The Climate Change Discussion Thread

[FarmerHaight]

Originally Posted by whatnext

So despite all the prevaricating it is pretty clear who is adding to GHG emissions right now, not in some hypothetical future.

If the metric is "adding to GHG emissions", pretty much every country in the world is not doing enough, because de-intensifying emissions can't keep up with population growth.

Originally Posted by whatnext

I guess they don't like to share or they are protected by their ties to The Party.

Do you have no clue how per capita numbers work? Yes, China has severe income inequality just the same as the western world. Yes, China has a lot of billionaires that have made their money by exploiting people just like the western world. But no, China is not nearly as rich per person as western countries. If you disperse a country's wealth evenly among all citizens, all Canadians (43k / person) could afford to rent a decent apartment, buy groceries, save for retirement, and maybe even take a modest vacation. Meanwhile, Chinese (11k / person) wouldn't even exceed the basic personal amount and would need to rely on food banks and subsidized housing.

[acottawa]

Originally Posted by Truenorth00

Correct. Poorer countries rely on dirtier power because the developed world failed to deliver the financing promised. Add India and soon Africa to the pile. Maybe if folks like you really lecture them hard enough, they'll choose energy poverty to let you live in first world comfort, with your outsized carbon footprint. I have my doubts that this is a viable strategy though.

China in no way lacks for financing. They managed to find 850 billlion for high speed trains, hundreds of billions for zany water schemes, plus financing for 65 million empty houses (in a country with a shrinking population).

What China is doing is exploiting the useful idiots (as Lenin would say) in the West who will justify anything the CCP does, to get coal and oil cheap for China’s actual energy consumption to sell energy intensive “green” products to the same useful idiots.

The actual result of this is of course massive GHG emissions, but that doesn’t seem to matter as long as people can praise the CCP.

[Truenorth00]

Originally Posted by acottawa

China in no way lacks for financing. They managed to find 850 billlion for high speed trains, hundreds of billions for zany water schemes, plus financing for 65 million empty houses (in a country with a shrinking population).

Yes, they should have built sprawling, highly suburbanized auto-dependent cities. Just imagine how much better their emissions would be if they developed like us.

[ssiguy]

What WE are currently doing on this thread is part of the problem............engaging in the blame game which accomplishes nothing for our long suffering planet.

We must offer poorer countries both the carrot and the stick in order to help them decarbonize. That means offering both financial supports and economic penalties. This means INTERNATIONAL duties and damn heavy ones.

The advantage of such a system is that is doesn't need universal acceptance to work. Europe can develope such a system by itself if you want to trade with them and ditto for NA or even just individual countries. Also by targeting specific industries {ie coal electricity, EV adoption, natural areas protection} and then imposing the tariffs on a national level is that the GHG data cannot be manipulated by central governments.........you either have these industries following the rules or you don't.

[Truenorth00]

Originally Posted by ssiguy

What WE are currently doing on this thread is part of the problem............engaging in the blame game which accomplishes nothing for our long suffering planet.

We must offer poorer countries both the carrot and the stick in order to help them decarbonize. That means offering both financial supports and economic penalties. This means INTERNATIONAL duties and damn heavy ones.

We can start by not criticizing countries that choose to heavily invest in public transport.

[Peggerino]

I don't see why countries in the developing world would trust a word of what we say about lowering emissions when we haven't done it ourselves even though we're relatively prosperous, peaceful and well run compared to most other countries. To me, it seems incredibly hypocritical to be slamming the Chinas and Indias of the world while we're making no contribution to the fight against climate change (we're still cutting old-growth in BC, still drilling for oil in AB, still building shitty car-dependent suburbs and still destroying many of our lakes). I'm sure that with proper leadership from the Feds and Provinces, we could actually be a role model country and would have some ground to stand on, but right now, we don't.

Unfortunately, there's a good chunk of our population that doesn't believe in climate change or thinks it's going to not impact us/benefit us and therefore make no effort whatsoever to do anything about it. Heck, based on the trucks people drive and feedback I get biking, it seems like lots of people think it's wimpy if you care about the environment. Then there's also the large group of people who say it's a problem but still vote for the party that doesn't believe in it cause of SJWs or other stupid shit.

[Truenorth00]

There's also a ton of people (including some on this forum) who think simply lecturing India and China will give us a pass.

[MolsonExport]

Originally Posted by peggerino

i don't see why countries in the developing world would trust a word of what we say about lowering emissions when we haven't done it ourselves even though we're relatively prosperous, peaceful and well run compared to most other countries. To me, it seems incredibly hypocritical to be slamming the chinas and indias of the world while we're making no contribution to the fight against climate change (we're still cutting old-growth in bc, still drilling for oil in ab, still building shitty car-dependent suburbs and still destroying many of our lakes). I'm sure that with proper leadership from the feds and provinces, we could actually be a role model country and would have some ground to stand on, but right now, we don't.

Unfortunately, there's a good chunk of our population that doesn't believe in climate change or thinks it's going to not impact us/benefit us and therefore make no effort whatsoever to do anything about it. Heck, based on the trucks people drive and feedback i get biking, it seems like lots of people think it's seen as wimpy if you care about the environment. Then there's also the large group of people who say it's a problem but still vote for the party that doesn't believe in it cause of sjws or other stupid shit.

+1

[O-tacular]

Originally Posted by Truenorth00

There's also a ton of people (including some on this forum) who think simply lecturing India and China will give us a pass.

I see it less as lecturing than performative outrage for a domestic audience. The sole intention is to make Canadians feel that no efforts we make will be great enough to help. It's pure whataboutism.

[ssiguy]

I agree that many countries in the West {Canada very much included} talk out of both sides of their mouths. This is why I support international tariffs and not so much national ones.

If Canada brought in such tariffs/duties on other countries and did nothing ourselves, we too would suffer the consequences. Our fine sensibilities would go up in smoke if we don't do anything because we too would have our exports pulverized by such areas as the EU.

The problem with the Paris Agreement is that it is just a guideline but nothing more. It's like driving...........speed limits mean nothing if they are not enforced. All Paris does it for those non-complying nations is wag it's finger and say "shame on you".

Unfortunately, money makes our world go round and only the threat of losing it will make us change course.

[CivicBlues]

Originally Posted by ssiguy

I agree that many countries in the West {Canada very much included} talk out of both sides of their mouths. This is why I support international tariffs and not so much national ones.

If Canada brought in such tariffs/duties on other countries and did nothing ourselves, we too would suffer the consequences. Our fine sensibilities would go up in smoke if we don't do anything because we too would have our exports pulverized by such areas as the EU.

The problem with the Paris Agreement is that it is just a guideline but nothing more. It's like driving...........speed limits mean nothing if they are not enforced. All Paris does it for those non-complying nations is wag it's finger and say "shame on you".

Unfortunately, money makes our world go round and only the threat of losing it will make us change course.

Repeating gibberish twice doesn't make it any more coherent the 2nd time.

[FarmerHaight]

Originally Posted by Peggerino

we're still cutting old-growth in BC, still drilling for oil in AB, still building shitty car-dependent suburbs and still destroying many of our lakes

You can add to that list that the Alberta UCP re-opened the foothills of the Rockies to open-pit coal mining.

[O-tacular]

Originally Posted by FarmerHaight

You can add to that list that the Alberta UCP re-opened the foothills of the Rockies to open-pit coal mining.

Yes. One of the biggest environmental threats in the country that gets little airplay outside of Alberta. Saskatchewan and Manitoba should be very concerned but they seem oblivious to the threat facing their water supply. They should see what's happened to the Elk Valley in BC for a preview of how it's polluting water in Montana.

[ssiguy]

Originally Posted by CivicBlues

Repeating gibberish twice doesn't make it any more coherent the 2nd time.

I've noticed that you consistently harshly critique everything everyone else says but not offer any alternatives yourself. Bitching is easy and requires little thought so why don't you actually put some thought into your own comments and tell us what your solution is as opposed to complaining about everyone else's?

[Airboy]

So was doing a quick calculation on current planned or under construction Solar PV Projects in Alberta. These are the ones already announced. I know there are others coming but those are on facility upgrade projects.

Current Solar PV Planned. 2386.9MW at about $2.8 billion. The biggest is a 465MW project at $700 mil.

[DoubleK]

Germany is going to be interesting to watch over the next few days. Low gas volumes, low temperatures and no wind.

Power futures in Germany and France are spiking. Think I saw €315/MWh in France on Bloomberg last night.

[WarrenC12]

Originally Posted by DoubleK

Germany is going to be interesting to watch over the next few days. Low gas volumes, low temperatures and no wind.

Power futures in Germany and France are spiking. Think I saw €315/MWh in France on Bloomberg last night.

Why low gas volumes? Is Russia playing games?

[rofina]

Originally Posted by WarrenC12

Why low gas volumes? Is Russia playing games?

Correct. But! Russia says it has nothing to do with threat of sanctions, or the Ukrainian situation of course.

https://www.reuters.com/business/ene...ws-2021-12-21/

Westward gas flows through the Yamal-Europe pipeline, one of the major routes for Russian gas to Europe, had been falling since Saturday and, after stopping early on Tuesday, reversed direction, data from network operator Gascade showed.

[blueandgoldguy]

Last week on the radio, I heard (southern) Manitoba needed more snow than average, colder weather than average and fewer sunny days on average this winter in order to avoid the possibility of water conservation measures next summer. This of course assumes we receive at least average or higher than average rainfall next year as well.

Several lakes in Manitoba are down several feet, including one (I think Lake Minnedosa) down 9 feet! This is a culmination of 3 years of rainfall well below normal and 2-3 years of snowfall well below normal leading to drought conditions in several parts of southern Manitoba.

Here's hoping for a cold, snowy winter in the Peg and surrounding regions!

[Truenorth00]

Yep. Those people who keep arguing that climate change will be great for Canada, keep being proven wrong by Mother Nature.