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  #1  
Old Posted May 15, 2018, 11:10 PM
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Originally Posted by left of center View Post
At this point I wonder if its wise to introduce some of the Zebra mussel's natural predators into the lake ecosystem? We haven't really had much luck in the past with introducing foreign species into the Great Lakes system, but short of the complete ecological collapse that we are essentially seeing and facing, what other options are there?
Well the lake really is not "dead" but lacking microscopic natural photosynthesis diatoms and other larger copepod like species.


But there are many examples of introducing exotic predators to deal with another invasive species.

We introduced the Asian Lady bug that can bite a person and is not as effective as a natural Lady Bug that is harmless to humans.


I would easily say there are more examples of introducing invasive predators to eliminate invasive species than there are successes.
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  #2  
Old Posted May 16, 2018, 12:08 AM
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Speaking of introduced exotics, the dreaded Asian silver carp that's threatening the Great Lakes was introduced to control algae in aquaculture and wastewater treatment and is feared to compound the invasive effect of zebra and quagga mussels due to the excessive algae the mussels grow from their excreta.

But apparently the meat of silver carp is tasty. If and when, and it's really a matter of when it reaches the lake, we better learn to eat it.
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  #3  
Old Posted May 16, 2018, 5:40 AM
LouisVanDerWright LouisVanDerWright is offline
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Originally Posted by vandelay View Post
Speaking of introduced exotics, the dreaded Asian silver carp that's threatening the Great Lakes was introduced to control algae in aquaculture and wastewater treatment and is feared to compound the invasive effect of zebra and quagga mussels due to the excessive algae the mussels grow from their excreta.

But apparently the meat of silver carp is tasty. If and when, and it's really a matter of when it reaches the lake, we better learn to eat it.
It's so much more complex than just one invasive species though. The Zebra Mussels have actually wiped out two other exotic species by cleaning the water so thoroughly. Also, several native species actually feast on Zebra Mussels, but they are so prolific and fast going in cold freshwater like the Great Lakes that no matter how fast native predators eat them, they still clog the waters.

The Zebra Mussel, by eating plankton actually wiped out the nasty Alewife problem by depriving them of their food source which was actually the same plankton the Mussels eat. The Alewives used to boom in population so erratically due seasonal algae blooms that they would suffer starvation collapse and die en masse and make beaches uninhabitable. The Lake Trout population, which would be the typical apex predator in the lakes, was also suffering population collapse at the time due to lampreys, so there was nothing to control them. So we stocked the lakes with Salmon which would predate the Alewives and control them. Then Zebra mussels came along and ate all the plankton collapsing the Alewife population and therefore the Salmon population. They also happen to be excellent food for Lake Trout which is the original species that is supposed to dominate the Great Lakes apex niche. This shifting of prey species in combination with clever conservation techniques to kill lamprey eels has helped to bring the Lake Trout population back to multidecade highs.

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Lampricides, river barriers, traps and new experimental control techniques like disrupting spawning with sex pheromones have dropped the fish kill total from 103 million pounds a year to less than 10 million, the commission says.
http://www.mlive.com/news/index.ssf/...ey_declin.html

The collapse of the Lake Trout population in the 1940's and 50's devastated what was one of the largest fisheries in the US. At one point in time they were catching millions of pounds of Lake Trout a year which is excellent tasting and normally thrives in the lakes. Now that lampreys are eating 90 million less pounds of fish, the commercial industry is thriving again.

A lot of native species feast on the Zebra mussel including Smallmouth Bass, Lake Trout, and Crayfish, which apparently eat 105 Zebra Mussels a day per adult Crayfish. Crayfish also basically inhabit the same prey status as Zebra Mussels for Lake Trout which further boosts the Trout's numbers.

So ironically Lake Michigan is healthier now with Zebra Mussels than it was before their invasion. They are a pain for power plants and boaters, but they caused huge issues for other more noxious invaders while feeding some of the rebounding native species.

But we are way off topic so N E ways back to buildings.
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  #4  
Old Posted May 16, 2018, 1:44 PM
west-town-brad west-town-brad is offline
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Originally Posted by LouisVanDerWright View Post
It's so much more complex than just one invasive species though.
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  #5  
Old Posted May 16, 2018, 4:07 PM
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Originally Posted by LouisVanDerWright View Post
It's so much more complex than just one invasive species though. The Zebra Mussels have actually wiped out two other exotic species by cleaning the water so thoroughly. Also, several native species actually feast on Zebra Mussels, but they are so prolific and fast going in cold freshwater like the Great Lakes that no matter how fast native predators eat them, they still clog the waters.

The Zebra Mussel, by eating plankton actually wiped out the nasty Alewife problem by depriving them of their food source which was actually the same plankton the Mussels eat. The Alewives used to boom in population so erratically due seasonal algae blooms that they would suffer starvation collapse and die en masse and make beaches uninhabitable. The Lake Trout population, which would be the typical apex predator in the lakes, was also suffering population collapse at the time due to lampreys, so there was nothing to control them. So we stocked the lakes with Salmon which would predate the Alewives and control them. Then Zebra mussels came along and ate all the plankton collapsing the Alewife population and therefore the Salmon population. They also happen to be excellent food for Lake Trout which is the original species that is supposed to dominate the Great Lakes apex niche. This shifting of prey species in combination with clever conservation techniques to kill lamprey eels has helped to bring the Lake Trout population back to multidecade highs.



http://www.mlive.com/news/index.ssf/...ey_declin.html

The collapse of the Lake Trout population in the 1940's and 50's devastated what was one of the largest fisheries in the US. At one point in time they were catching millions of pounds of Lake Trout a year which is excellent tasting and normally thrives in the lakes. Now that lampreys are eating 90 million less pounds of fish, the commercial industry is thriving again.

A lot of native species feast on the Zebra mussel including Smallmouth Bass, Lake Trout, and Crayfish, which apparently eat 105 Zebra Mussels a day per adult Crayfish. Crayfish also basically inhabit the same prey status as Zebra Mussels for Lake Trout which further boosts the Trout's numbers.

So ironically Lake Michigan is healthier now with Zebra Mussels than it was before their invasion. They are a pain for power plants and boaters, but they caused huge issues for other more noxious invaders while feeding some of the rebounding native species.

But we are way off topic so N E ways back to buildings.
Wow, that's really interesting! Lake trout is actually delicious. Glad to hear this.

I have memories of the alewives rotting on the beaches, that was not pleasant at all.
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  #6  
Old Posted May 16, 2018, 11:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LouisVanDerWright View Post
It's so much more complex than just one invasive species though. The Zebra Mussels have actually wiped out two other exotic species by cleaning the water so thoroughly. Also, several native species actually feast on Zebra Mussels, but they are so prolific and fast going in cold freshwater like the Great Lakes that no matter how fast native predators eat them, they still clog the waters.

The Zebra Mussel, by eating plankton actually wiped out the nasty Alewife problem by depriving them of their food source which was actually the same plankton the Mussels eat. The Alewives used to boom in population so erratically due seasonal algae blooms that they would suffer starvation collapse and die en masse and make beaches uninhabitable. The Lake Trout population, which would be the typical apex predator in the lakes, was also suffering population collapse at the time due to lampreys, so there was nothing to control them. So we stocked the lakes with Salmon which would predate the Alewives and control them. Then Zebra mussels came along and ate all the plankton collapsing the Alewife population and therefore the Salmon population. They also happen to be excellent food for Lake Trout which is the original species that is supposed to dominate the Great Lakes apex niche. This shifting of prey species in combination with clever conservation techniques to kill lamprey eels has helped to bring the Lake Trout population back to multidecade highs.



http://www.mlive.com/news/index.ssf/...ey_declin.html

The collapse of the Lake Trout population in the 1940's and 50's devastated what was one of the largest fisheries in the US. At one point in time they were catching millions of pounds of Lake Trout a year which is excellent tasting and normally thrives in the lakes. Now that lampreys are eating 90 million less pounds of fish, the commercial industry is thriving again.

A lot of native species feast on the Zebra mussel including Smallmouth Bass, Lake Trout, and Crayfish, which apparently eat 105 Zebra Mussels a day per adult Crayfish. Crayfish also basically inhabit the same prey status as Zebra Mussels for Lake Trout which further boosts the Trout's numbers.

So ironically Lake Michigan is healthier now with Zebra Mussels than it was before their invasion. They are a pain for power plants and boaters, but they caused huge issues for other more noxious invaders while feeding some of the rebounding native species.

But we are way off topic so N E ways back to buildings.
Thank you for some of the most interesting pure ecological science comments I've seen on ANY message board, yet alone SSP, in a good long time! I actually learned something quite important from your post.

Bravo, sir!

Aaron (Glowrock)
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  #7  
Old Posted May 20, 2018, 8:38 PM
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Looking at the riverwalk on solar's 5th picture just makes me realize how terrible that section was designed. What a waste of space. They could have at least put a fountain in or something. Hopefully they have future plans.
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  #8  
Old Posted May 20, 2018, 8:45 PM
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Looking at the riverwalk on solar's 5th picture just makes me realize how terrible that section was designed. What a waste of space. They could have at least put a fountain in or something. Hopefully they have future plans.
I actually like sitting out at that section - it's pretty awesome looking out upon the fork of the river at near water level and just relaxing. It's pretty bare bones, but at least sitting out there is not bad at all. The first time I went out there I thought it would suck but surprisingly it was nice.
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  #9  
Old Posted May 21, 2018, 1:28 PM
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Originally Posted by KWillChicago View Post
Looking at the riverwalk on solar's 5th picture just makes me realize how terrible that section was designed. What a waste of space. They could have at least put a fountain in or something. Hopefully they have future plans.
Maybe that's where the aerial gondola station will go?
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  #10  
Old Posted May 22, 2018, 2:08 PM
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World Tall+Urban conference in Chicago

Skyscraper design,build,finance leaders here May 30-31 for conference and awards. 2018 Tall+Urban Innovation Conference
Attendees are truly global visitors. Good time to show off the developments.
BVic - better be on your A game!
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  #11  
Old Posted May 22, 2018, 5:07 PM
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Does anybody remember, several years ago when the government made an investment in the city during the Obama area. It was related to 3D printing and presumed new area of manufacturing; something like a new age manufacturing incubator. I think it was at Goose Island or something?

What ever happened to all of that?
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  #12  
Old Posted May 22, 2018, 5:55 PM
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Does anybody remember, several years ago when the government made an investment in the city during the Obama area. It was related to 3D printing and presumed new area of manufacturing; something like a new age manufacturing incubator. I think it was at Goose Island or something?

What ever happened to all of that?
Isn't this it?

https://www.uilabs.org/what-is-ui-labs/history/
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  #13  
Old Posted May 20, 2018, 8:53 PM
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Maybe the Lake St section isn't that bad in person but it does look unfinished for sure and looks slightly embarrassing. It makes this city look 2nd rate having such unfinished high-profile areas go unfinished. And hopefully, it will be before 5 or 20 years from now and more like programmed in the next year or two.
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  #14  
Old Posted May 20, 2018, 9:41 PM
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Originally Posted by nomarandlee View Post
Maybe the Lake St section isn't that bad in person but it does look unfinished for sure and looks slightly embarrassing. It makes this city look 2nd rate having such unfinished high-profile areas go unfinished. And hopefully, it will be before 5 or 20 years from now and more like programmed in the next year or two.
I prefer it this way - enjoyment by people in person should trump the image it presents to those who aren't present.
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  #15  
Old Posted May 20, 2018, 10:08 PM
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I prefer it this way - enjoyment by people in person should trump the image it presents to those who aren't present.
I heard Blair Kamin was advocating to have it replaced with this feature to ensure our place as a first-rate global architectural city.

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  #16  
Old Posted May 20, 2018, 10:12 PM
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I prefer it this way - enjoyment by people in person should trump the image it presents to those who aren't present.
Be it in person or photos I think it lacks a serious amount of imagination to suggest that is anywhere near serving its full potential. Right not it's a stark cement ramp with chain link fencing with a decent suburban grass lawn. Why romanticize it as much more than that.
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  #17  
Old Posted May 20, 2018, 10:36 PM
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Be it in person or photos I think it lacks a serious amount of imagination to suggest that is anywhere near serving its full potential. Right not it's a stark cement ramp with chain link fencing with a decent suburban grass lawn. Why romanticize it as much more than that.
They ran out of federal funding that was being used for it and with Trump being Trump we can't expect to get any additional influx of cash. It's better than what it was and hardly even close to the top of the list of things that need to be done. We'll live... It'll be improved eventually, everything in downtown does at some point. Just be happy it got built at all lol
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  #18  
Old Posted May 21, 2018, 5:37 PM
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Arguably never a more exciting time to be a Chicago skyscraper fan
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  #19  
Old Posted May 21, 2018, 5:53 PM
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Arguably never a more exciting time to be a Chicago skyscraper fan
potentially, yes.

1969 saw the completion of two 800+ footers.

'73-'76 saw the completion of three 800+ footers.

'89-'90 saw the completion of four 800+ footers.

2000 saw the completion of one 800+ footer.

'09-'10 saw the completion of three 800+ footers.

currently, there are three 800 footers U/C with a further seven solid proposals on the drawing boards.



will all 7 of those proposals get built? history teaches us that is pretty unlikely, but even if just half of them can squeak through in the next handful of years, it's gonna be epic!
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  #20  
Old Posted Jun 2, 2018, 1:50 PM
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potentially, yes.

1969 saw the completion of two 800+ footers.

'73-'76 saw the completion of three 800+ footers.

'89-'90 saw the completion of four 800+ footers.

2000 saw the completion of one 800+ footer.

'09-'10 saw the completion of three 800+ footers.

currently, there are three 800 footers U/C with a further seven solid proposals on the drawing boards.



will all 7 of those proposals get built? history teaches us that is pretty unlikely, but even if just half of them can squeak through in the next handful of years, it's gonna be epic!
Problem being, we need to view this in relative terms. In the 1960s and 70s, how many 800 ft towers were being built in the world compared to today?

Unfortunately, today Chicago has to do way the hell more to match the greatness it was achieving in 1969 or 1970. I’m not saying it has to be all about height, though.

I think we are there already but for a different reason. We are building a truly 24 hour, walkable, live-work-play environment in the core of town, and reinvigorating & expanding the core’s role as the center of commerce and importance for generations to come—and I think that will end up being far more transformational than a couple of wow-inducing skyline enhancers.
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