Phoenix | Astra Towers (2 towers) | 541 FT | 44 Floors & 425 FT | 30 Floors

[combusean]

I think people who seemingly have no purpose than to complain about the supposed lack of entertainment options or 600 foot buildings downtown should move to some place that has those so they can keep quiet about it here.

This is a warning to all involved, just in case I'm not clear. I have had it with the off-topic troll bait in this thread. Tread lightly--keep this about Astra.

[MMDelon]

I apologize. I wasn’t trying to make it anything big but just adding to the conversation. My bad for that.

[PhxPavilion]

Originally Posted by Obadno

I have had this conversation so many times.

Smaller cities generally the downtown IS their premier business district unlike Phoenix, which was literally a ghost town 15 years ago.

If instead of having the Camelback corridor, and Scottsdale, and north Scottsdale, and Tempe, and the Price corridor, in a smaller city (most metros) most of that would have been centralized downtown and things would have been different.

LA suffers from the same problem it just happens to be much larger than us.

And absolutely the vast majority of buildings are forgettable boxes.

This isn't the downtown Phoenix of 20 years ago. If it were I would agree with you but it has improved drastically in the last 12+ years.

[somethingfast]

DT Phoenix has inarguably made tremendous strides over the last 10-15 years in all aspects (except for maybe architectural value) however we can all agree that it has a ways to go yet. But it is progressing and it is reaching some critical mass as a place to be and a place people *want* to be across some demographics...and that bodes well. When Astra comes online and maybe a CPE then it will take a quantum leap forward building-wise.

[Obadno]

Originally Posted by PhxPavilion

This isn't the downtown Phoenix of 20 years ago. If it were I would agree with you but it has improved drastically in the last 12+ years.

Yes we can get some great restaurants and bars now, some cool and even high end apartments, Hell we even got a (low rise) new office building for th first time in 13 years.

But the types of striking tall architectural marvels people desire come from major cooperate offices and high end residential (Condos) or very expensive rentals which we dont have yet. That is still a ways off.

[Buckeye Native 001]

Originally Posted by somethingfast

DT Phoenix has inarguably made tremendous strides over the last 10-15 years in all aspects (except for maybe architectural value) however we can all agree that it has a ways to go yet. But it is progressing and it is reaching some critical mass as a place to be and a place people *want* to be across some demographics...and that bodes well. When Astra comes online and maybe a CPE then it will take a quantum leap forward building-wise.

I don't understand why this is so hard to appreciate? Its not The Loop/Magnificent Mile or even Downtown Cincinnati, but compared to where it was two to three decades ago, the strides are tremendous and commendable.

Is Downtown Phoenix being the best Downtown Phoenix it can be?

[PHX31]

I cannot wait until this breaks ground. It's basically been my entire life just waiting for a new tallest, and Astra will be an amazing addition to the skyline based on its position and remove a terrible empty lot. It's a triple win. I seriously remember going to Sky Harbor when I was a kid driving on I-17 south of downtown (before I-10 was completed through Central Phoenix, which I remember was being built at the time). I just stared at the skyline, which was fairly amazing and impressive to me (ha). Chase stood out as the tallest and it's crazy to think it still is. I can die happy knowing a new tallest will take its place, I never thought it would happen.

Q2 of '22 will be awesome if this and Phase 2 of Society Phx break ground right down the street.

[somethingfast]

Totally agree with both posts above. Yes, it's been a VERY LONG TIME (too long) to get to a new tallest...but we are. And it will look fantastic also. You add CPE and maybe possible a renovated Chase and we're talking not only a decent skyline but a nice looking one as well. We're never gonna be Chicago or Atlanta but we can have our own worthy identity. Imagine if Tempe weren't (God bless Tempe) pulling so much action away? DT Phoenix has some momentum and good things are coming and will come with it...that's the bottom.

[Diamonddave]

Ditto on the last two post for a new tallest I remember them building Chase in the early seventies and thought back that downtown was about to take off. I was wrong

[Buckeye Native 001]

I always liked Valley Center (is it fair to even call it Chase now that its vacant?) for what it represented rather than its aesthetics. Valley National could've went anywhere (Midtown, etc) to build a new headquarters at a time when Downtown Phoenix was being abandoned en masse, but its CEO opted to construct a landmark building to show that it was still a worthwhile endeavor to remain in Downtown Phoenix.

I know I'm simplifying the inner workings greatly (and cribbing from Talton), but credit where credit's due.

[biggus diggus]

I've heard Chicago mentioned a couple of times. Downtown Chicago (loop and river north) isn't really all that happening. I think downtown Phoenix is just as fun. Have to go to Wicker Park, Old Town or West Loop to find nightlife. Everything downtown is catered to convention and office workers. It's been a while since I was there, though. Some things might have changed.

[Diamonddave]

I hope that we're not forgetting along with the new tallest we're also getting the fourth tallest after the US bank building

[Obadno]

Originally Posted by biggus diggus

I've heard Chicago mentioned a couple of times. Downtown Chicago (loop and river north) isn't really all that happening. I think downtown Phoenix is just as fun. Have to go to Wicker Park, Old Town or West Loop to find nightlife. Everything downtown is catered to convention and office workers. It's been a while since I was there, though. Some things might have changed.

No the actual loop is dead as a doornail once you get to 7pm

the park areas are busy on weekends but the traditional CBD of Chicago is very 9-5. Not that its far to walk from there to some decently fun areas north of the river but still.

And that isnt even unusual even large parts of midtown Manhattan are dead once you pass business hours

[somethingfast]

^ the urban violence epidemic in Chicago puts a damper on nightlife. i personally won't go back there to visit until they deal realistically with the issue. i will agree that DT Nashville, Boston and Toronto are all more enjoyable experiences.

[Edifice]

Just a quick anecdote about downtown development. My dad took me to the grand opening day of the Valley Center in 1972. I was in 8th grade and 13 years old. It was the coolest thing I had ever seen and it started my lifetime infatuation with high rise architecture. Shortly afterward construction began on the new Adams Hotel and the new Hyatt Regency. I was so obsessed with downtown development that I would head downtown as often as possible to watch both buildings being built. I even sneaked into the Hyatt Regency before it opened to the public and made my way to the Compass Room restaurant at the top. Fortunately nobody saw me! Then I went to the Adams Hotel and sneaked in there too, but this time I was caught by security while I was running around outside on top of the mechanical level. I was almost in tears while they “interrogated” me down in the General Contractor’s office. I was 16 at the time and had just gotten my drivers license. They intimidated the heck out of me with their questions but were actually pretty nice about it. They dismissed me with a “Don’t do this again”. I’m sure there are many others on this board with similar stories!

[biggus diggus]

Originally Posted by Obadno

No the actual loop is dead as a doornail once you get to 7pm

the park areas are busy on weekends but the traditional CBD of Chicago is very 9-5. Not that its far to walk from there to some decently fun areas north of the river but still.

And that isnt even unusual even large parts of midtown Manhattan are dead once you pass business hours

My apartment was at Delaware and Wabash - I didn't expect to find closed restaurants at 8pm on a Thursday or empty bars at 9pm on a Saturday but that reality hit me after a few weeks there.

I still enjoyed the city but my point is that going into downtown Phoenix isn't all that different from downtown Chicago. Chicago is just bigger. I haven't spent much time in NYC but I'd imagine much of it isn't very "fun".

[YourBuddy]

Originally Posted by somethingfast

^ the urban violence epidemic in Chicago puts a damper on nightlife. i personally won't go back there to visit until they deal realistically with the issue. i will agree that DT Nashville, Boston and Toronto are all more enjoyable experiences.

They say the same thing about Minneapolis. It feels pretty overblown. I was a regular in what is apparently one of the highest crime neighborhoods on the opposite side of the highway from downtown Minneapolis. Spent over 5 years there and never been a victim of any crime. Never felt scared, threatened or in danger. Had two close friends live there as well, never heard them say they were victims of any type of crime. Walking their dog at any time of night. I even forgot to lock the doors of my “nicer” car a couple times. Cross the highway and a bunch of popular high end bars and nightclubs. I knew stupid suburban kids growing up who made me feel a lot less safe than I ever felt in Minneapolis.

[Obadno]

Originally Posted by biggus diggus

My apartment was at Delaware and Wabash - I didn't expect to find closed restaurants at 8pm on a Thursday or empty bars at 9pm on a Saturday but that reality hit me after a few weeks there.

I still enjoyed the city but my point is that going into downtown Phoenix isn't all that different from downtown Chicago. Chicago is just bigger. I haven't spent much time in NYC but I'd imagine much of it isn't very "fun".

I don't want to talk to generally, the loop relative to the entire urban area of Chicago is tiny and anywhere in the loop isn't more than a 15 minute walk or two stop train ride to more lively neighborhoods for nightlife.

[Obadno]

Originally Posted by somethingfast

^ the urban violence epidemic in Chicago puts a damper on nightlife. i personally won't go back there to visit until they deal realistically with the issue. i will agree that DT Nashville, Boston and Toronto are all more enjoyable experiences.

I wouldn't worry, I am not a crime apologist and I think its absurd that cities have voluntarily given up the gains of the past 30 years and relapsed to 90's level violence for... idk political points? Idiotic.

that being said the crime issue in Chicago is relegated to southern and western neighborhoods as well as to people involved in certain types of extra-legal activities.

Assuming you aren't in these neighborhoods or hanging with those types of circles you are fine.

[somethingfast]

Originally Posted by Obadno

I wouldn't worry, I am not a crime apologist and I think its absurd that cities have voluntarily given up the gains of the past 30 years and relapsed to 90's level violence for... idk political points? Idiotic.

that being said the crime issue in Chicago is relegated to southern and western neighborhoods as well as to people involved in certain types of extra-legal activities.

Assuming you aren't in these neighborhoods or hanging with those types of circles you are fine.

generally agree but there's more than a few instances in Chicago of people in "normal" areas getting hit by a bullet. people remember those few and far betweens. gang violence has a tendency to spill over to normie areas if it allowed to run rampant. past is not prelude and all. point is, Chicago and now Minneapolis and New York now have a reputation as being increasingly lax on violent crime or at least an inability to curtail it. I used to live in Minneapolis in the early 90's and you didn't walk around normie parts of downtown at night on a Friday unless you were in a group bc thugs would absolutely hassle you. thank God Phoenix doesn't have this issue on any scale and that's why DT is thriving now...