CHICAGO | General Developments

[IrishIllini]

Originally Posted by PKDickman

That's some quality cherry picking.

Let's try the experiment a little farther afield and see if the hypothesis holds up.


Pulaski
Fremont

^ I was going to use North Avenue east of the river as an example to illustrate that it isn't necessarily the number of lanes but the overall streetscape. North Avenue east of the river is an absolute joke. Tons of surface parking, narrow sidewalks, poor lighting, no bike lanes, etc.

Some of these issues are not realistically amendable. The sidewalks being as narrow as they are will likely remain that way. The street isn't wide enough to implement bike lanes and keep two lanes of traffic flowing in each direction. The only thing I can see being an immediate fix is improved lighting and MAYBE some landscaping? There should be a concentrated effort to drag all of the buildings along North Ave to the lot line though. Also get rid of a lot of the surface parking. It'll frame the street better and prevent it from looking like a beltline for cars just trying to make their way to and from I90/94/LSD.

[OrdoSeclorum]

Originally Posted by PKDickman

That's some quality cherry picking.

Let's try the experiment a little farther afield and see if the hypothesis holds up.


Pulaski
Fremont

How is that cherry picking? It's literally the first intersection east of the narrowing and literally the first street west of the widening. I chose those to be as fair and equivalent as possible. If I wanted to make the narrow side look even better and the wide side look even worse it wouldn't be hard, but it would be less honest. Your example is in two different neighborhoods, one lacking a street grid.

Obviously if you add lanes, it attracts businesses that want to be served by more lanes. And if there's zoning changes to allow more curb cuts, the environment will degrade even further. But more than that, from a human perspective it's simply much more pleasant to be in an outdoor "room" that's enclosed on each side by buildings that aren't too far apart. It's a pleasure to walk on North east of Western; it's oppressive and alienating to walk west of Western. It's because of the street width.

[OrdoSeclorum]

On the topic of human-scaled streets, lots of people have Photoshopped the same block to show how it would look if it were narrowed. There are plenty of examples, but here's the first one I could find:

Existing wide street
What it would look like narrow.

[PKDickman]

Originally Posted by OrdoSeclorum

How is that cherry picking? It's literally the first intersection east of the narrowing and literally the first street west of the widening. I chose those to be as fair and equivalent as possible. If I wanted to make the narrow side look even better and the wide side look even worse it wouldn't be hard, but it would be less honest. Your example is in two different neighborhoods, one lacking a street grid.

Because, if you rotate your west side view 180 deg to look at what is actually the first block west of the intersection, it looks like this.

Looking the other way
It is filled with small shops and businesses and the streetwall is only broken by a park and a gas station on opposite corners.

Amazingly, a lot of people are capable of crossing a 100ft ROW. I do it myself when ever I have to get from the Walgreens to the Autozone.

[Ryanrule]

Originally Posted by PKDickman

Because, if you rotate your west side view 180 deg to look at what is actually the first block west of the intersection, it looks like this.

Looking the other way
It is filled with small shops and businesses and the streetwall is only broken by a park and a gas station on opposite corners.

Amazingly, a lot of people are capable of crossing a 100ft ROW. I do it myself when ever I have to get from the Walgreens to the Autozone.

Exciting life you live there.

[Vlajos]

Originally Posted by Ryanrule

Exciting life you live there.

Just spit out my coffee laughing

[OrdoSeclorum]

Originally Posted by PKDickman

Amazingly, a lot of people are capable of crossing a 100ft ROW. I do it myself when ever I have to get from the Walgreens to the Autozone.

Obviously the block at the corner of a major intersection is going to have a different character than as you get further away. That's why it's more representative to allow a brief transition from the intersection. I think one block is fine, since that shows the highest contrast over the shortest distance, but if you use two or three blocks, the transition becomes more stark, not less.

I don't think it's in dispute that people are capable of crossing a wide street. People are also capable of living in a condo by a highway off-ramp. People can walk in a drainage ditch instead of enjoying the sidewalk. I don't prefer it. Cities are for people and they should be built with that in mind.

It's simply less desirable to walk, live, eat or run a business on a wide street designed to maximize auto throughput. Likewise, commercial buildings that ignore pedestrians make for dreary, less pleasant places to live, spend time or invest money.

[PKDickman]

^In reality it has more to do with fire insurance and land values then it does with the width of the street.
North west of Western has been a 100 ft wide since it was platted, It evolved into a rich fine grain mixed use strip.
The only difference is that back then you got runover by dray wagons and streetcars

It's still there in dozens of places all the way to the city limits. Sure, there's a lot of BS where they tore down the Helene Curtis plant and the old CTA yard, but that crap didn't migrate there because the street was 100ft wide, they went there because they could get whole city blocks for cheap.

You cannot compare Wicker Park and Humboldt and say "There but for the width of the road" regardless of how well it fits your notion of the city beautiful.
Their Recent histories are different. Humboldt is still evolving. Frankly until 15 years ago North east of Western looked worse.

[Tom Servo]

Originally Posted by the urban politician

But narrowing streets and building tall structures pisses you off, so why should Chicago ever stop?

Making you mad is half the fun

I'm glad. Call it progress or whatever, but it's total bullshit. When I first got my license (about 14 years ago) you could run red lights, drive as fast as you wanted, etc. All these stupid bike lanes that create one lane traffic are bogus. And the cameras should be illegal. That's my two cents. This city has made driving VERY difficult. And it's all happening so rapidly, it's hard to adjust. Me and everyone I know is getting RAPED by this corrupt city on tickets. It's total bullshit. So yeah, I get testy when you guys applaud the ruining of our streets.

[ChickeNES]

Originally Posted by Tom Servo

This city has made driving VERY difficult.

Good

[Busy Bee]

I feel like I'm being punk'd

[BVictor1]

Originally Posted by spyguy

http://www.chicagotribune.com/busine...202-story.html

Lathrop Homes plan seeks to preserve history, riverfront and public housing
Robert Channick

Lathrop Homes, a historic but decaying public housing project on Chicago's North Side, would become a mixed-income riverfront community of more than 1,100 residences under a plan developers are expected to unveil Wednesday.

I went to the meeting. Here are my notes.

North Center Community Area

Current population between 31,000-32,000
Historic high population 48,000

Lathrop Homes

-currently about 925 units
-1116 units total proposed now
-talks of development have been going on for about 15 years.
-One redevelopment proposal included 1,600 units (originally on plans for restoration)
-Increased numbers of affordable rental units
-Alderman didn’t want to lower the density… A part of the compromise.
-Tallest building will be 13 stories at the southern end of the site. At one time 27 stories were proposed.
-preservation went from 18 to 20 buildings
-56% of units will be affordable
-400 CHA public housing units returning
-extras buildings will be restored and new windows along with appliances installed
-restoring Jens Jensen great lawn
-restoring Elizabeth Wood park
-TIF will be used for some infrastructure and for affordable housing
-green design woven throughout site
-3 phases
-497 units in phase one.
-619 will be 2nd and 3rd phase
-9 buildings will be demolished south of Diversey
-4 to 8 stories will be the norm for new construction

[BrinChi]

Originally Posted by Tom Servo

I'm glad. Call it progress or whatever, but it's total bullshit. When I first got my license (about 14 years ago) you could run red lights, drive as fast as you wanted, etc. All these stupid bike lanes that create one lane traffic are bogus. And the cameras should be illegal. That's my two cents. This city has made driving VERY difficult. And it's all happening so rapidly, it's hard to adjust. Me and everyone I know is getting RAPED by this corrupt city on tickets. It's total bullshit. So yeah, I get testy when you guys applaud the ruining of our streets.

Originally Posted by Tom Servo

Awful. Way too big, out of scale. Stuff this size is appropriate for downtown, but not in the neighborhoods.

How do you reconcile your positions here? On the one hand you want double lanes through dense neighborhoods so you can drive fast. But on the other dislike the Milwaukee & Washtenaw mini-towers in Logan Square for being too big for the neighborhood.

The double lanes are much more harmful toward the pedestrian experience than those towers could ever hope to be.

[r18tdi]

Ugh, New City has added red LED piping to the top of the its parking garage, theater, and tower. Looks pretty amateurish IMO.

[Chi-Sky21]

Originally Posted by BVictor1

I went to the meeting. Here are my notes.

North Center Community Area

Current population between 31,000-32,000
Historic high population 48,000

Lathrop Homes

-currently about 925 units
-1116 units total proposed now
-talks of development have been going on for about 15 years.
-One redevelopment proposal included 1,600 units (originally on plans for restoration)
-Increased numbers of affordable rental units
-Alderman didn’t want to lower the density… A part of the compromise.
-Tallest building will be 13 stories at the southern end of the site. At one time 27 stories were proposed.
-preservation went from 18 to 20 buildings
-56% of units will be affordable
-400 CHA public housing units returning
-extras buildings will be restored and new windows along with appliances installed
-restoring Jens Jensen great lawn
-restoring Elizabeth Wood park
-TIF will be used for some infrastructure and for affordable housing
-green design woven throughout site
-3 phases
-497 units in phase one.
-619 will be 2nd and 3rd phase
-9 buildings will be demolished south of Diversey
-4 to 8 stories will be the norm for new construction

Just curious..... are all the "new" CHA units the ones in the old rehabbed buildings and not the new ones?

[Via Chicago]

Originally Posted by Tom Servo

I'm glad. Call it progress or whatever, but it's total bullshit. When I first got my license (about 14 years ago) you could run red lights, drive as fast as you wanted, etc. All these stupid bike lanes that create one lane traffic are bogus. And the cameras should be illegal. That's my two cents. This city has made driving VERY difficult. And it's all happening so rapidly, it's hard to adjust. Me and everyone I know is getting RAPED by this corrupt city on tickets. It's total bullshit. So yeah, I get testy when you guys applaud the ruining of our streets.

so the city has made it harder for you to break the law and drive like an idiot endangering the lives of others. mission accomplished. the HORROR that you now have to drive the speed limit and stop at red lights and check your blind spot for cyclists (or did you forget all the things you were taught in drivers ed 14 years ago?).

do you ever take a deep breath and even read your own rants? do you have any notion how you come across?

honest question, have you ever lived anywhere else? traveled longterm? i think it would do you some good, and i mean that genuinely. its a big world out there. on the other hand, youre so wrapped up in your own head youll probably think these perceived slights the world is leveling against you are following you from one place to the next.

[ardecila]

^ No. The unit types are spread through the site. The historic buildings will contain at least 100 CHA units so that CHA can relocate the tenants in the south half in preparation for tearing down that section.

[Busy Bee]

Why did the tallest proposed tower get chopped down?

[Kumdogmillionaire]

Is Tom really bitching about not being able to speed and run red lights, while simultaneously being anti-development? What is the point of spending time on a forum like this, when your motives seem to be counter-intuitive

[BVictor1]

Originally Posted by Chi-Sky21

Just curious..... are all the "new" CHA units the ones in the old rehabbed buildings and not the new ones?

Mixed throughout the development.

Originally Posted by Busy Bee

Why did the tallest proposed tower get chopped down?

Neighborhood pushback, the usual reasons.