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  #3061  
Old Posted Dec 13, 2023, 11:02 PM
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Anybody who is against a dictatorial kleptocracy should have a healthy dose of Sinophobia as you call it. The question should be, why don't you? It has nothing to do with the Chinse people and everything to do with the Chinese state.
Totally tangential to the Canadian EV thread.
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  #3062  
Old Posted Dec 13, 2023, 11:36 PM
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Originally Posted by Changing City View Post
Totally tangential to the Canadian EV thread.
And yet you brought it up.
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  #3063  
Old Posted Dec 13, 2023, 11:39 PM
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Ruh-roh:

Tesla recalling over 2 million cars in the U.S. and Canada over system that checks if drivers are alert
U.S. safety regulators say company will send out software update to fix problems
The Associated Press · Posted: Dec 13, 2023

Tesla is recalling more than two million vehicles it sold in the U.S. and 193,000 sold in Canada to fix a defective system that is supposed to ensure drivers are paying attention when they use Autopilot.

Documents posted Wednesday by U.S. safety regulators say the company will send out a software update to fix the problems, and notification letters are "expected to be mailed" to vehicle owners on Feb. 10, 2024.

It's unclear when the software update will be available and whether it will be automatically applied or if it is voluntary.

The recall comes after a two-year investigation by the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA) into a series of crashes that happened while the Autopilot partially automated driving system was in use. Some were deadly....


https://www.cbc.ca/news/business/tes...l-us-1.7057694
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  #3064  
Old Posted Dec 13, 2023, 11:57 PM
WarrenC12 WarrenC12 is offline
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Originally Posted by whatnext View Post
Ruh-roh:

U.S. safety regulators say company will send out software update to fix problems
Has happened dozens of times already.
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  #3065  
Old Posted Dec 13, 2023, 11:59 PM
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Originally Posted by whatnext View Post
And yet you brought it up.
China builds electric vehicles that are considered 'world-leading' despite you deprecating Chinese engineering. They're already sold in Canada. China has leapfrogged over the Japanese and European car makers by investing in ev technology, and are already supplying cobalt-free batteries. But then, you're mostly on this site to troll anyway.
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  #3066  
Old Posted Dec 14, 2023, 3:32 AM
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There's a Dutch guy I follow on Twitter/X @ Tycho de Feijter who will keep you updated on the fascinating Chinese automotive industry. Hardly a day goes by without another EV launch. Many of these cars are designed and engineered by Westerners living in China.
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  #3067  
Old Posted Dec 14, 2023, 5:18 AM
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Originally Posted by Changing City View Post
China builds electric vehicles that are considered 'world-leading' despite you deprecating Chinese engineering. They're already sold in Canada. China has leapfrogged over the Japanese and European car makers by investing in ev technology, and are already supplying cobalt-free batteries. But then, you're mostly on this site to troll anyway.
What Chinese brand had cars that are being sold in Canada?
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  #3068  
Old Posted Dec 14, 2023, 5:32 AM
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Originally Posted by whatnext View Post
What Chinese brand had cars that are being sold in Canada?
Where did I say anything about a Chinese brand?
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  #3069  
Old Posted Dec 14, 2023, 7:51 AM
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Night of the Teslas.

Quote:
Originally Posted by whatnext View Post
Ruh-roh:

Tesla recalling over 2 million cars in the U.S. and Canada over system that checks if drivers are alert
U.S. safety regulators say company will send out software update to fix problems
The Associated Press · Posted: Dec 13, 2023

Tesla is recalling more than two million vehicles it sold in the U.S. and 193,000 sold in Canada to fix a defective system that is supposed to ensure drivers are paying attention when they use Autopilot.

Documents posted Wednesday by U.S. safety regulators say the company will send out a software update to fix the problems, and notification letters are "expected to be mailed" to vehicle owners on Feb. 10, 2024.

It's unclear when the software update will be available and whether it will be automatically applied or if it is voluntary.

The recall comes after a two-year investigation by the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA) into a series of crashes that happened while the Autopilot partially automated driving system was in use. Some were deadly....


https://www.cbc.ca/news/business/tes...l-us-1.7057694


The publicity from this movie doesn't help Tesla either. I just saw the movie; I thought the Tesla scene was both funny and ominous, fair game for subject matter in an apocalypse movie, artfully weaponizing the autopilot.

Quote:
Netflix’s New Apocalypse Movie Involves Self-Driving Teslas Going Kamikaze
https://futurism.com/netflix-apocalypse-movie-teslas
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  #3070  
Old Posted Dec 14, 2023, 11:48 AM
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What’s the hold up on us getting Chinese cars anyways? They’re everywhere now. They’re common in Australia, the Middle East, and even in Europe. Is Canada just not a significant enough market?
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  #3071  
Old Posted Dec 14, 2023, 11:52 AM
Truenorth00 Truenorth00 is offline
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Originally Posted by whatnext View Post
Anybody who is against a dictatorial kleptocracy should have a healthy dose of Sinophobia as you call it. The question should be, why don't you? It has nothing to do with the Chinse people and everything to do with the Chinese state.
If you don't want Chinese EVs, you should be supporting policies that build up EV supply chains here. Simply whining against EVs isn't going to work. That kind of whining is what convinced Western OEMs they didn't have to invest in EVs right away and what led to them falling substantially behind China. My question to people who always whine about EVs is simple, "Why do you want to cede the next generation of auto manufacturing to China?"
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  #3072  
Old Posted Dec 14, 2023, 2:34 PM
OldDartmouthMark OldDartmouthMark is offline
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Originally Posted by Changing City View Post
Where did I say anything about a Chinese brand?
Which vehicles are being sold in Canada that have been engineered in China?

Also, FWIW, production of VWs in China or the US does not equate to them being engineered there.
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  #3073  
Old Posted Dec 14, 2023, 2:53 PM
OldDartmouthMark OldDartmouthMark is offline
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Originally Posted by Truenorth00 View Post
If you don't want Chinese EVs, you should be supporting policies that build up EV supply chains here. Simply whining against EVs isn't going to work. That kind of whining is what convinced Western OEMs they didn't have to invest in EVs right away and what led to them falling substantially behind China. My question to people who always whine about EVs is simple, "Why do you want to cede the next generation of auto manufacturing to China?"
I agree that we should be pushing for EV development and supply chains in Canada.

However I can’t equate pointing out EV issues as ceding anything to China, or even being anti-EV, as some like to assert. IMHO, recognizing the shortcomings of a technology is the best way to advance the technology. Defending faults helps to protect one’s ego, perhaps, but doesn’t really do anything constructive.

I think it’s also relevant to say that blaming ‘whiners’ for lack of North American EV development is a little off target. It’s pretty clear that the EV market would be very behind where it is now if it weren’t for government intervention. If left to the free market, EV development would probably have followed a similar path as hybrids, perhaps a little accelerated due to awareness about climate change. The vast majority of automakers perceived the natural future as a gradual transition to EVs (or no transition, in some cases), not a forced one that favours a company that exists merely because it could profit by selling emissions credits in its formative years.

Not saying that it’s a bad thing, because IMHO an accelerated transition is needed to deal with the climate crisis, but let’s try to be accurate.
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  #3074  
Old Posted Dec 14, 2023, 10:02 PM
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Not content with being one of the world's richest men, Elon Musk never misses an opportunity to prove what a douchebag he is.

Tesla’s Nordic Dispute Sparks Angry Letter From Money Managers
Investor group calls on Tesla’s board to adopt Nordic model
Combined region is bigger market than Germany for carmaker
By Sanne Wass and Jonas Ekblom
December 14, 2023 at 6:38 AM PST

Tesla Inc.’s showdown with trade unions across the Nordic region is threatening to spill over to the financial markets after a group of pension funds and asset managers sent a letter to Elon Musk urging him to change course.

Nordic institutional investors managing a total of $1 trillion in assets said they are “deeply concerned” about Tesla’s attitude to worker rights in Sweden and demanded the carmaker accept collective bargaining agreements for its staff, according to a letter sent Thursday and seen by Bloomberg News. Signatories to the letter include Denmark’s Velliv Pension & Livsforsikring A/S and AkademikerPension.

The group of at least 15 investors called out Tesla’s sustainability credentials over its challenge to the so-called “Nordic Model” by not letting mechanics at seven of its Swedish repair shops sign up to an agreement that covers basic rights such as minimum pay and gender equality. They also pointed out how the same model has benefited Tesla in building up “a significant market share” in the region, which trumps even Germany when it comes to deliveries of cars.

While the investors didn’t use the letter to threaten to sell the shares they hold in Tesla, cracks are beginning to appear elsewhere. Last week saw Danish fund PensionDanmark A/S become the first major asset manager in the region to publicly dump shares in the electric vehicle maker as a result of the conflict, selling its $69 million stake.

The dispute that began in October has already upended Tesla’s operations in the region as sympathy actions from other trade unions have spread to dockworkers in neighboring Denmark, Finland and Norway. From next week Tesla will have to transport its cars bound for Sweden via trucks from continental Europe.

The escalating blockade has extended beyond deliveries to registration plates and even trash collection at Tesla’s premises. Swedish postal workers have for several weeks refused to handle any mail or packages bound for Tesla locations, halting the delivery of license plates to dealerships....


https://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...&sref=x4rjnz06
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  #3075  
Old Posted Dec 14, 2023, 10:32 PM
Truenorth00 Truenorth00 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OldDartmouthMark View Post
Which vehicles are being sold in Canada that have been engineered in China?

Also, FWIW, production of VWs in China or the US does not equate to them being engineered there.
A lot of EVs are engineered in China. And they are exporting a lot of them to Europe. To the point that European authorities and industry are genuinely worried about their own EV sector getting swamped. And not just the EV sector. China has now surpassed Germany in auto exports.

We've been substantially isolated from Chinese auto exports in North America. But it is starting. Polestars. Teslas. Volvos. Etc. Heck, Ford is about to shift production of the Lincoln Nautilus from Canada to China.
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  #3076  
Old Posted Dec 14, 2023, 11:33 PM
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Originally Posted by Truenorth00 View Post
A lot of EVs are engineered in China. And they are exporting a lot of them to Europe. To the point that European authorities and industry are genuinely worried about their own EV sector getting swamped. And not just the EV sector. China has now surpassed Germany in auto exports.

We've been substantially isolated from Chinese auto exports in North America. But it is starting. Polestars. Teslas. Volvos. Etc. Heck, Ford is about to shift production of the Lincoln Nautilus from Canada to China.
Ah yes, Polestar:

Chinese Billionaire’s Auto Empire Hits a Road Block
-As equity markets sour on Chinese EV makers, some of Geely’s brands are turning to riskier funding.
December 13, 2023 at 12:21 AM PST
By Chris Bryant

Chinese billionaire Li Shufu’s attempt to create a global automotive empire to rival Volkswagen AG has hit a road block, as equity markets sour on electric-vehicle companies amid worries about a price sapping oversupply and rising trade tensions between China and the West.

Polestar Automotive Holding and Lotus Technology Inc., two electric brands nurtured by Li, have turned to riskier funding to pay for their rapid international expansion, while Li’s Zhejiang Geely Holding Group Co. has high borrowings and appears to carefully guard its own capital...

....The company’s various subsidiaries together sold more than 2.3 million vehicles in 2022. Some of them share factories, purchasing and vehicle servicing to reduce costs, but several have low margins or lose money because they lack scale.

Most have also set very ambitious international sales targets requiring heavy investment: Volvo anticipates all of its sales will be electric by 2030, and it plans to stop manufacturing diesels early next year, for example. “Unlike some other OEMS pushing the brake pedal on EV investments, we do not expect Volvo to delay anything,” UBS Group AG analysts wrote last week.

When Volvo and its electric offshoot Polestar listed shares in 2021 and 2022, together they raised around $3.5 billion. At their peaks, each was valued at close to $30 billion. Credit-rating companies were hopeful similar transactions would help Geely Holding cut debt....

...Volvo and Polestar’s shares have slumped to record lows in recent weeks, while those of Hong-Kong listed Geely Automobile Holdings Ltd. are near a seven-year low, as rising EV sales and growing competition weigh on margins. Li’s personal net worth has shrunk to around $9.3 billion from a peak of $32.6 billion in 2021, according to the Bloomberg Billionaires Index...

....Polestar’s ride has been even bumpier. Reflecting its rapid international expansion and the costs of launching several new models, the Swedish brand has burned around $3.5 billion of cash since the start of 2022 – an astonishing sum considering it outsources manufacturing to its owners (as Zeekr and Lotus also do). 1Volvo owns just under half of Polestar, while a Li-owned entity controls almost 40%. A Geely affiliate owns 79% of Volvo.

Having cut jobs earlier this year, lowered production targets and adjusted manufacturing plans to avoid US import tariffs on Chinese-made autos, Polestar said last month it needs $1.3 billion in external equity or debt funding to reach cash flow breakeven by 2025. This figure doesn’t include a combined $450 million in convertible loans recently pledged by Volvo and a Geely Holding affiliate.

Unusually for a loss-making startup, Polestar has already amassed $3 billion of total borrowings, which includes almost $2 billion of short-term loans mostly provided by Chinese banks.....


https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/ar...?sref=x4rjnz06
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  #3077  
Old Posted Dec 14, 2023, 11:54 PM
Truenorth00 Truenorth00 is offline
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Originally Posted by whatnext View Post
Okay? Does that refute the reality of China's growing auto exports?

I'm not even a person who likes China's auto exports. I'm happy for our auto sector to go to the mat with them. Unfortunately, the only reason Western automakers are so uncompetitive is because of folks like you who dismiss the threat or argued that he tech like EVs are not important markets to compete in.
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  #3078  
Old Posted Dec 15, 2023, 12:14 AM
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Originally Posted by Truenorth00 View Post
Okay? Does that refute the reality of China's growing auto exports?

I'm not even a person who likes China's auto exports. I'm happy for our auto sector to go to the mat with them. Unfortunately, the only reason Western automakers are so uncompetitive is because of folks like you who dismiss the threat or argued that he tech like EVs are not important markets to compete in.
Oh, I absolutely think they're a threat. Canada should implement a 25% tariff just as the USA did. But ultimately global capitalism will sell us out to China on EVs just as they did with other manufacturing in late 1990s and early 2000s. Tesla and VWs investments there prove it.
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  #3079  
Old Posted Dec 15, 2023, 1:08 AM
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Polestar is launching some gorgeous new models next year. VW just showed off the ID2 interior - looks good.
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  #3080  
Old Posted Dec 15, 2023, 1:13 AM
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Originally Posted by theman23 View Post
What’s the hold up on us getting Chinese cars anyways? They’re everywhere now. They’re common in Australia, the Middle East, and even in Europe. Is Canada just not a significant enough market?
maybe trade rules? In Peru, Lima especially, there are so many Chinese brands of cars. I never saw any EVs at all, however. They also had two Korean brands we don't have in Canada and they still have Suzuki which pulled out of Canada a few years ago.
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