hope will be just the beginning of bigger things between Atlantic Canada and the CFL.

And there were still some new details to tell, including the fact the CFL's oldest franchise and the league are making plans to leave a legacy for local amateur football with next year's game, and that the federal and provincial governments are investing $1.5 million in the football weekend being planned.

The events leading up to what's expected to be a Sunday afternoon game against a Western Canadian opponent still to be determined will likely include a high school football game under the Friday night lights at the stadium, and an AUS match-up the next night, as well as a fundraising gala for local football and a street party.

In a hint of the regional thinking that's going into the planning, Defence Minister Peter MacKay, the minister responsible for the Atlantic Gateway, let it slip that the high school game would likely see a Halifax area football team play against a Moncton area team.

While there's no doubt the game would stir some rivalry between Atlantic Canada's two dominant metropolitan areas, no one was spouting "us versus them" rhetoric yesterday. Instead, no one's comments yesterday reflected how the CFL would benefit the whole Atlantic region better than MacKay's.

Another BS statement from this newspaper, How about the 2 St. John's ones bigger and the other is the same size.

The fact the Conservative cabinet minister and Liberal Premier Shawn Graham worked so closely on making all this a reality spoke volumes about MacKay's seeing the big picture value of the whole enterprise, not the least of which is the anticipated $4 million in economic spinoffs from just this one weekend of football.

When asked if yesterday's show of support for Moncton could hurt him back in his Nova Scotia riding, he said, "not at all. Actually, Pictou County is just as close to Moncton as it is to Halifax, so I think you're going to see fans coming from my neck of the woods to this game."

MacKay was also the person most willing to talk CFL expansion yesterday. He said if there was a team "that drew upon all four provinces, that was able to centrally locate and bring fans from the entire region, then yes, I think it is viable."

Mackay is Stephen Harper's *****

He added however, "we would need a private sector partner. We would need someone who was willing to commit to come in and start that groundswell of support."

Commissioner Cohon was more cautious yesterday. In a meeting with the Times & Transcript's editorial board yesterday morning before the press conference, he said for the time being, all of this was simply about bringing the first major league game in any sport to the Atlantic region, and making the nation's largest sports league truly one that went coast to coast.

"It's not about expansion, not right now," he warned, saying the league has its sights set on a return to Ottawa by 2013 first.


Well the T & T asked and Mark Cohen told them the truth. He has no interest in expansion anytime soon out here and is hinting that Moncton would not be his first choice in Atlantic Canada for an expansion team anyways.
One Word, Burned. Overhyped has been an understatement.

Also the CFL is not Major League and this is not the first Major League game in Atlantic Canada. Halifax hosted NHL REGULAR SEASON GAMES in the 90's. I went to see the New York Rangers play the Devils and Capitals at the metro centre for regular season neutral site games. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Halifax_Metro_Centre

However, the first forays into becoming a part of Moncton's community fabric are happening with yesterday's announcement.

Cohon praised the personal efforts of Premier Graham in making things happen and said, "his vision of making Moncton the entertainment capital of the Maritimes fits in perfectly with our vision of bringing the league out to Atlantic Canada."

There's a chance of course the commissioner's warm feelings for the premier merely stem from the fact that Graham was just about the only person yesterday who consistently pronounced Cohon's surname correctly, which sounds like "Co-hon" rather than "Cohen."

But kidding aside, Cohon had plenty of praise for the rest of the region's team, singling out Mayor George LeBlanc, the City of Moncton team led by Ian Fowler, and the federal efforts of Peter MacKay.

On MacKay's leadership, Cohon said, "Number one, he's a booster of the region. Two, he's a huge football fan. And three, he knew it would be good for the region."

At the press conference later, Cohon said the enthusiasm reminded him of being in Saskatchewan, where people are famously passionate about their Roughriders, own shares in the team, and travel from across a huge geographic areas to get to games in Regina. Many have said that's the same sort of spirit the CFL would find with a Moncton-centred team, where like Saskatchewan, there are no competing major league sports. He shared a taste of that spirit when he recounted talking to Moncton Mayor George LeBlanc about next year's game.

"I said, 'this would be a lot like a mini Grey Cup weekend,' and he got offended," a smiling Cohon told the audience of LeBlanc's reaction.

"He said, 'what do you mean, mini?'"

Toronto Argonauts president and CEO Bob Nicholson, who is determined to win over Maritime fans in the next year so that the really come to think of Toronto as their home team too, said he liked what he heard.

"We're captivated by this idea of a mini Grey Cup, so next year we can play in two Grey Cups," he said

[isaidso]

I live in Toronto, but I'd fly down for the game if I can get my hands on some tickets. When do tickets go on sale? Maybe I can buy some at the Skydome?

[mylesmalley]

I know it's bad form to quote oneself, but...

Originally Posted by mylesmalley

You guys are all letting the delusional ravings of a few Times and Transcript 'columnists' whip up a firestorm about a complete non-issue.

dude, let it go. The Transcript is a rag. Finding mistakes in it is practically a sport in itself. You'd be hard pressed to find a single article that doesn't misquote, mis-state, mislead, or just lie about something. They're especially bad with statistics. And when it comes to local, regional or national history, well.... nuff said.

The CFL executives are obviously master marketers, and they're using the Transcript for stupid amounts of free publicity. That's really all it is. There's nothing more to it.

[fenwick16]

How about something like this in Halifax:


The proposed new Winnipeg Blue Bombers Stadium would be good for the rainy Halifax weather. Except why not completely cover the playing field and side stands and just keep the end zones open. It would be good for concerts also, and it would be more of an open air stadium than a dome.

If Moncton/New Brunswick can get the Irvings as owners and Halifax/Nova Scotia can get the Sobeys as owners then both could have CFL teams.

[MonctonRad]

I don't like the idea of watching football in a dome........the Big Owe and the Skydome (Rogers Centre) were not meant for football.

Football is meant to be watched wearing a touque, mittens and mucklucks.....and with your knees covered by a warm blanket. A thermos filled with hot chocolate (or perhaps something a little stronger) also helps.

It's the Canadian way.......

[fenwick16]

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

I don't like the idea of watching football in a dome........the Big Owe and the Skydome (Rogers Centre) were not meant for football.

Football is meant to be watched wearing a touque, mittens and mucklucks.....and with your knees covered by a warm blanket. A thermos filled with hot chocolate (or perhaps something a little stronger) also helps.

It's the Canadian way.......

I don't like domes either. That is the good thing about the proposed Blue Bombers stadium. People can still be cold and drink a thermos of chocolate, but not also be wet and risk getting pneumonia.

With regards to the argument about rather or not the maritime provinces can support CFL teams; just look at major junior hockey. For many decades the maritime provinces were without a team. Now look at the positive effect of maritime teams in the Quebec Major Junior Hockey League. I think one or two maritime teams could have a similar effect on the CFL. There are a lot of ex-maritimers (and people with various links to the maritimes) in the rest of Canada who would attend teams in Toronto, Calgary and Edmonton.

[CFL-EXPANDER]

Some bad news for YOU, your not allowed to bring food and drink into the stadium for a CFL game. Sorry no thermos of hot chocolate or something stronger. I've been to all three cover stadiums in Canada, they all have their own feel. Been to games out doors with the wind blowing 65mph raining not fun even for the die heart fan. Remember any stadium to not be a white elephant and a tax burden needs to be used more then just 10 games a season, dome allows this. And in the Maritimes the weather sucks OCT to March. Think real........

[Nathan]

Originally Posted by CFL-EXPANDER

Some bad news for YOU, your not allowed to bring food and drink into the stadium for a CFL game. Sorry no thermos of hot chocolate or something stronger. I've been to all three cover stadiums in Canada, they all have their own feel. Been to games out doors with the wind blowing 65mph raining not fun even for the die heart fan. Remember any stadium to not be a white elephant and a tax burden needs to be used more then just 10 games a season, dome allows this. And in the Maritimes the weather sucks OCT to March. Think real........

Come to a game in Regina then. I've never had problems carrying in a bottle of water and sunflower seeds/other snacks in the summer, or hot chocolate in the autumn. At most, the security will ask you to open the drink and they'll take a whiff to see if they can detect alcohol (that is the one thing they do try to prevent coming in, although they aren't always successful). They'd have HUGE backlash if they started to stop people from bringing anything in with them. It wouldn't be pretty.

As as for the weather part, I can entirely agree. I've had season tickets for the Riders since I was 7, but the last few years the weather has been ridiculous. It seems that the week will be awesome, then weekend time comes, gameday arrives, and it's windy and rainy. Kind of getting sick of it; we still have fun, but I'm definitely starting to lean more on a dome than open air stadium (especially if they go with the retractable option).

[fenwick16]

A domed stadium will almost certainly become a white elephant. The Skydome in Toronto, even with 6 million people to draw from, has had very serious financial problems (reference: Wikipedia below):

Financial problems and fallout
The SkyDome logo (1989-2005).

The stadium would later become a thorn in the side of David Peterson's Ontario Liberal government for its overspending in the venture. The Ontario Liberal Party was defeated by the Ontario New Democratic Party in the 1990 Ontario election. A review by the new Bob Rae government in October 1990 revealed that the stadium was so in debt that it would have to be booked 600 days a year to turn a profit. The stadium had only made $17 million in its first year of operations, while servicing the debt was costing $40 million. It was determined that the abrupt late inclusion by Stadco of a luxurious hotel and health club added an additional $112 million to the cost of the building.

As the Province slipped into a recession, Bob Rae appointed University of Toronto professor Bruce Kidd and Bob White (then president of the Canadian Auto Workers) to the Stadco board to help deal with the stadium's growing debt. But by this time it was too late to reverse the costs. The completed stadium started life with a $165 million debt that ballooned to $400 million by 1993. The stadium became a huge liability to the Provincial Government, and as the economy soured, so did public support for the so-called "white elephant". In March 1994, Bob Rae's Ontario NDP government paid off all outstanding debts from the Provincial treasury, and sold the stadium for the massively discounted price of $151 million to a private consortium (including Labatt's parent company – Interbrew).[citation needed]

In November 1998, the stadium filed for bankruptcy protection. One of the main reasons was that most of the Skybox contracts were up for renewal. Most of the 161 Skybox tenants had signed on for 10 year leases; this oversight in business planning, and a marked decrease in interest in the stadium's two sports teams, resulted in a massive decrease in the amount companies were willing to pay for the Skybox. In addition, the Air Canada Centre was under construction just down the road, and selling highly desired boxes for the civic favourite Toronto Maple Leafs and new upstart Toronto Raptors. Many companies could not justify owning box suites at both stadiums. That same month, the Blue Jays re-signed on for an additional ten years in the facility.[citation needed]

In late 1998, Sportsco International LP bought the stadium out of bankruptcy protection for $85 million.
[edit] Purchase by Rogers Communications and renaming to Rogers Centre
The Rogers Centre logo is large enough to be seen for several kilometres.

In 2004, Rogers Communications, parent company of the Blue Jays, acquired SkyDome from Sportsco for about $25 million – about 4% of the cost of construction.

(source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rogers_Centre )

The GM Place in Vancouver reportedly operates at a loss of $4,000,000 a year in spite of having 200 events per year ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BC_Place ).

I think that the biggest challenge will be in designing a basic stadium, with the maximum number of covered seats, in order to keep the yearly operating losses to a minimum. Otherwise building a stadium in Halifax is just going to be years of wishful thinking. Are there any profession or amateur designers out there who can come up with a reasonable design with the emphasis on low cost?

I think Halifax will likely get a team first and then if it draws well then New Brunswick will also be able to get a team. A New Brunswick team, with the proximity to the confederation bridge, is likely to also get fans from P.E.I.

[MonctonRad]

Originally Posted by fenwick16

A domed stadium will almost certainly become a white elephant. The Skydome in Toronto, even with 6 million people to draw from, has had very serious financial problems

I think Halifax will likely get a team first and then if it draws well then New Brunswick will also be able to get a team. A New Brunswick team, with the proximity to the confederation bridge, is likely to also get fans from P.E.I.

A domed stadium would be considerably more expensive than a traditional stadium, regardless of what CFL-EXPANDER says. I think that in a small market, the only way to prevent financial ruin is to build thriftily. A standard 25,000 seat stadium, modifiable or coverable in the future, is the way to go.

I understand where you are coming from re: Halifax getting a first franchise but this is really Moncton's only kick at the can.........if Moncton gets a franchise first, then you know that Halifax will subsequently get one. If Halifax wins out then Moncton will never get one. We have to win this round.

Finally, on the hot chocolate debate, I went to the 1984 Grey Cup in Edmonton with a friend. It was someting like minus 20 at game time (but it was a dry cold). My friend did bring in a little flask to keep the cold away. We weren't searched. I wouldn't recommend this practice however.......I don't remember the second half of the game at all. I do remember having to tackle my friend to prevent him from kissing a female police officer on the field after the game!!!

[fenwick16]

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

A domed stadium would be considerably more expensive than a traditional stadium, regardless of what CFL-EXPANDER says. I think that in a small market, the only way to prevent financial ruin is to build thriftily. A standard 25,000 seat stadium, modifiable or coverable in the future, is the way to go.

I understand where you are coming from re: Halifax getting a first franchise but this is really Moncton's only kick at the can.........if Moncton gets a franchise first, then you know that Halifax will subsequently get one. If Halifax wins out then Moncton will never get one. We have to win this round.

Finally, on the hot chocolate debate, I went to the 1984 Grey Cup in Edmonton with a friend. It was someting like minus 20 at game time (but it was a dry cold). My friend did bring in a little flask to keep the cold away. We weren't searched. I wouldn't recommend this practice however.......I don't remember the second half of the game at all. I do remember having to tackle my friend to prevent him from kissing a female police officer on the field after the game!!!

I can see your point about New Brunswick needing to get a team first. Then Halifax will be shamed into building a stadium in order to attract a team. But I think it will have to be referred to it as a New Brunswick team located in Moncton since all of the province will be required to support the team in addition to P.E.I. and parts of Nova Scotia.

Lets Go New Brunswick!

[fenwick16]

In spite of favoring Halifax, I can see that Moncton deserves a team more since they have actually built a stadium whereas the politicians in the Halifax area never even seem to mention a stadium. There is a chance that Moncton will be the first Maritime location to get the Grey Cup. Since the Halifax airport is only about an hour and a half from Moncton most teams and out of town fans will likely fly into Halifax and then drive onto Moncton.

[newflyer]

Originally Posted by fenwick16

I can see your point about New Brunswick needing to get a team first. Then Halifax will be shamed into building a stadium in order to attract a team. But I think it will have to be referred to it as a New Brunswick team located in Moncton since all of the province will be required to support the team in addition to P.E.I. and parts of Nova Scotia.

Lets Go New Brunswick!

I think to attract the widest audience possible it will be refered to as Maritime. Something along the lines of the New England team in Boston.

[fenwick16]

How about the Atlantic Schooners which was to be the team's name back in 1983. Just have them located in Moncton instead of Halifax. Maybe even have some games in both locations. I think Halifax could probably set up temporary seats for 20,000 people and have it located close to washroom facilities. Perhaps have two or three games a year at the Halifax Commons with a shuttle bus to the Metro Centre Arena. It seems like Halifax is more interested in building a larger hockey arena than a stadium. It would be great if it could be located close to an open area like the Halifax Commons so that the washroom and canteen facilities could be shared on a temporary basis. This new Halifax Metro Centre could also serve concerts.
Actually, how about having permanent outdoor seating (say 15,000 outdoor seats) attached to a new Halifax Metro Centre so that the parking and washrooms can serve both. For example, a more modern version of the Frank Clair Stadium/Civic Centre in Ottawa. Just have the football stadium seating as an independent structure so that it doesn't look so unusual. Then for CFL games they could add 15,000 temporary seats for a total of 30,000 seats.

[CFL-EXPANDER]

MonctonRad, just a little information for you.

Winnipeg new designed stadium is to cost 40+ million if built (problems already) (GOVERNMENT PROVINCIAL)

The purposed dome stadium I have seen information on will cost 15 million for the shell (450' r) and another 15 million on interior (more with extras) 5 million on the exterior.

The same or just a little more then Winnipeg's.

If the Province gives up 5 million, City contributes 2 million, Federal Government ups 10 million, this is a go. 22 months to build. Purpose owners will contribute 15 million for stadium, 8 million to the operate a CFL team.

Figure feds make back money on taxes (income, GST and Business Taxes)
Province also in Taxes earn their money invested back and the City also.

Invest to return.

Interesting, and provable.

[isaidso]

Isn't the new Bombers/Bisons stadium costed at around $120 million? I do know that they're saving on construction costs due having a site where they can build a sunken bowl. Otherwise, the cost would be substantially higher.