PHILADELPHIA | Lowrise/General Developments Thread II

[Justin7]

Originally Posted by bonfire

https://x.com/designadvocacy/status/...283193894?s=20

Promising that a meeting is coming up on this. May not be the most logistical but I would prefer even less roads especially in the middle of the proposal. Just seems like a lot of road to cross and I find that is the worst part of the current parkway layout is the lack of ways to cross it and the length of the roads to cross.

This may finally break me. You'll find me in one of those triangular grass dead areas, sans pants, yelling at cars.

[BroadandMarket]

I saw on FB that the Bourse is down to 3 tenants: https://www.facebook.com/groups/Phil...ibextid=zDhOQc

The space is fantastic so it's a shame to see it fail. I know they were hurt very badly by Covid (huge groups of student tourists and other tourists) but I can't believe they never regrouped and tried anything different when it has clearly been failing. It's just too close to Reading Terminal while being less authentic and more expensive.

If you've ever been to Chinatown Square, this might be a better example for them moving forward. There are bars, karaoke and nightlife mixed with a bunch of food vendors. The Bourse places were mostly all closed around 3 PM. Would a 50/50 split of lunch/dinner places would help? Then add a common bar in the middle. Then again Independence Mall is a dead area at night so who knows. Or they could go with a more popular fast causal spots like Goldie, Federal Donuts, Cava and Sweetgreen?

[Skintreesnail]

Originally Posted by Justin7

This may finally break me. You'll find me in one of those triangular grass dead areas, sans pants, yelling at cars.

Yeah wtf is even the point of that? Its like they just need to add some dangerous aspect for pedestrians just because they want cars to go fast, which they're not supposed to be doing anyway. And honestly, as a driver that $hit is just going to confuse me. I'll probably just panic and drive into the baseball field trying to decide what to do.

[Redddog]

Originally Posted by BroadandMarket

I saw on FB that the Bourse is down to 3 tenants: https://www.facebook.com/groups/Phil...ibextid=zDhOQc

The space is fantastic so it's a shame to see it fail. I know they were hurt very badly by Covid (huge groups of student tourists and other tourists) but I can't believe they never regrouped and tried anything different when it has clearly been failing. It's just too close to Reading Terminal while being less authentic and more expensive.

If you've ever been to Chinatown Square, this might be a better example for them moving forward. There are bars, karaoke and nightlife mixed with a bunch of food vendors. The Bourse places were mostly all closed around 3 PM. Would a 50/50 split of lunch/dinner places would help? Then add a common bar in the middle. Then again Independence Mall is a dead area at night so who knows. Or they could go with a more popular fast causal spots like Goldie, Federal Donuts, Cava and Sweetgreen?

What a miss on the Bourse.

They were talking this up like it was gonna be a sister location to the Chelsea Market in NY.

The reality was a crappy food court.

[BroadandMarket]

Regardless of what design is picked...this is the first I'm seeing a pedestrian bridge crossing over the river?! That would be so awesome. The city should add one at Locust as well from Penn Park to Schuylkill Park.

[Skintreesnail]

I actually thought they did a nice job on the bourse renovation, just that covid and being so close to reading killed it. I've only been there a couple times myself and assumed that the target market is tourists, who i imagine would have rtm on the itinerary.

I like the idea of changing it to something more like Chinatown square. The mall in general is such a waste of space. Too bad they destroyed the neighborhood which could have frequented the bourse along with the tourists.

[Skintreesnail]

Originally Posted by BroadandMarket

Regardless of what design is picked...this is the first I'm seeing a pedestrian bridge crossing over the river?! That would be so awesome. The city should add one at Locust as well from Penn Park to Schuylkill Park.

They had it on the last rendering i saw over the summer, but i assume it's for the future rail yard overbuild since nothing is really there now. And mlk acting as another pedestrian bridge covers the trail on the west side of the river. Definitely would be needed to tie into the bluff park that's part of the rail yard project. Or vision i guess i should say.

The locust bridge i thought was part of the original penn park plan too. It would be great if they actually do it.

Edit: found it in the 2008 connects plan (but looks like it tied into pine maybe vs locust)
PENN CONNECTS: A VISION FOR THE FuTuRE - UPenn Facilities https://facilities.upenn.edu/sites/default/files/pdfs/pennconnectsavisionforthefuture_2006.pdf

https://www.sasaki.com/projects/univ...penn-connects/

[DeltaNerd]

Originally Posted by BroadandMarket

I saw on FB that the Bourse is down to 3 tenants: https://www.facebook.com/groups/Phil...ibextid=zDhOQc

The space is fantastic so it's a shame to see it fail. I know they were hurt very badly by Covid (huge groups of student tourists and other tourists) but I can't believe they never regrouped and tried anything different when it has clearly been failing. It's just too close to Reading Terminal while being less authentic and more expensive.

If you've ever been to Chinatown Square, this might be a better example for them moving forward. There are bars, karaoke and nightlife mixed with a bunch of food vendors. The Bourse places were mostly all closed around 3 PM. Would a 50/50 split of lunch/dinner places would help? Then add a common bar in the middle. Then again Independence Mall is a dead area at night so who knows. Or they could go with a more popular fast causal spots like Goldie, Federal Donuts, Cava and Sweetgreen?

Having couple of fast causal would help like the list you mentioned or like a chipotle.

The Independence Mall is so bad. I'm sorry for ranting again about that but it's doesn't do much to add to Philly. If they redid the liberty bell and added another two/three museum with a park for sitting and a playground this area would be amazing. The Mall is so empty and used grass space.

Maybe that would help the Brouse be a better spot to eat

[PhillyPDX]

Originally Posted by DeltaNerd

Having couple of fast causal would help like the list you mentioned or like a chipotle.

The Independence Mall is so bad. I'm sorry for ranting again about that but it's doesn't do much to add to Philly. If they redid the liberty bell and added another two/three museum with a park for sitting and a playground this area would be amazing. The Mall is so empty and used grass space.

Maybe that would help the Brouse be a better spot to eat

Maybe space for a new sixers arena on the empty mall lawn? It could be like the new Kraken arena where people in the arena bowl can see outside to the city, but here people could see out to Indy Hall! Bourse would thrive

#backupplan

[nemesisinphilly]

Originally Posted by BroadandMarket

I saw on FB that the Bourse is down to 3 tenants: https://www.facebook.com/groups/Phil...ibextid=zDhOQc

The space is fantastic so it's a shame to see it fail. I know they were hurt very badly by Covid (huge groups of student tourists and other tourists) but I can't believe they never regrouped and tried anything different when it has clearly been failing. It's just too close to Reading Terminal while being less authentic and more expensive.

If you've ever been to Chinatown Square, this might be a better example for them moving forward. There are bars, karaoke and nightlife mixed with a bunch of food vendors. The Bourse places were mostly all closed around 3 PM. Would a 50/50 split of lunch/dinner places would help? Then add a common bar in the middle. Then again Independence Mall is a dead area at night so who knows. Or they could go with a more popular fast causal spots like Goldie, Federal Donuts, Cava and Sweetgreen?

Perfect spot for a TimeOut Market: https://www.timeoutmarket.com/

[reparcsyks]

Originally Posted by nemesisinphilly

Perfect spot for a TimeOut Market: https://www.timeoutmarket.com/

TimeOut Markets are fantastic. I wish we could lure them to The Bourse.

[UrbanRevival]

Originally Posted by reparcsyks

TimeOut Markets are fantastic. I wish we could lure them to The Bourse.

I've been to the TimeOut in Boston. It was....too corporatized and even more overpriced in my experience.

I honestly preferred the 2019 just-revamped version of the Bourse that I remember, which was definitely pricey but still felt very local and less overtly curated.

If not for the damn COVID, I really think it would have taken off in a sustainable way. I hope it can reinvent itself yet again in a similar way but with a better hook (as others have said, Independence Mall definitely needs to draw more foot traffic again).

[PhilliesPhan]

Originally Posted by summersm343

Developer behind Budd Co. plant transformation in talks for first life sciences tenants

Article behind paywall here:
https://www.bizjournals.com/philadel...t-leasing.html

I'm rooting hard for this project. A revitalized Budd Plant would hopefully revitalize the Tioga neighborhood that surrounds it, as well as continuing the ongoing renaissance of Allegheny West (seriously, there's an unbelievable amount of development going up between Ridge, Allegheny, and Hunting Park). Tioga and the portions of Nicetown closest to Erie Avenue are gorgeous, but have experienced years of disinvestment. I would really love to see those neighborhoods come back to life.

Also, if this project were to reach its full potential, then SEPTA should investigate adding a new Tioga station on the Chestnut Hill West Line. Looking at Google Maps, there would certainly be enough room for platforms to the south of Hunting Park Avenue. A stop on the CHW would tie all of the gene therapy sites at the Bud Bioworks campus, University City, and potentially North Philadelphia Station together.

[PhilliesPhan]

Also, I noticed that the design for 6174 Ridge Avenue has been changed while walking in Roxborough earlier. Here is the new design:



In my opinion, this is a SIGNIFICANT upgrade over the first design iteration! I'll take several more of these as opposed to some of the uglier buildings that have recently risen along Ridge Avenue.

[PurpleWhiteOut]

Nice, looks way better

[Skintreesnail]

That's pretty classy looking. Seems like nw Philly in general is getting some nice looking low-rise buildings.

[nemesisinphilly]

Originally Posted by UrbanRevival

I've been to the TimeOut in Boston. It was....too corporatized and even more overpriced in my experience.

I honestly preferred the 2019 just-revamped version of the Bourse that I remember, which was definitely pricey but still felt very local and less overtly curated.

If not for the damn COVID, I really think it would have taken off in a sustainable way. I hope it can reinvent itself yet again in a similar way but with a better hook (as others have said, Independence Mall definitely needs to draw more foot traffic again).

I'm not sure what too corporatized means? I've been to the timeouts in Lisbon and New York. The Lisbon one is an incredible success used by both locals and tourists. The NY one less so but still good.

I'm sorry but curation is important especially if it is to work in attracting both tourists and locals.

Tbh I went to the bourse when it first opened and thought it was pretty lackluster. If all the goal is for this place is a slightly higher end food court then I guess we just have different perspectives on what should be here.

IMO the TimeOut model in which most of the vendors are slightly downmarket outposts of standout local restaurants would be ideal. In Lisbon, pretty much every major restaurateur is represented. People with multiple Michelin stars etc. But also more low key sandwich spots. NY has outposts of Wayla, Ess-A-Bagel, Pat Lafrieda, etc.

In order for it to work it needs to appeal to both locals and tourists.

[PHL10]

Does anyone know what's going on at the apartment building on the NE corner of 16th and Spruce? It was a fully occupied building until they decided to completely renovate it. There was construction going on there for at least a year and then they just seemed to pack up and leave months ago. The building has more graffiti on it every time I pass and now has "boner 4 ever" style graffiti going down from the top stories. Really bad.

[nemesisinphilly]

Originally Posted by PHL10

Does anyone know what's going on at the apartment building on the NE corner of 16th and Spruce? It was a fully occupied building until they decided to completely renovate it. There was construction going on there for at least a year and then they just seemed to pack up and leave months ago. The building has more graffiti on it every time I pass and now has "boner 4 ever" style graffiti going down from the top stories. Really bad.

The building was renovated in 2010 but then sold in 2019. Looks like the LLC that bought it just filed for bankruptcy. Google USRE 257 LLC

However looks like the owner - https://www.brixall.com/#PastProjects has other projects that are still operational?

I was in this building maybe 5 years ago when it was still the Bentley. Lower end CC building popular with grad students. Similar to older PMC stock.

[UrbanRevival]

Originally Posted by nemesisinphilly

I'm not sure what too corporatized means? I've been to the timeouts in Lisbon and New York. The Lisbon one is an incredible success used by both locals and tourists. The NY one less so but still good.

..

In order for it to work it needs to appeal to both locals and tourists.

By "corporatized," I mean too transactional and a homogenized feel amongst the vendors. Kind of classic type of place that exists only to portray trendiness and attract Instagram "foodies."

I completely understand the importance of marketing and attracting tourists to well-known brands, but sometimes that means giving up creativity or local flair to the extent that a place becomes vapidly generic. It's a delicate balance that's hard achieve.

Hard to put a finger on it, but this convo is pretty subjective anyway.