CHICAGO | Politics and Current Events

[the urban politician]

Originally Posted by moorhosj1

You are here, talking about it without persecution. One of our nation’s two political parties is entirely based on the concept. It’s hardly the taboo you claim.

You’re posts are focused on “personal responsibility” and LVDW is speaking of “societal responsibility”. They both have a place in the discussion, but as people who don’t live in these neighborhoods, it can come off as disingenuous or even victim-blaming.

A child who grows up in this area is not at fault for the decades of disinvestment (from public and private). They blatantly do not have the same opportunity as someone who grows up in Lincoln Park (from lead pipes to food desserts to bad schools). Trying to boil the difference down to “personal responsibility” misses the whole boat. If we actually wanted to discuss single parenthood, we’d need to get into the factors that lead to single parenthood instead of just highlighting the outcome as bias reinforcement.

I love how you come in here and try to “debate” people appearing like some moderate, when it’s pretty obvious that it’s all BS. You’re obviously a Leftist with your stripes disguised. Waste of time...

And LVDW? Give me a break with his new “wokeness”, I don’t buy it for a second. He cares about his bottom line as he has invested in the area in question and wants a ROI. Money is the bottom line for everybody, these arguments aren’t about right or wrong, they are about a power struggle for wealth and resources—and ALL parties involved are self-centered.

[tjp]

Let's keep all non-Beauty and the Beast discussion out of this thread, guys.

[moorhosj1]

Originally Posted by the urban politician

I love how you come in here and try to “debate” people appearing like some moderate, when it’s pretty obvious that it’s all BS. You’re obviously a Leftist with your stripes disguised. Waste of time...

When the topic is something I know about, like developmental economics, I chime in. Your need to label and insult anyone with a differing opinion is bizarre.

[LouisVanDerWright]

Originally Posted by the urban politician

I love how you come in here and try to “debate” people appearing like some moderate, when it’s pretty obvious that it’s all BS. You’re obviously a Leftist with your stripes disguised. Waste of time...

And LVDW? Give me a break with his new “wokeness”, I don’t buy it for a second. He cares about his bottom line as he has invested in the area in question and wants a ROI. Money is the bottom line for everybody, these arguments aren’t about right or wrong, they are about a power struggle for wealth and resources—and ALL parties involved are self-centered.

Lol in what world are profitable development and being a reasonably moral and decent human being mutually exclusive? I think I've been incredibly consistent in targeting only abandoned, burnt out, and disused properties from day 1 of my career. I have no desire to buy existing buildings with existing tenants and kick them out for cheap profits. It's not something I would enjoy doing because it's not me.

At this point I've realized the current state of African American areas like Lawndale is not only morally reprehensible, it's wholey irrational. Where there is irrational behavior you can typically turn a profit by merely coming in and acting rationally. I fully intend to make a profit on every project I do, there's no denying that, but I don't really care about money for personal use. I was granted financial independence solely by investing young in the worst recession in our lifetimes. At this point making money is about buying and renovating more and bigger buildings. I'm not looking to make another $200k so I can buy a Lambo...

If I can make money and work to desegregate and reinvest notorious poverty traps in the process, what's wrong with that? Why wouldn't I do that?

[emathias]

Originally Posted by moorhosj1

You are here, talking about it without persecution. One of our nation’s two political parties is entirely based on the concept. It’s hardly the taboo you claim.

You’re posts are focused on “personal responsibility” and LVDW is speaking of “societal responsibility”. They both have a place in the discussion, but as people who don’t live in these neighborhoods, it can come off as disingenuous or even victim-blaming.

A child who grows up in this area is not at fault for the decades of disinvestment (from public and private). They blatantly do not have the same opportunity as someone who grows up in Lincoln Park (from lead pipes to food desserts to bad schools). Trying to boil the difference down to “personal responsibility” misses the whole boat. If we actually wanted to discuss single parenthood, we’d need to get into the factors that lead to single parenthood instead of just highlighting the outcome as bias reinforcement.

Yeah, one of my favorite comedians is John Mulaney, who grew up in Lincoln Park, the son of two attorneys. He's talked openly about having a drug problem when he was younger and just got out of another stint in rehab, and went to Georgetown University mainly because his father is on the board there. Then he became a writer for Saturday Night Live, and had had several television specials. Had he grown up in North Lawndale with parents fitting the average demographics there, no amount of personal responsibility would have made up for the privilege he's enjoyed in life so far. I think he's aware of that, so doesn't try to take all the credit for his success, but that's just one famous local example.

[Randomguy34]

HAHAHAHAHAHAHA! Looks like another bites the dust

Chicago Ald. Jim Gardiner’s alleged conduct prompts FBI probe, sources say

Federal investigators have launched an inquiry into Ald. Jim Gardiner’s conduct in office, including whether he retaliated against constituents for political purposes, sources told the Tribune.

FBI agents recently spoke to a variety of individuals with knowledge of Gardiner’s conduct, and approached Gardiner himself last week, sources said.

The probe is just the latest controversy facing the first-term alderman, who has been under scrutiny in recent weeks after text messages he apparently sent were made public by an anonymous Northwest Side group, The People’s Fabric, showing he referred to one City Council colleague as “a b----” and the top aide of another council member as “his b----,” and also used the term to describe a political communications consultant.

https://www.chicagotribune.com/polit...lcy-story.html

[Randomguy34]

Another day, another abuser gets caught

Ex-Ald. Ricardo Muñoz pleads guilty in fraud case, admits he used caucus money for personal expenses

Former Ald. Ricardo Muñoz (22nd) pleaded guilty Monday to wire fraud and money laundering in a rare in-person hearing at the Dirksen Federal Courthouse.

The onetime veteran alderman entered his plea just five months after a federal indictment accused him of using the Progressive Reform Caucus as a personal piggy bank, stealing thousands to pay for a relative’s college tuition, skydiving excursions, women’s clothing, a hotel stay — and even at Lover’s Lane.

Notably, the 29-page indictment alleged that Muñoz’s behavior continued even after the feds’ aggressive pursuit of public corruption had blown into full view in late 2018 and early 2019.

Muñoz, 56, was forced into retirement in 2019 after his wife accused him of physically abusing her. A Cook County judge found him not guilty of misdemeanor domestic battery in June of that year. He was also in counseling that summer for alcoholism.

https://chicago.suntimes.com/crime/2...sonal-expenses

[the urban politician]

Asians looking for a ward remap to create a majority Asian ward:

https://www.chicagobusiness.com/greg...nst-daley-clan

[Chisouthside]

That proposed map leaves out the whitest areas of Bridgeport and the most Mexican area of Mckinley park. With that being said I support this if the ward becomes a bigger port of entry for Chinese/Asian immigrants and helps the southside grow/densify more.

[Kngkyle]

Originally Posted by the urban politician

Asians looking for a ward remap to create a majority Asian ward:

https://www.chicagobusiness.com/greg...nst-daley-clan

How is it even legal for political boundaries to be drawn up based on ethnicity and/or skin color? How is this progress? We are literally taking the racist/exclusionist policies of the past and bringing them back and claiming that it's progress. This is almost as bad as the new norm of universities offering segregated dormitories. I guess that old saying is true.. history does repeat itself.

[glowrock]

Originally Posted by Kngkyle

How is it even legal for political boundaries to be drawn up based on ethnicity and/or skin color? How is this progress? We are literally taking the racist/exclusionist policies of the past and bringing them back and claiming that it's progress. This is almost as bad as the new norm of universities offering segregated dormitories. I guess that old saying is true.. history does repeat itself.

I agree. This is absolute, 100% bullshit.

Aaron (Glowrock)

[ardecila]

Originally Posted by Kngkyle

How is it even legal for political boundaries to be drawn up based on ethnicity and/or skin color? How is this progress? We are literally taking the racist/exclusionist policies of the past and bringing them back and claiming that it's progress. This is almost as bad as the new norm of universities offering segregated dormitories. I guess that old saying is true.. history does repeat itself.

Redistricting is not a neutral act. No matter how you draw the map, you are giving and taking away power from different groups. That may seem distasteful to you but it’s unavoidable under our current system. Fairness is only achieved by having a City Council that reflects the overall demographics of the city.

The current 11th Ward is a gerrymandered mess stretching across the river into East Pilsen - 10 years ago this was the “white part” of Pilsen. The current map is designed specifically to keep the white Daley family in power.

Conversely the large and growing Chinese community is split across 4 different wards specifically so that it cannot get fair representation. The way to remedy this is to give them fair and equal representation. The proposed map is also pretty compact as well, it does not rely on excessive gerrymandering or lump together disconnected areas - this is a real and large community that deserves to be a single ward.

[jtown,man]

Originally Posted by ardecila

Redistricting is not a neutral act. No matter how you draw the map, you are giving and taking away power from different groups. That may seem distasteful to you but it’s unavoidable under our current system. Fairness is only achieved by having a City Council that reflects the overall demographics of the city.

The current 11th Ward is a gerrymandered mess stretching across the river into East Pilsen - 10 years ago this was the “white part” of Pilsen. The current map is designed specifically to keep the white Daley family in power.

Conversely the large and growing Chinese community is split across 4 different wards specifically so that it cannot get fair representation. The way to remedy this is to give them fair and equal representation. The proposed map is also pretty compact as well, it does not rely on excessive gerrymandering or lump together disconnected areas - this is a real and large community that deserves to be a single ward.

Why? Why does the City Council have to reflect the races of the city? And you don't even mean that. If there were zero white members no one would give a damn, because it doesn't matter. Black aldermen have done shit for their wards, so representation hasn't helped a bit.

The way to remedy all of this is to start from Rogers Park, and make as perfect squares as possible going south and then repeat throughout the city. If funny, in areas with primarily only one race, the districts look normal, then in the conversion zones, you get insane boundaries created by insane policitians.

The race game is a race to the bottom. You can already see this. First, no one gives a damn about white representation, that's an issue if we are playing the race game. Second, Asians want a ward, where will that come from? Third, Hispanics want "fair representation", where will that come from?

Whites and Hispanics will have to give up some areas to Asians. Blacks will have to give up a lot of power to Hispanics. That won't happen in this city. So you will just have race-based fighting that will never stop.

[Klippenstein]

Originally Posted by jtown,man

Why? Why does the City Council have to reflect the races of the city? And you don't even mean that. If there were zero white members no one would give a damn, because it doesn't matter. Black aldermen have done shit for their wards, so representation hasn't helped a bit.

The way to remedy all of this is to start from Rogers Park, and make as perfect squares as possible going south and then repeat throughout the city. If funny, in areas with primarily only one race, the districts look normal, then in the conversion zones, you get insane boundaries created by insane policitians.

The race game is a race to the bottom. You can already see this. First, no one gives a damn about white representation, that's an issue if we are playing the race game. Second, Asians want a ward, where will that come from? Third, Hispanics want "fair representation", where will that come from?

Whites and Hispanics will have to give up some areas to Asians. Blacks will have to give up a lot of power to Hispanics. That won't happen in this city. So you will just have race-based fighting that will never stop.

Race based fighting? Can you give an example?

You seem a little inflammatory when you just look at the downside, which only seems to be that there will be “race-based fighting”. What does that look like? Do you think that fighting will go away if wards are perfect squares? That will continue part of the downside of gerrymandering, which is that there are distinctly different neighborhoods and areas clumped together that don’t have a defined neighborhood identity. A neighborhood identity is actually good for political cohesion. It’s part of our history and neighborhood identity that Chicago is segregated. You can’t just get rid of that tension by drawing perfect squares on a map and calling it fair.

[Klippenstein]

^Not to mention that the wards need to be different sizes in order for each ward to represent an equal number of people since population density changes drastically from neighborhood to neighborhood.

[glowrock]

Originally Posted by jtown,man

Why? Why does the City Council have to reflect the races of the city? And you don't even mean that. If there were zero white members no one would give a damn, because it doesn't matter. Black aldermen have done shit for their wards, so representation hasn't helped a bit.

The way to remedy all of this is to start from Rogers Park, and make as perfect squares as possible going south and then repeat throughout the city. If funny, in areas with primarily only one race, the districts look normal, then in the conversion zones, you get insane boundaries created by insane policitians.

The race game is a race to the bottom. You can already see this. First, no one gives a damn about white representation, that's an issue if we are playing the race game. Second, Asians want a ward, where will that come from? Third, Hispanics want "fair representation", where will that come from?

Whites and Hispanics will have to give up some areas to Asians. Blacks will have to give up a lot of power to Hispanics. That won't happen in this city. So you will just have race-based fighting that will never stop.

I would agree with you in theory about having relatively square-shaped wards, but you of course have to take into account population density in order to have pretty much equal representation per ward. As long as the redistricting map isn't heavily gerrymandered, I'm honestly okay with it. I don't agree with forcing certain wards into particular racial percentages, but sometimes that will happen simply based on area.

Aaron (Glowrock)

[the urban politician]

Originally Posted by jtown,man

Why? Why does the City Council have to reflect the races of the city? And you don't even mean that. If there were zero white members no one would give a damn, because it doesn't matter. Black aldermen have done shit for their wards, so representation hasn't helped a bit.

The way to remedy all of this is to start from Rogers Park, and make as perfect squares as possible going south and then repeat throughout the city. If funny, in areas with primarily only one race, the districts look normal, then in the conversion zones, you get insane boundaries created by insane policitians.

The race game is a race to the bottom. You can already see this. First, no one gives a damn about white representation, that's an issue if we are playing the race game. Second, Asians want a ward, where will that come from? Third, Hispanics want "fair representation", where will that come from?

Whites and Hispanics will have to give up some areas to Asians. Blacks will have to give up a lot of power to Hispanics. That won't happen in this city. So you will just have race-based fighting that will never stop.

Exactly. I'm pretty sure that having an Indian representative would be meaningless to me, but then I'm not all that into the whole "I want my race represented!" poison that has corrupted American society over the past 30 years. I didn't think Ameya Pawar was particularly representative of me, and I'm not a fan at all of Representative Raja--he's just another of a long list of Illinois Democrat tools.

I'd rather see a Willie Wilson type person in power (who is black, obviously), or Jim Oberweis (white guy), because I agree with their ideas. Their ideas fall in line more with mine. To hell with the douchy Indian guy who shows up to Diwali parties or Indian temples just to garner votes. Or the douchy politician who declares it "Indian recognition week!" I hate all of that stuff. It is a disease of late 20th century American politics that has done nothing but simply lead to a slow unraveling of the fabric of America society.

[Steely Dan]

I'd rather see a Willie Wilson type person in power (who is black, obviously), or Jim Oberweis (white guy), because I agree with their ideas.

oh, the plight of the suburbanite:

"why isn't the city being run the way I want it to be run?"

[the urban politician]

Well, the only reason I care so much about Chicago politics is because I am so financially invested within the city. After all, I pay more property taxes in Chicago than the average city household income.

So I like to see how my tax dollars, and the stewards of it, are being wasted spent. Plus, crime is bad for business

[sentinel]

Originally Posted by the urban politician

Well, the only reason I care so much about Chicago politics is because I am so financially invested within the city. After all, I pay more property taxes in Chicago than the average city household income.

So I like to see how my tax dollars, and the stewards of it, are being wasted spent. Plus, crime is bad for business

The one individual most responsible right now is Kim Foxx; she demurs FAR too much when it comes to gang violence; she has blood on her hands, and doesn't give two shits. The ONLY way to curb violence in Chicago is to have an actual DA who will do their fucking job.