Stadiums & Arenas of Canada, Part 3

[elly63]

Originally Posted by Berklon

But, hey - paint me as an "America lover

Ok,

Location: Hamilton (The Brooklyn of Canada)

[elly63]

Originally Posted by Berklon

I can bash whatever the hell I like. You don't like it - tough shit. I'll continue to stay out of the CFL thread because that would be trolling and threadcrapping - anywhere else is fair game.

I don't mind, I'll just keep calling you out on your trolling. Now, you remember, you promised to stop trolling the CFL thread, I wouldn't want to see you go back on your promise

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by elly63

Ok,

Location: Hamilton (The Brooklyn of Canada)

It's also the Geelong, Sheffield, St-Étienne, Essen, etc. of Canada.

[elly63]

Originally Posted by Acajack

It's also the Geelong, Sheffield, St-Étienne, Essen, etc. of Canada.

I had to think about that. While looking up St-Étienne steel the first thing that came up was Body & Steel Pole Dance Studio, is that a big industry there?

[someone123]

My understanding is that no business plan has been given to Halifax regional council and there is nothing for them to vote on yet.

From their perspective the stadium is just one of many potential capital expenditures. From the perspective of the city there's a lot going on too, even just in terms of sports with the Wanderers starting up. It's not a sports-crazed town and the CFL has a low profile there (as in, if not for the potential local team it would be ~0). This isn't to say that a team couldn't work there, but it's not going to be something the municipality or population at large will strive for.

I think it makes sense for the city to have a decent-sized stadium eventually since it's the unofficial regional capital and is on its way to having half a million people. It's becoming a conspicuously missing piece of infrastructure that could get a lot of use for local sports groups and special events. The cost of a bare-bones stadium is also shrinking relative to the size of the city budget. HRM council is probably more likely to fund a stadium for those reasons than CFL mania.

[elly63]

Originally Posted by someone123

I think it makes sense for the city to have a decent-sized stadium eventually since it's the unofficial regional capital and is on its way to having half a million people. It's becoming a conspicuously missing piece of infrastructure that could get a lot of use for local sports groups and special events.

Amen

[esquire]

If Halifax is going to build a new stadium, it it is going to need a primary tenant. Otherwise, paying the bills might prove a lot more difficult. And if that primary tenant isn't a CFL team, then who would it be?

[elly63]

Originally Posted by esquire

If Halifax is going to build a new stadium, it it is going to need a primary tenant. Otherwise, paying the bills might prove a lot more difficult. And if that primary tenant isn't a CFL team, then who would it be?

They do kinda go hand in hand but if this deal doesn't come together, I have to wonder why the potential ownership group hung around so long, if it wasn't getting any type of encouragement or even any hint of a sweetheart deal. I also wonder how much or little a connection SMU might have.

[JHikka]

Originally Posted by someone123

My understanding is that no business plan has been given to Halifax regional council and there is nothing for them to vote on yet.

This is correct. A business plan has been "coming soon" for half a year.

[elly63]

Originally Posted by JHikka

This is correct. A business plan has been "coming soon" for half a year.

So what? These things take time.

[JHikka]

Westhills in Langford getting another stand:

Originally Posted by JHikka

via purple-randy on reddit

Going to be a cozy looking stadium when that end is filled in.

[someone123]

Originally Posted by esquire

If Halifax is going to build a new stadium, it it is going to need a primary tenant. Otherwise, paying the bills might prove a lot more difficult. And if that primary tenant isn't a CFL team, then who would it be?

Moncton has a 10,000 seat stadium. I don't think it has a primary tenant. It is a much smaller city than Halifax. To put things into perspective, Moncton's stadium cost about 2/3 as much as Halifax's 2019 municipal budget surplus. From a financial perspective, a CFL-ready stadium is more affordable for Halifax than Moncton's stadium was.

If we are talking about a gold plated US-style stadium then sure, it's not going to happen. But a community-oriented stadium with 20,000-25,000 seats could be built by the city. It would be used for special events and smaller sports teams and would be genuinely useful with or without the CFL. If this were in place, bringing the CFL to town would be much easier.

(I wish the city had started this whole process rather than the CFL promoters, and started from the premise that it would go on the commons in the middle of the city as a piece of public infrastructure. I guess that ship has sailed for now. If this CFL attempt fails then maybe the stadium could happen in 10 years.)

[MonctonRad]

Originally Posted by someone123

Moncton has a 10,000 seat stadium. I don't think it has a primary tenant. It is a much smaller city than Halifax. To put things into perspective, Moncton's stadium cost about 2/3 as much as Halifax's 2019 municipal budget surplus. From a financial perspective, a CFL-ready stadium is more affordable for Halifax than Moncton's stadium was.

If their is a "primary tenant" for the Medavie Blue Cross Stadium in Moncton, it would be the UdeM sports teams since it was built on the UdeM campus.

There is no question however that the Blue Cross Stadium is currently under-utilized. UdeM does not have a U Sports football team.

The Blue Cross Stadium however was built for a specific purpose - to host the World Junior Track & Field Championship in 2010. It was built inexpensively (I believe about $25M), but still has 10,000 individual seats rather than bleachers.

Since the World Junior Track & Field Championships, the stadium has also held:

- Canadian Track & Field Championships (twice)
- FIFA U20 Women's World Cup
- FIFA Women's World Cup
- three CFL games (with a fourth one scheduled for this summer).

If Moncton is too small for a CFL team, I would really like to see a Premier League team here in the city. There was some initial interest on the part of Soccer NB, but I don't think they could find equity partners with deep enough pockets.

In any event, there has to be a reason to build a stadium in Halifax. The World Junior Track & Field Championship was the reason for Moncton. A CFL team seems like a reasonable enough reason for Halifax to build a stadium as far as I'm concerned. If Halifax hadn't backed out of hosting the Commonwealth Games, there would already be a stadium in the city and all this would be a moot point.........

[someone123]

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

In any event, there has to be a reason to build a stadium in Halifax.

I'd probably call it a "pretext" rather than a reason. A one-off event is not a good justification for building a permanent piece of infrastructure, but seems to make such projects more politically viable. These opportunities come by every few years, so if a stadium is a priority then it is possible to find an event to tie it to. The biggest challenge as far as municipal politics go right now is probably that the stadium is priority #17 or so. I'm not sure there are any politicians really pushing to make it happen. Maybe it will get a bit more attention when a couple of the current big ticket items are resolved.

[EpicPonyTime]

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

If Moncton is too small for a CFL team, I would really like to see a Premier League team here in the city. There was some initial interest on the part of Soccer NB, but I don't think they could find equity partners with deep enough pockets.

Do you think a CPL team would use the Moncton Stadium though? The stadium is not well suited for non-track events. Given how inexpensive CPL stadiums are, I imagine a Moncton team would start fresh and build their own 5K soccer-suited field.

[The S'toon Goon]

I wonder if there is any appetite for 20,000 seat stadium in London, Ontario. It is roughly the same size as Halifax so it could arguably use the same type of infastructure that we say Halifax could use.

I think Western has roughly a 9 or 10,000 seat facility so maybe that's just fine, but perhaps not? London isn't shrinking either!

[Djeffery]

Originally Posted by The S'toon Goon

I wonder if there is any appetite for 20,000 seat stadium in London, Ontario. It is roughly the same size as Halifax so it could arguably use the same type of infastructure that we say Halifax could use.

I think Western has roughly a 9 or 10,000 seat facility so maybe that's just fine, but perhaps not? London isn't shrinking either!

I'm in London, and I would love to see one. But I have no idea what it would be used for. TD Stadium is I think closer to 8000 seats, mostly on bleachers, with maybe a 100 or so actual chairs, with the ability to have portable seating to expand it. It was built to host the Canada Summer Games in 2001 and Western was a partner in the Games as well so the stadium going there was a natural fit. It was a nice improvement over what was there before, but it pales in comparison to many of the new or improved U Sports football stadiums built since. My son played some minor football there before he went to high school, and honestly, I preferred the other field that was usually used on the other side of the city (City Wide Field). TD is also never full for Western Mustangs games either, even the national semi-final last year. But it's also never going to host a Vanier Cup either. There was talk years ago of the Tiger Cats moving to London to a stadium to be built basically where City Wide is now. I doubt that a CFL team would be viable here and that would be the only reason for a stadium of that size here.

There was talk a couple years ago when the CPL was being floated that someone was interested in building a 3000-5000 seat soccer stadium just south of downtown but I haven't heard a thing about it since.

[JHikka]

Originally Posted by The S'toon Goon

I wonder if there is any appetite for 20,000 seat stadium in London, Ontario. It is roughly the same size as Halifax so it could arguably use the same type of infastructure that we say Halifax could use.

I think Western has roughly a 9 or 10,000 seat facility so maybe that's just fine, but perhaps not? London isn't shrinking either!

The issue in London is that local council is insane and it's prohibitively difficult to get anything of any substance done. The Western facility is nice but it couldn't be permanent for either CPL or CFL in the long run.

[JHikka]

Originally Posted by someone123

I'd probably call it a "pretext" rather than a reason. A one-off event is not a good justification for building a permanent piece of infrastructure, but seems to make such projects more politically viable. These opportunities come by every few years, so if a stadium is a priority then it is possible to find an event to tie it to. The biggest challenge as far as municipal politics go right now is probably that the stadium is priority #17 or so. I'm not sure there are any politicians really pushing to make it happen. Maybe it will get a bit more attention when a couple of the current big ticket items are resolved.

Do they, though? I'd say once a decade, maybe, depending on what you'd consider enough of an event requiring a stadium of that size. The Commonwealth or Pan Am Games don't exactly come to town every three or four years.

[MonctonRad]

Originally Posted by JHikka

The Commonwealth or Pan Am Games don't exactly come to town every three or four years.

And the way that Halifax bailed on the Commonwealth Games means that it will be generations before that particular event comes knocking at Halifax's door again.

And this isn't just me poking a stick in Halifax's eye. NB bailed on the upcoming Francophonie Games too, so I don't see that event coming to NB again in the foreseeable future either..........

Decisions like this can damage a city's reputation. Not that I'm saying it was particularly a bad decision not to hold the games. At least in NB's case, the cost of the games in Moncton had been badly misrepresented, and would have been nearly 10x the original anticipated cost.