Stadiums & Arenas of Canada, Part 3

[SaskScraper]

If Halifax could build a stadium half the size of the Alabama one for College Football and at half the price, even if it's bleacher seating & without cover for rain. It'll be half the size of Western CFL stadiums but about inline with Eastern CFL stadiums...

That should suffice for now until the CFL can determine if Atlantic Canada is ready for a Pro Football team. Add the capability for installation of individual seats & partial cover and space for addition of premium box seating if demand requires at a later date.





Speaking of Western Canadian Stadiums...

Three years after Garth Brooks had almost 100,000 people attend his concerts in Saskatoon, Regina is well on it's way to achieving close to a similar attendance at Mosaic Stadium in August at over 40,000 people per concert date in Regina.


https://garthbrooks.com/

Garth's first concert at Mosaic Stadium sold out in less than an hour and his second concert was announced only days later.
Regina is Garth Brooks only Stadium stop in Canada in 2019, His stadium tour in America is selling out with multiple dates in many city's stadiums.

https://garthbrooks.com/

Country music is the most listened to genre of music on evening commutes in America*

* https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Country_music

Chris Stapleton will be in Regina with Craven Country Thunder* festival in July, making one of only two appearances in Canada in 2019.

* https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Country_Thunder

Chris is one of the most sought after Country artists, with Five Grammys and a recent appearance in Game of Thrones, Chris has performed with Justin Timberlake and has written for Adele.

Other Country Artists having been or already booked in Saskatchewan this year are Little Big Town, Thomas Rhett, Carrie Underwood, Tim McGraw and Luke Combs.

[EpicPonyTime]

What are the acoustics like in Mosaic? I had tickets to the GnR concert the year it opened up but couldn't go.

[SaskScraper]

That's the first thing I wondered about before going to Mosaic for any event, but the acoustics for football and concerts are both surprisingly great. No reverberation or echoy sound, they manage the sound system well.

Of course concerts sound is more determined by the sound system of the touring group it's self, but from what i've experienced they seem to have easy control of the sound within the stadium.

[Dr Awesomesauce]

Halifax

I've said it many times: no idea why you couldn't build a 20,000 seat stadium for a reasonable price.
*Two covered grandstands;
*bleacher seating;
*standing room in the endzone.

Don't overcomplicate things - it's a football stadium, not your living room, after all.

[blueandgoldguy]

Leblanc and the would-be ownership group in Halifax still have not submitted a business plan to Halifax city council. That is not an encouraging sign and not surprising given it's Leblanc.

[Andy6]

Originally Posted by blueandgoldguy

Leblanc and the would-be ownership group in Halifax still have not submitted a business plan to Halifax city council. That is not an encouraging sign and not surprising given it's Leblanc.

I would guess that the Schooners undefeated record isn't in any danger for a good long while.

[elly63]

Why the negative speculation? Exactly what does that help or solve? There are more than enough CFL haters that post in this thread, is there a need to encourage more?

We don't know what is happening positive or negative, same with the sale of the Als, same with the sale of the Argos and that turned out to have the best possible resolution.

Would it kill people to boost this league for a change instead of crapping on it. I assume the people who post here do because they want to be among like thinking people who support the league.

I get it isn't always sunshine and roses and there is bad news, but seriously, would posting some positive stories kill some people.

People always have to find a whipping boy and in this case it is LeBlanc. AFAIK, he's never been charged with anything, and never went to jail. I'm sure one poster will have smoke coming from his fingers trying to google something there.

I just saw that last year LeBlanc was named CEO of Modern Leaf, a weed company. I can tell you that anyone who got into that business on the ground floor has made some money. I am tangentially involved with that industry and I can tell you it's big money. His company doubled their investment on the sale of the Coyotes, so whether people think he is greasy or not, his outcomes seem to come out well, financially and legally.

Read a story last night that we might not be seeing anything until July and possibly later and that was agreed to by LeBlanc. These things take time, read about every other stadium build in Canada. If you want to fault LeBlanc, fault him for shooting his mouth off too quick trying to get a positive vibe out there about a process that will take near a decade instead of the timeline he was hoping for.

If it happens, in its latest smaller stadium guise, it will be good, even if the team doesn't make it. Halifax will finally have a decent permanent outdoor facility. If it all goes to hell that would have been for the best as well because like the Renegades, if they hit the field and fail it gives the haterz more ammunition and that would kill the idea of CFL football on the east coast for a long, long time.

[MonctonRad]

Well, the Schooners aren't completely moribund, they are still sponsoring the Toronto/Montreal CFL game in Moncton this August.

I imagine what's going on in Halifax is a high stakes game of chicken. LeBlanc is waiting for the city and province to blink. Personally, I'm not sure the current iteration of Halifax city council is inclined to be overly generous to LeBlanc's group.........

[esquire]

I don't think anyone would for a moment accuse me of being a CFL hater, but come on... the complete inability of anyone involved to get a stadium project off the ground in Halifax more or less speaks for itself.

At this point I'm sure the CFL would settle for even a barely functional temporary venue, but even that seems beyond the capabilities of the Halifax proponents. In other words, they're all hat, not cattle.

It just might be that the CPL is a better fit for Halifax's sensibilities, where all you really need is a community-level soccer field augmented with a few rows of bleacher seats. Easy peasy.

[Acajack]

You can also put me in the camp of those who care more about Halifax getting a stadium than actually getting a team with the LeBlanc group. (Though I realize that the former might be impossible without the latter.)

On a broader level, I'd say any city in Canada that would have a decent 20-25,000 seat stadium would probably have a CFL team at this point.

And that the main reason that the CFL doesn't have more teams is a lack of venues in so many of our cities as opposed to a lack of interest - a CFL team isn't really that expensive a proposition as far as sports properties go.

Quebec City, Halifax and maybe a couple of other cities would already be in the league by now if at some point in the 20th century they had built 25,000-seat stadiums for the British Empire Games or some other reason.

[esquire]

Originally Posted by Acajack

And that the main reason that the CFL doesn't have more teams is a lack of venues in so many of our cities as opposed to a lack of interest - a CFL team isn't really that expensive a proposition as far as sports properties go.

Quebec City, Halifax and maybe a couple of other cities would already be in the league by now if at some point in the 20th century they had built 25,000-seat stadiums for the British Empire Games or some other reason.

The CFL occupies a bit of an awkward in-between state where it still demands quasi-major league markets and quasi-major league venues, but doesn't really generate the revenue to justify the latter. A CFL team that nets a million bucks a year on $11 million or whatever in annual revenue is hard up to justify a $250 million stadium. The league can get away with it in places like Winnipeg, Hamilton and Regina where the home teams are part of the local identity, but Halifax is not invested the same way. So for a smaller city like Halifax, the stadium cost is a big ask.

I wonder what the economics of a CFL team in Halifax with a small stadium would look like? Say 10,000 seats. At an average of $60 a pop, assuming they can sell out the games, you would think it wouldn't be too bad considering that would more than pay the player payroll without even having to touch the TV money. In some respects, that would seem easier than making a team work when it's saddled with even partial costs of a new large (20,000+ seat) stadium.

It's interesting to play the 'what if' game and consider how the league would have evolved if in the 90s it had gone in the direction of lowering the bar for entry and putting teams in smaller CHL-level cities. Teams in places like Moncton, Sherbrooke, Kingston, Kelowna, etc. Looking back, it might have led to more growth than keeping the bar set as high as it is. When it comes to "major league" Canadian cities, the only ones really left for the CFL to expand to are Quebec and Halifax, and neither is willing or able to build a stadium. So it's pretty limited in that regard.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by esquire

The CFL occupies a bit of an awkward in-between state where it still demands quasi-major league markets and quasi-major league venues, but doesn't really generate the revenue to justify the latter. A CFL team that nets a million bucks a year on $11 million or whatever in annual revenue is hard up to justify a $250 million stadium. The league can get away with it in places like Winnipeg, Hamilton and Regina where the home teams are part of the local identity, but Halifax is not invested the same way. So for a smaller city like Halifax, the stadium cost is a big ask.

I wonder what the economics of a CFL team in Halifax with a small stadium would look like? Say 10,000 seats. At an average of $60 a pop, assuming they can sell out the games, you would think it wouldn't be too bad considering that would more than pay the player payroll without even having to touch the TV money. In some respects, that would seem easier than making a team work when it's saddled with even partial costs of a new large (20,000+ seat) stadium.

But would 10,000 people be willing to pay 60 dollars a ticket every two weeks in the summer and fall? There is a chicken and egg aspect to this. The more people come to games, the more people think it's big time and worth spending their 60 bucks a ticket.

A 10,000-seat stadium even if packed is going to feel small time to most people, so if you're asking them to pay premium prices (which 60 bucks a ticket is for a lot of people) you need to give them some type of big time atmosphere. That's hard to do with two 5,000-seat grandstands.

Even in the stadiums of cities like Hamilton and Ottawa which have pretty good atmosphere (the teams put a lot of effort into that), creating that "feel" is a bit of a stretch.

[wave46]

Originally Posted by esquire

The CFL occupies a bit of an awkward in-between state where it still demands quasi-major league markets and quasi-major league venues, but doesn't really generate the revenue to justify the latter. A CFL team that nets a million bucks a year on $11 million or whatever in annual revenue is hard up to justify a $250 million stadium. The league can get away with it in places like Winnipeg, Hamilton and Regina where the home teams are part of the local identity, but Halifax is not invested the same way. So for a smaller city like Halifax, the stadium cost is a big ask.

Yeah, the naysayers have the upper hand markets like Quebec City and Halifax. They have a quotable number (say $100-150m for a stadium) whereas the proponents have to rely more on emotion to sell their concept.

As you mention, emotion works great for markets that are invested in the CFL. It's a much harder sell in indifferent markets.

Unless LeBlanc can show a groundswell of support from the locals, I think his blowing smoke won't convince council to think there's a fire there.

[elly63]

Originally Posted by Acajack

You can also put me in the camp of those who care more about Halifax getting a stadium than actually getting a team with the LeBlanc group. (Though I realize that the former might be impossible without the latter.)

On a broader level, I'd say any city in Canada that would have a decent 20-25,000 seat stadium would probably have a CFL team at this point.

And that the main reason that the CFL doesn't have more teams is a lack of venues in so many of our cities as opposed to a lack of interest - a CFL team isn't really that expensive a proposition as far as sports properties go.

Quebec City, Halifax and maybe a couple of other cities would already be in the league by now if at some point in the 20th century they had built 25,000-seat stadiums for the British Empire Games or some other reason.

Totally agree

[elly63]

Originally Posted by esquire

I don't think anyone would for a moment accuse me of being a CFL hater, but come on... the complete inability of anyone involved to get a stadium project off the ground in Halifax more or less speaks for itself.

That happened how many times before LeBlanc et al came on the scene? One would think they would at least have had something along the lines of what Moncton has and that has nothing to do with the CFL.

Forget the CFL, should Halifax have a 10k seat structure for public use, domed in the winter for year round use? They had planned for that type stadium and never got it done, they were a good candidate for the Commonwealth Games and never got it done, is there a pattern here? And I do know the story behind the CG games bid, all these things involve revision, reduction and compromise. You just can't always be afraid to go there.

[Berklon]

Originally Posted by elly63

I just saw that last year LeBlanc was named CEO of Modern Leaf, a weed company. I can tell you that anyone who got into that business on the ground floor has made some money. I am tangentially involved with that industry and I can tell you it's big money. His company doubled their investment on the sale of the Coyotes, so whether people think he is greasy or not, his outcomes seem to come out well, financially and legally.

Don't know how much money he's making in the weed industry - he could be filthy rich for all I know... I haven't been following him in that regard... but I'm not sure about "doubling his investment" with the Coyotes. He didn't actually own the team and I don't think he had any actual financial skin in the game... so if he doubled his money, it would be a very small amount of money.

If you actually paid attention to the Coyotes saga as it was happening on a daily/weekly basis (not just after the fact), you would know what the rest of us know - he's a snake oil salesman and can't be trusted. Think Lyle Langley selling a monorail to Springfield. He's basically a guy who's willing to attach his name to anything in the hopes that a city will build him an arena/stadium - without having any real skin in the game. He's just an opportunist willing to take advantage of dumb people.

The Coyotes saga was a perfect example of that. This is the guy who was touting Glendale as a great hockey market that will succeed... but that was when the city of Glendale was subsidizing the teams losses. The second Glendale got out of that commitment/contract (due to a massive and comical fuck-up by Leblanc which gave Glendale the loophole to bail), then he changed his tune - stating that the Coyotes can't survive in Glendale and needs a new arena built elsewhere in Arizona (also trying to partner up with the Suns). The NHL eventually just told him to get lost since he was an embarrassment.

People who were following the whole saga wondered where he would turn up next to attach his name to a project with little financial skin hoping someone else would foot the bill for the project while he tries capitalizes off of stupid people. Halifax here we are!

Sure, he didn't murder anyone or get arrested for anything that I know of... but that doesn't mean he's trustworthy.

[esquire]

^ That certainly is my impression of Leblanc. A huckster whose business plan consists mainly of getting someone else to put real money into his ventures.

[elly63]

Originally Posted by Berklon

People who were following the whole saga wondered where he would turn up next to attach his name to a project with little financial skin hoping someone else would foot the bill for the project while he tries capitalizes off of stupid people. Halifax here we are!

Sure, he didn't murder anyone or get arrested for anything that I know of... but that doesn't mean he's trustworthy.

Trustworthy, how many owners of sports teams can you say that about? And you're right Maritimers are stupid, trusting people, definitely not the urbane, intelligent, sophisticates like they are up in Central Canada.

[wave46]

Originally Posted by elly63

Trustworthy, how many owners of sports teams can you say that about? And you're right Maritimers are stupid, trusting people, definitely not the urbane, intelligent, sophisticates like they are up in Central Canada.

Well...if you're going to try and sell something to people, credibility is a major component of that.

If one has a history of leaving flaming wreckage in their wake, don't be surprised that one is facing an uphill battle.

[EpicPonyTime]

It's telling for Halifax that even with the bare-bones, small stadium the Schooners proposed, there is still no sign of support from city council, barely any from the public, and still no sign of a business plan.

I think the ownership group expected there to be more excitement and has been scrambling since the season ticket drive to figure out what to do and whether or not the team is still viable. I personally don't believe they are at this point.

But that's the catch-22 with Halifax. Without the team, they won't get the stadium. City council would not spend the millions necessary to build one without someone to use it. The only viable alternative to the CFL is the Wanderers, but they have a good thing going where they are.