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  #3081  
Old Posted Jun 9, 2008, 11:26 AM
hiijakd hiijakd is offline
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anyone want to come to a special event downtown tomorrow night at 5:30. i can only bring a few people so call me and let me know if you are free, you will get some inside scoop on some stuff going on.

334.224.1256
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  #3082  
Old Posted Jun 9, 2008, 7:12 PM
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June 9, 2008

Work begins on Dexter's RSA building



By Phillip Rawls
The Associated Press

Alabama's pension system is moving ahead with construction of a 12-story building in front of the historic state Capitol despite complaints from preservationists that it will damage a view that has inspired citizens for more than 150 years.

David Bronner, chief executive of the Retirement Systems of Alabama, said crews are doing foundation work for the RSA Judicial Office Building and steel will start rising in the fall. Bronner sees it as another step in revitalizing downtown.

"When you add jobs and people, you add viability," he said.

Mary Ann Neely, a Montgomery historian who has helped save many old buildings, said preservationists tried to get the pension program to reduce the height of the office tower, but didn't succeed.

"They were really not interested in what we had to say," she said.

Alabama's Greek revival Capitol was built in 1851 on a hill at the head of Dexter Avenue, Montgomery's main street. The broad avenue begins six blocks away at a fountain located where slave auctions were once held. Downtown Montgomery fans out from that fountain.

Bronner's Judicial Office Building will sit along Dexter Avenue one block in front of the Capitol. Critics say the 500,000-square-foot building will be the highest on Dexter Avenue by three floors, will reach above the Capitol's dome and will overwhelm a view that spans two of the most important periods in American history.

Supporters of the Confederacy saw that view in 1861 when they walked up Dexter Avenue to the Capitol steps to see Jefferson Davis sworn in as the first president of the Confederate States.

A century later, thousands of voting rights marchers walked up that same street and saw the same view as they completed the bloody Selma-to-Montgomery march and listened to the Rev. Martin Luther King Jr. at the Capitol steps in 1965.

"It will power over the Capitol and it will be a hindrance to that classic view we have," Neely said.

Neely led an effort to preserve several blocks of historic buildings within walking distance of the Capitol, but she knows there is no way to stop Bronner from changing the Dexter Avenue view.

"It's something we will have to accustom ourselves to," she said.

David Braly, president of the Landmarks Foundation historic preservation group, said the judicial building will also diminish the historic Dexter Avenue King Memorial Church, located across Dexter Avenue. King served that church when he led the Montgomery Bus Boycott in 1955, and it has become a popular tourist attraction in conjunction with the Capitol.

"It's an equal historic landmark," Braly said.

Bronner has used the state's $30 billion pension program for public employees to reshape downtown Montgomery in the last 20 years, financing two convention hotels and six office buildings, including the tallest in downtown at 23 floors. He also purchased and remodeled two vacant buildings and filled them with workers.

The buildings' occupants are a mix of state agencies and private businesses, and they serve a dual purpose of making money for the pension system and bringing new life to downtown.

Several of Bronner's projects have upset preservationists because old buildings had to be torn down to make way for new. But he figured the Judicial Building would be the opposite.

Bronner proposed to save Alabama's old Supreme Court building, which had been vacant on Dexter Avenue for 15 years, and encapsulate the three-story structure and dome inside the new Judicial Building. The new building will be constructed atop the old building, somewhat like a table. The building has to stretch 12 stories to provide enough space to make it profitable, project manager Ron Blount said.

Despite public meetings and an aggressive letter-writing campaign, preservationists never could get the governor or other prominent state official on their side. The criticism quietly died away after Blount, but not Bronner, met with them.

"They either decided I wasn't going to change my mind and they were wasting their time, or they decided to go on to other projects," Bronner said.
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  #3083  
Old Posted Jun 9, 2008, 8:11 PM
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Alabama considers a new State House

Monday, June 02, 2008
By Bob Gambacurta

As with any economic development project, industry recruiters for the city of Montgomery, Montgomery County and the Montgomery Area Chamber of Commerce must overcome some serious obstacles before they'll be able to land one of the top prizes on their economic development wish list. Unlike other projects, however, the recruiters do not need to travel overseas to meet with the decision makers. The decision makers are right here in Montgomery, at least for part of the year.

The industry target is the Alabama Legislature. The project is a new State House. The prize is getting the Legislature to agree to build a new legislative facility at One Court Square at the opposite end of Dexter Avenue from the State Capitol.

As usual, elected officials like Mayor Bobby Bright and County Commission Chairman Todd Strange are optimistic they can sell their plan to legislative leaders. As usual, the Chamber of Commerce is playing its cards close to the vest and declining to elaborate on the details of the joint city, county and chamber plan.


Several hurdles must be cleared before any decision is made on where to locate a new State House. That the current facility has serious problems is a given. Questions surround efforts to mitigate those problems. Should the Legislature build a new facility, or renovate the current facility? Are any capital improvements warranted under the current economic conditions? In view of the divisive partisanship in the Legislature in recent years, can any decision be made that will satisfy a membership noted for its strong-willed leaders and powerful egos?

Bright and Strange recently sent a letter to the six-member Legislative Building Authority. The letter, which has not been made public, says local officials stand ready to make a more comprehensive proposal when legislative leaders are ready to listen. More importantly the letter assures the committee that local governments will do whatever is necessary to make certain that locating the facility downtown will cost the state no more than locating it in the Capitol complex.


"We will deliver the site to them. We will acquire, prepare and deliver the land to them," Bright says. He estimates the cost of land acquisition and preparation at between $8 million and $10 million. Some legislative leaders believe land costs will be closer to $25 million.

"We will make sure the costs are the same either way. We can't ask them to spend more taxpayer dollars just to put it downtown," Strange says. "We are ready to make our proposal, to address our thoughts of why down there and why now. Once they buy into our concept, we will create an innovative partnership between the city, county, the chamber and the Legislature,"

The site local officials are prepared to deliver includes the old Pizitz building at 1 Court Square and the rest of the block, including the parking deck, King's Castle, Cool Beans, the Olive Room and Nobles.

With the Capitol at one end of Dexter Avenue and the State House at the other, Bright envisions a "government mall" similar to the nation's Capitol complex in Washington, where the National Mall stretches between the U.S. Capitol and the Lincoln Memorial. Bright says the project would be the final jewel in making downtown renovation an overwhelming success.

Bright foresees the empty storefronts along Dexter Avenue filling up with lobbying groups and trade associations. His plan places the new legislative facility within walking distance of the Convention Center, Riverwalk Stadium, downtown restaurants and hotels including the new Renaissance Montgomery Hotel & Spa at the Convention Center.


"It would rejuvenate our Capitol City," Bright says. "But it's a slow process. Our biggest obstacle is the current economy. With the current budget problems, it's difficult to get the Legislature to focus on a new State House. When they do it, let's get it down here. We want to show them what we can do. We don't want to be left out in the cold."

Strange asks "if we're going to build a new State House, why hide it behind the Capitol?"

Long-time Clerk of the House of Representatives, Greg Pappas has advocated building a new State House for a number of years. He is all too familiar with the problems the current building poses for lawmakers and staff.

"The roof leaks. We have a horrible mold problem. And, we're seriously overcrowded. The limited space is the most annoying thing. When we're in session the halls are so crowded you can't move. We have more than 650 registered lobbyists. We used to issue seven press credentials to cover the Legislature. Today it's 400-450 press.


"Committee rooms only hold 45 people and the Fire Marshall has cracked down on overcrowding. On Wednesdays we have to post guards at the committee rooms. This past session a member of the Rules Committee couldn't get into one meeting. The guards wouldn't let him in because the room was full.

"There's no room for the public and some days we have groups of 500 to 1,000 people show up. It's an old building, built as an office building not a legislative building. Heating and cooling costs twice what a new building would cost," Pappas says.

It would be cost prohibitive to renovate the existing building according to Pappas. He says remodeling the Department of Public Safety building is costing $300 per square foot, well more than what building a new building would cost.

Pappas is less concerned with where the new facility is built, than he is with building a new facility and "doing it right, like the Capitol renovation was done." An all inclusive building, designed as a legislative facility not an office building, with a parking deck could cost as much as $300 million according to Pappas, but "first we must decide the site."


State Rep. Richard Laird, D-Roanoke, is chairman of the Legislative Building Authority. He is no fan of locating a new legislative facility downtown, several blocks away from the Capitol.

"The best plan is to build a legislative annex, attached to the Capitol. It's ridiculous to locate it downtown. Even if there's no difference in cost and all things are equal, it's still ridiculous," Laird says. He wants to block off Union Street and build into the parking lot on the east side of the Capitol

"I recommended to the authority in February a 5-story building with a one-story wing across Union and connected to the Capitol. It would cost $138 million to build, compared to $166 million to renovate the existing building," Laird says. He plans on holding a major press briefing on the feasibility of a new facility "in the next couple of weeks, depending on the special session."

The Legislative Building Authority recently commissioned an architect's study, which placed the cost of a 220,000 square foot legislative facility and parking deck at $170 million. The study also said design flaws in the old Highway Department Building, built in 1963 and renovated into the State House in 1982, make renovation cost prohibitive.


The head of the Retirement Systems of Alabama, David Bronner has built his share of buildings in the last number of years. He says renovating an old building has inherent problems such as heating and cooling, asbestos removal and things like elevator shafts too small to accommodate modern day elevators.

"You can't make it work. Renovating the current State House is big a waste of money, as big of a waste today as it was when they renovated it to begin with. I was opposed to it then, too," Bronner says.

Bronner favors building a new building attached to the Capitol. "That was my recommendation twenty years ago. That hasn't changed."

City, county and chamber officials believe that given the chance, they can overcome objections similar to those expressed by Laird. But first, the Legislature must decide to build a new facility. In the present legislative atmosphere that may take a while.
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  #3084  
Old Posted Jun 9, 2008, 8:49 PM
hiijakd hiijakd is offline
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bronner and laird are in the same boat, that isn't good. and closing off union street DUMB DUMB DUMB!
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  #3085  
Old Posted Jun 10, 2008, 12:15 PM
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Union gets far too much traffic to close. There's already a tunnel underneath Union. And what about a bridge over Union? A one story connector isn't worth closing the street.
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  #3086  
Old Posted Jun 10, 2008, 1:33 PM
nayrlladnar nayrlladnar is offline
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I'm not sure I "get" all the negativity pointed in David Bronner's general direction. I like what he is doing for Montgomery and the rest of the state. Someone should explain to all the waspy old "preservationist" that it's OK to progress... Montgomery can be a modern city and still embrace its rich history. To get your panties in a twist because someone wants to take an abandoned building and get some use out of it is a little extreme in my mind. So what that its planned to be 12 stories tall? I wish it were 50 stories tall.
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  #3087  
Old Posted Jun 10, 2008, 3:03 PM
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Originally Posted by nayrlladnar View Post
I'm not sure I "get" all the negativity pointed in David Bronner's general direction. I like what he is doing for Montgomery and the rest of the state. Someone should explain to all the waspy old "preservationist" that it's OK to progress... Montgomery can be a modern city and still embrace its rich history. To get your panties in a twist because someone wants to take an abandoned building and get some use out of it is a little extreme in my mind. So what that its planned to be 12 stories tall? I wish it were 50 stories tall.
I wish it had easily accessible retail/bar/restaurant/etc at the ground level.
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  #3088  
Old Posted Jun 10, 2008, 4:01 PM
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Originally Posted by OldCloverdale View Post
I wish it had easily accessible retail/bar/restaurant/etc at the ground level.
By this do you mean open the front door and 'BAM' your in a restaurant? If people are going to walk anywhere downtown to get something to eat, what is a few extra steps going to hurt. Except for the main RSA Building and the CJC all of the others have restaurants and two even have small retail shops, one even has a Barber Shop. I see people all the time walking in these buildings just to go to these shops and restaurants.

Im not being difficult...just trying to better understand your side.
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  #3089  
Old Posted Jun 10, 2008, 4:25 PM
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Originally Posted by RSAHort View Post
By this do you mean open the front door and 'BAM' your in a restaurant? If people are going to walk anywhere downtown to get something to eat, what is a few extra steps going to hurt. Except for the main RSA Building and the CJC all of the others have restaurants and two even have small retail shops, one even has a Barber Shop. I see people all the time walking in these buildings just to go to these shops and restaurants.

Im not being difficult...just trying to better understand your side.
Yep -- I mean direct access to the shops, etc. instead of entering the building and searching for the businesses...

Who really knows there's a Subway at the RSA Union? How about a restaurant/bar that wants to open before/stay open after regular hours?
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  #3090  
Old Posted Jun 10, 2008, 4:47 PM
nayrlladnar nayrlladnar is offline
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In the Grand Scheme of things I'm sure not a lot of people know the Subway inside the RSA Union exists, but it sure is packed at 11:15am.
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  #3091  
Old Posted Jun 10, 2008, 5:34 PM
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The issue is not with the preservation of the Court Building/Masonic Temple, as Dr. Bronner continues to mistakenly assert. I don't think there is really all that much love for the building, and not many tears would be shed if it were to go away all together.

The issue is the choice of the building that goes there. The proposed building is too tall, of the wrong aesthetic, and barely addresses the street on the Dexter side, and does not address the other three streets at all.
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  #3092  
Old Posted Jun 10, 2008, 5:41 PM
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In the Grand Scheme of things I'm sure not a lot of people know the Subway inside the RSA Union exists, but it sure is packed at 11:15am.
Isn't that the truth. I am in the Folsom Administrative Building and (more often than not) a QUICK trip over to the Subway in the RSA Union, is not a QUICK trip at all!

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  #3093  
Old Posted Jun 10, 2008, 6:39 PM
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what if there was a Subway, a "meat & three," a Chik-fil-a, a gift store, a men's clothing store, a dry cleaning service, a 24-hour diner, and a small burger joint/bar with a little live music on the bottom floor of one of the RSA buildings?

wouldn't it seem better for Montgomery than these ...and the other RSA ground levels?



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  #3094  
Old Posted Jun 10, 2008, 7:59 PM
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Originally Posted by OldCloverdale View Post
what if there was a Subway, a "meat & three," a Chik-fil-a, a gift store, a men's clothing store, a dry cleaning service, a 24-hour diner, and a small burger joint/bar with a little live music on the bottom floor of one of the RSA buildings?

Isn't there a Chik-fil-a and gift store in the RSA Tower?
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  #3095  
Old Posted Jun 10, 2008, 8:17 PM
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Isn't there a Chik-fil-a and gift store in the RSA Tower?
A visitor to Montgomery like myself wouldn't know the answer to that question - and therefore wouldn't patronize the shops without a street entrance.

...and that's part of the problem.
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  #3096  
Old Posted Jun 10, 2008, 8:21 PM
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Isn't there a Chik-fil-a and gift store in the RSA Tower?

Yes. However, it is all ala carte. They do not have combos.
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  #3097  
Old Posted Jun 10, 2008, 8:33 PM
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Originally Posted by | BRAVO | View Post
A visitor to Montgomery like myself wouldn't know the answer to that question - and therefore wouldn't patronize the shops without a street entrance.

...and that's part of the problem.
True. That's the reason I asked about it.
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  #3098  
Old Posted Jun 10, 2008, 8:54 PM
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Originally Posted by bystander1 View Post
Isn't there a Chik-fil-a and gift store in the RSA Tower?
that's why I used those two in my examples

but who would know unless you enter the building?

I'm talking about direct, street-level access

Last edited by OldCloverdale; Jun 11, 2008 at 12:53 PM.
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  #3099  
Old Posted Jun 10, 2008, 9:03 PM
hiijakd hiijakd is offline
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i am one of the preservationists and i am neither "waspy" nor "old" i also fully understand the modernization of a historic city and the direction we need to go to compete with other popular cities of our size. my issue with Bronner is his lack of concern for any opinion other than his and his lack of consideration of the smart code and what his resources could do for our city. with the same amount of investment he could have easily renovated all of Dexter Ave. and really created a destination that we could all be proud of rather than another fortress to himself that has no street interaction. i won't get into all of it because we have been there before on this site and it never does any good, but Bronner could make an even larger impact if he used some more "modern" principles in his investment.
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  #3100  
Old Posted Jun 11, 2008, 2:13 AM
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i am one of the preservationists and i am neither "waspy" nor "old" i also fully understand the modernization of a historic city and the direction we need to go to compete with other popular cities of our size. my issue with Bronner is his lack of concern for any opinion other than his and his lack of consideration of the smart code and what his resources could do for our city. with the same amount of investment he could have easily renovated all of Dexter Ave. and really created a destination that we could all be proud of rather than another fortress to himself that has no street interaction. i won't get into all of it because we have been there before on this site and it never does any good, but Bronner could make an even larger impact if he used some more "modern" principles in his investment.
Well put! I did not have the energy to reply and try and educate anyone on this issue. You did a great job of summing it all up. Just to add to what hiijakd expressed, there was a WIDE spectrum of concerned individuals at meetings that were held on the subject of the RSA Judicial Building. "Waspy" and "old" were represented, but so were LOTS of other types of people...
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