The Curv | 178.5m | 60Fl | Proposed

[whatnext]

Originally Posted by Changing City

That should more accurately read "there was no foreign buyers tax in Quebec", (although there has been in BC since 2016), which presumably contributed to the interest in buying investment condos in Brivia's Montreal tower, (as well as the much lower cost to buy), when it came to market a few years ago.

It's irrelevent these days as there's a federal ban on foreign purchase of residential real estate. But there's nothing stopping a Vancouver resident buying a condo that they intend to rent out in Montreal.

Even in Vancouver under 10% of condo owners in 2020 were to out-of-province or non-resident investors.

Except, as you well know, it was foreign money not just foreign buyers that skewed Vancouvers housing market. One less building like this is one less place to stash that money.

[whatnext]

This building site seems a perfect example of speculation run rampant.

Opinion: Flipped to death — failed Curv tower project exposes speculative rezoning game
Guest Author
Jul 17 2025, 7:10 pm

Revised concept of The Curv at 1059-1075 Nelson St., Vancouver, with the completed The Butterfly tower also depicted. (WKK Architects/Bravia Group)
Written for Daily Hive Urbanized by Robert Renger, who was the senior development planner for the City of Burnaby and the municipal government’s lead for the planning and development of the UniverCity community at Simon Fraser University.

The planned “The Curv” tower development in downtown Vancouver’s West End is an interesting example of the flipping-rezoning process that real estate firm Goodman Commercial portrayed through rose-coloured glasses in an op-ed published in Daily Hive Urbanized earlier this week.

In 2013, Vancouver City Council’s adoption of the West End Community Plan set off a speculative land rush to purchase older, affordable rental buildings in order to evict tenants, demolish the buildings, and build condominium towers.

The Curv site — then two older low-rise apartment buildings at 1059-1075 Nelson St. — was purchased by developer Wall Financial Corporation in 2013 for $16.8 million.

Wall sold the site in 2016 for $60 million to a buyer who flipped it one month later for $68 million. These were share sales that avoided the Property Transfer Tax (PTT). BC Assessment was only $15.6 million in 2016.

In 2020, Henson Development secured rezoning approval for a 60-storey tower at the extraordinarily high density of 24.7 FSR/FAR, by promising to include 102 social housing units to be turned over to the City of Vancouver. Then in 2021, Henson sold the site to Brivia Group for an undisclosed amount, possibly over $100 million.....

https://dailyhive.com/vancouver/curv...ip-speculation

[GenWhy?]

Sounds like the original owner that sold it for $16m was the real fool.

[whatnext]

Originally Posted by GenWhy?

Sounds like the original owner that sold it for $16m was the real fool.

That or an experienced local developer not realizing how strong the speculative buying mania was.

The real surprise is that RBC and a coalition of Canadian lenders thought loaning Brivia over $90 million for such a project in 2023 made sense. I'm sure any SSPers could have told them it wasn't a good idea by then.

[whatnext]

Uh oh, is that some forumers' heads I hear exploding?

Troubled Vancouver luxury tower project shows flaws in housing policy
Kerry Gold
Vancouver
Special to The Globe and Mail
Published July 25, 2025

Last week, news broke that the 60-storey luxury tower planned near Burrard and Nelson streets in downtown Vancouver was headed into receivership, one of many debacles in the presale condo market in the last couple of years.

For housing experts, the failure of a significant residential project illustrates everything wrong with government housing policies.

In the case of the Curv tower, units in the two apartment buildings at 1059 and 1075 Nelson St. were vacated to make way for the project, but the empty buildings remain. The occupants of the 51 units are the casualties of a housing system that favoured profits over housing needs, said Andy Yan, associate professor of professional practice in urban studies at Simon Fraser University....

....All three levels of government are increasingly catering to the development industry and as a result are failing to answer to the public, said Erick Villagomez, instructor at the University of B.C.’s School of Community and Regional Planning. For example, the city of Vancouver is devoted to zoning that favours the high-rise tower as a panacea to the housing crisis, even though it’s the slowest and riskiest building form, as the Curv demonstrates..

... Tax policies are often tantamount to a subsidy, such as Vancouver’s $3.8-million in Empty Homes Tax refunds in 2022, given to developers who’d failed to sell built condos, said Mr. Villagomez. An apartment building is exempt from the Empty Homes Tax as long as one unit remains occupied.

Developers can reduce taxes on empty lots by converting them to community gardens, he pointed out....

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/real...tower-project/

[Feathered Friend]

Originally Posted by whatnext

Uh oh, is that some forumers' heads I hear exploding?

Troubled Vancouver luxury tower project shows flaws in housing policy
Kerry Gold
Vancouver
Special to The Globe and Mail
Published July 25, 2025

Last week, news broke that the 60-storey luxury tower planned near Burrard and Nelson streets in downtown Vancouver was headed into receivership, one of many debacles in the presale condo market in the last couple of years.

For housing experts, the failure of a significant residential project illustrates everything wrong with government housing policies.

In the case of the Curv tower, units in the two apartment buildings at 1059 and 1075 Nelson St. were vacated to make way for the project, but the empty buildings remain. The occupants of the 51 units are the casualties of a housing system that favoured profits over housing needs, said Andy Yan, associate professor of professional practice in urban studies at Simon Fraser University....

....All three levels of government are increasingly catering to the development industry and as a result are failing to answer to the public, said Erick Villagomez, instructor at the University of B.C.’s School of Community and Regional Planning. For example, the city of Vancouver is devoted to zoning that favours the high-rise tower as a panacea to the housing crisis, even though it’s the slowest and riskiest building form, as the Curv demonstrates..

... Tax policies are often tantamount to a subsidy, such as Vancouver’s $3.8-million in Empty Homes Tax refunds in 2022, given to developers who’d failed to sell built condos, said Mr. Villagomez. An apartment building is exempt from the Empty Homes Tax as long as one unit remains occupied.

Developers can reduce taxes on empty lots by converting them to community gardens, he pointed out....

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/real...tower-project/

Wow! Boom! Who would have ever expected a Kerry Gold article to be critical of building more housing.

And, oh my! Citing Villagomez, I mean it's not like he's taken to literally attending every public hearing, and playing the same presentation based on Calhoun's rat overpopulation study. Calling for the halt of building new homes in Vancouver proper, and instead constructing several at-grade LRT lines to the far flung exurbs is so mind blowing.

Clearly, everyone in here will need to report to the neurology department to repair their exploded skulls.

Apologies for the heavy sarcasm, but c'mon, we're all more informed than to be swayed by glorified opinion pieces, regardless of what view they advocate for.

[jollyburger]

Curv is a canary in the coal mine for housing in Vancouver.

Start into the typical blabber about nothing for a few paragraphs.

Literally wrote the exact same article in March with the same people. But but but we got to learn the lessons from Curv.

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/real...ity-crisis-in/

[GenWhy?]

The Curv gambled and lost. Shame.

The other two Thurlow sites decided to build rental and are making that work as they're well into construction (good for them).

[whatnext]

Originally Posted by Feathered Friend

Wow! Boom! Who would have ever expected a Kerry Gold article to be critical of building more housing.

And, oh my! Citing Villagomez, I mean it's not like he's taken to literally attending every public hearing, and playing the same presentation based on Calhoun's rat overpopulation study. Calling for the halt of building new homes in Vancouver proper, and instead constructing several at-grade LRT lines to the far flung exurbs is so mind blowing.

Clearly, everyone in here will need to report to the neurology department to repair their exploded skulls.

Apologies for the heavy sarcasm, but c'mon, we're all more informed than to be swayed by glorified opinion pieces, regardless of what view they advocate for.

So, it is "I disagree with their take and therefore mine is right"? That the professionals quoted in the article (and like it or not they have plenty of experience in their fields) are all mistaken?

It is interesting how many forumers think the property insanity of the last 20 years and its attendant catastrophic effect on affordability is "normal".

[WarrenC12]

Originally Posted by whatnext

It is interesting how many forumers think the property insanity of the last 20 years and its attendant catastrophic effect on affordability is "normal".

It's "interesting" how you keep putting this strawman up and beating him like you're a hero.

[whatnext]

Originally Posted by WarrenC12

It's "interesting" how you keep putting this strawman up and beating him like you're a hero.

It's not a strawman. Are you trying to say with a straight face a $60 million penthouse was planned with some hardworking housewife? But whatever, you obviously have your own reasons for trying to promote it as such.

[jollyburger]

Originally Posted by WarrenC12

It's "interesting" how you keep putting this strawman up and beating him like you're a hero.

"Property insanity" is just dog whistling for you know what.

[WarrenC12]

Originally Posted by whatnext

It's not a strawman. Are you trying to say with a straight face a $60 million penthouse was planned with some hardworking housewife? But whatever, you obviously have your own reasons for trying to promote it as such.

Show me all the "forumers" that have been saying our RE is normal over the last 20 years. That was the point you made. It's a strawman.


noun: straw man; plural noun: straw men; noun: strawman; plural noun: strawmen
1. an intentionally misrepresented proposition that is set up because it is easier to defeat than an opponent's real argument.

[whatnext]

Originally Posted by jollyburger

"Property insanity" is just dog whistling for you know what.

Dog whistling, where? I've been pretty clear and open that offshore money from China flooding Vancouver real estate helped get us to the place of deep unaffordability we are in today. Or do you share Warren's opinion that a $60 million penthouse was destined for some local buyer? It's just another beautiful unlived-in penthouse in Vancouver.

Psst, for those local buyers looking for such digs you can get the one at Kengo Kuma for a steal at $16.9 million. Westbank (hopefully not some poor pre-sale fool) is still trying to flog that along with other units in that building.

[WarrenC12]

Originally Posted by whatnext

Dog whistling, where? I've been pretty clear and open that offshore money from China flooding Vancouver real estate helped get us to the place of deep unaffordability we are in today. Or do you share Warren's opinion that a $60 million penthouse was destined for some local buyer? It's just another beautiful unlived-in penthouse in Vancouver.

Since when is that my opinion? Grow the hell up.

[Changing City]

Originally Posted by whatnext

Dog whistling, where? I've been pretty clear and open that offshore money from China flooding Vancouver real estate helped get us to the place of deep unaffordability we are in today. Or do you share Warren's opinion that a $60 million penthouse was destined for some local buyer? It's just another beautiful unlived-in penthouse in Vancouver.

You usually claim that it's only offshore money from China (and Chinese money launderers) flooding Vancouver real estate that caused the "deep unaffordability". You don't acknowledge any other reasons for Vancouver's real estate market being expensive.

The price of luxury penthouses in Vancouver is featured in the press from time to time, and generally the owners prefer anonymity, so it would be good to see your source of information that they're all Chinese billionaires. In the past you could read about Oprah having a penthouse here, and Jean-Claude Van Damme sold his in 2022.

Jim Pattison has the penthouse in the Rogers tower, upstairs from his company office. If you watched 'Dragon's Den', you'd see Jim Treliving looking out from his Coal Harbour penthouse. Successful property developers in the city often own a penthouse in their building - Ian Gillespie has (and was supposedly planning on to occupy one in The Butterfly), and Terry Hui of Concord Pacific has one (and his children have others).

More recently Daryl Katz, the Edmonton Oilers owner, and the Crown Prince of Dubai put their penthouses up for sale.

Only Terry Hui was born in Hong Kong, (although that wasn't part of China at the time, and he went to university in California). Jim Pattison was born in Vancouver, and Ian Gillespie in Port Coquitlam, so even locals can own penthouses!

[bb1510]

Originally Posted by Changing City

You usually claim that it's only offshore money from China (and Chinese money launderers) flooding Vancouver real estate that caused the "deep unaffordability". You don't acknowledge any other reasons for Vancouver's real estate market being expensive.

The price of luxury penthouses in Vancouver is featured in the press from time to time, and generally the owners prefer anonymity, so it would be good to see your source of information that they're all Chinese billionaires. In the past you could read about Oprah having a penthouse here, and Jean-Claude Van Damme sold his in 2022.

Jim Pattison has the penthouse in the Rogers tower, upstairs from his company office. If you watched 'Dragon's Den', you'd see Jim Treliving looking out from his Coal Harbour penthouse. Successful property developers in the city often own a penthouse in their building - Ian Gillespie has (and was supposedly planning on to occupy one in The Butterfly), and Terry Hui of Concord Pacific has one (and his children have others).

More recently Daryl Katz, the Edmonton Oilers owner, and the Crown Prince of Dubai put their penthouses up for sale.

Only Terry Hui was born in Hong Kong, (although that wasn't part of China at the time, and he went to university in California). Jim Pattison was born in Vancouver, and Ian Gillespie in Port Coquitlam, so even locals can own penthouses!

Actually, the penthouse of the Rogers Tower (the one that is currently for sale) is owned by William Lede, the owner of Ledcor Construction. Interestingly, Ledcor didn't renew their lease in the Rogers Tower and moved into the Guinness Tower.

Jim Pattison owns a lower floor combination unit at the Fairmont Pacific Rim (I believe it's an 08 and 09 combination which is close to 5000 SF total - it's the NW corner). A lower elevation at a waterfront location = eye level water views rather than looking at the sky and water and needing to look down towards the water.

Ian Gilliespie also used to own PH2 at the Shangri La.

[Changing City]

Originally Posted by bb1510

Actually, the penthouse of the Rogers Tower (the one that is currently for sale) is owned by William Lede, the owner of Ledcor Construction. Interestingly, Ledcor didn't renew their lease in the Rogers Tower and moved into the Guinness Tower.

Jim Pattison owns a lower floor combination unit at the Fairmont Pacific Rim (I believe it's an 08 and 09 combination which is close to 5000 SF total - it's the NW corner). A lower elevation at a waterfront location = eye level water views rather than looking at the sky and water and needing to look down towards the water.

Ian Gilliespie also used to own PH2 at the Shangri La.

Thanks. I think Jim was in the Shaw Tower (as it was then) when it was first completed in 2004. I remember reading that his commute was entirely by elevator, but I guess he moved after Pacific Rim was completed in 2010.

[LeftCoaster]

Originally Posted by bb1510

Actually, the penthouse of the Rogers Tower (the one that is currently for sale) is owned by William Lede, the owner of Ledcor Construction.

That'd be surprising since Bill Lede died in the 80s.

[bb1510]

Originally Posted by LeftCoaster

That'd be surprising since Bill Lede died in the 80s.

My bad, Clifford Lede. William is Cliff's middle name, but in any case, it's owned by a Lede