Metro Vancouver Bike/Pedestrian Discussion

[racc]

Originally Posted by deasine

While not safe, it's not illegal.



Please, many cyclists don't do this either.



Again, while not safe, it's not illegal.



This is a complete different story as I do this myself. However, I don't support people talking on the phones without bluetooth or headsets.



This is funny. As a cyclist, I don't do this.

It's really a matter of when to do stuff when it's safely. Do I really follow the 50 km/hr speed limit. Generally, I drive with the flow of the traffic. Do I make a complete stop at stop signs? No, but I slow down enough to make sure I check twice to not run into anyone.

I'm sick and tired of this cyclist vs. cars debate here at SSP. In reality, both groups have many problems and it will always be that way.

Exactly, I was just pointing out that to the people that keep on harping about cyclist's breaking the law while motorists are just as bad or worse. The only difference is that cyclists typically only endanger themselves while motorists kill and injure many innocent people. This is why the focus of enforcement should be on driving. Once we solve this huge problem, then focus on cyclists if it actually really is a problem.

[WarrenC12]

Originally Posted by racc

Exactly, I was just pointing out that to the people that keep on harping about cyclist's breaking the law while motorists are just as bad or worse. The only difference is that cyclists typically only endanger themselves while motorists kill and injure many innocent people. This is why the focus of enforcement should be on driving. Once we solve this huge problem, then focus on cyclists if it actually really is a problem.

Stop trying a straw man argument, this isn't about daily cyclist/driver issues. I'm a cyclist, and I see horrible driver and other cyclist behaviour on a daily basis.

This is about the idiots that make up the Critical Mess every month. Even Gregor came out yesterday and said he doesn't like what they are doing. All the city and VPD are asking for now is a planned route they can advise people of. The city and police try to contact the leaders of CM, but clearly there are none, or nobody willing to step forward. The have more in common with the APC than a Bicycle awareness group.

[twoNeurons]

Originally Posted by deasine

While not safe, it's not illegal.



Please, many cyclists don't do this either.



Again, while not safe, it's not illegal.



This is a complete different story as I do this myself. However, I don't support people talking on the phones without bluetooth or headsets.



This is funny. As a cyclist, I don't do this.

It's really a matter of when to do stuff when it's safely. Do I really follow the 50 km/hr speed limit. Generally, I drive with the flow of the traffic. Do I make a complete stop at stop signs? No, but I slow down enough to make sure I check twice to not run into anyone.

I'm sick and tired of this cyclist vs. cars debate here at SSP. In reality, both groups have many problems and it will always be that way.

I would think that protesting against "illegal" things is kind of silly, don't you think?

The whole idea of a protest to raise public awareness to a practice or cause that is currently "legal" to do something about it.

All that being said, when reading the newspaper the other day, I did have a distinct feeling that the writer had a personal grudge to bear.

Only negative comments were also shown as feedback, whereas they usually try to publish both sides. I was surprised not to see anything positive. I expect the news to be reported, not opined.

That's what the opinion column is for.

[b5baxter]

Originally Posted by whatnext

.... So now hundreds of small and large businesses downtown will suffer as people avoid it like the plague tomorrow.
....

That's a bit ridiculous. This has happened every month for 10 years in Vancouver.

And in 100s of other cities around the world. And for even longer with more cyclists in San Francisco.

And this isn't even the month with the biggest ride.

I haven't heard of any businesses suffering from this event before.

[DKaz]

Cyclists beware, if you block my walk to the skytrain station after work I will get physical about it. You "art holier than thou" hippies are waging war not only against drivers but also pedestrians and transit riders.

[b5baxter]

Originally Posted by WarrenC12

Even Gregor came out yesterday and said he doesn't like what they are doing. ....

http://www.flickr.com/photos/belltown/3034293628/

And Peter Ladner of the NPA has also participated in Critical Mass:
ttp://www.straight.com/article/councillors-get-their-asses-to-critical-mass

[radacal]

I don't have a problem with critical mess, er mass, per se, but these morons insist on blocking traffic and flaunting their self rightousness. Obey the traffic lights and other rules of the road and nobody gets upset....

[WarrenC12]

Originally Posted by b5baxter

http://www.flickr.com/photos/belltown/3034293628/

And Peter Ladner of the NPA has also participated in Critical Mass:
ttp://www.straight.com/article/councillors-get-their-asses-to-critical-mass

Yes, many politicians participated in the past, but they can smell rotten as well as the rest of us. That's my whole point, even the bike-loving mayor says the event in it's current form is wrong.

I can think of 100 better ways to do something like this.

VANCOUVER — Vancouver's mayor and police chief have called for a meeting with organizers of the Critical Mass bike rides to find ways of preventing the type of traffic disruption and chaos expected at Friday's event.

Mayor Gregor Robertson and Vancouver police Chief Jim Chu said in a news release Thursday they want to discuss creating a predetermined route, "as well as ways to reduce tension and improve safety for all citizens."

"We believe that due to the sheer size of Critical Mass, that a spontaneous route is no longer workable and that there is an urgent need for a predictable route," Robertson said in the statement.

"Without an agreement on a negotiated, predetermined route, future Critical Mass rides will require stricter rules and guidelines."

The Critical Mass ride, which happens the last Friday of each month, has morphed from a small protest into an event with thousands of cyclists. Friday's ride is expected to be one of the largest, with 3,000 cyclists leaving the Vancouver Art Gallery at 5 p.m.

The public tension caused by the event's traffic disruption threatens to cause a backlash against cyclists in Vancouver, the mayor said.

"We are asking the organizers to help us make future rides safer and less confrontational for everyone by meeting with us to discuss times and routes that could reduce the tension," he said.

"We have taken tremendous steps to improve cycling infrastructure across the city, and ongoing problems from Critical Mass rides threaten to create a backlash against cycling in Vancouver."

Chu stressed that a policy of mass arrests would be counterproductive. "We recognize that the riders have a constitutional right to freedom of expression, association and peaceful assembly," he said.

"We don't believe that a widespread enforcement crackdown with mass ticketing and arrests is the answer. In fact we believe that would make the situation worse for everyone. Of course, any violence or serious criminal behaviour will not be tolerated."

Earlier in the day, the mayor said his message for motorists stuck in Friday's disruption was: "Be patient for one more Critical Mass ride because we may not be able to alleviate the congestion but we'll do everything we can."

At a meeting Thursday with The Vancouver's Sun editorial board, Robertson was asked what the city and police plan to do about the bike protest ride shutting down rush-hour traffic during a busy long weekend.

"We're on it and we're going to try to mitigate the situation this Friday," Robertson said, adding he planned to meet with Chu to discuss the problem.

"It pisses people off when they get caught in it," the mayor said, adding he's "pissed off" about the controversy that has arisen and that the organizers have not announced their route.

"I want this to change," Robertson said, adding the protest is like a "headless creature" because officials have difficulty identifying the organizers.

The event's growth has led to longer waits for inconvenienced motorists and mounting tensions. Last month, a cyclist was assaulted by an angry motorist.

http://www.vancouversun.com/travel/M...989/story.html

Preach on brother Gregor! I'm normally not a VV supporter, but he's exactly right here. I'm a commuter cyclist much like him, and this is exactly how I feel.

[s211]

Originally Posted by racc

So if you really care about congestion, then don't drive. You only make the road more congested.

I walk to work, you sanctimonious _______.

[DKaz]

Originally Posted by s211

I walk to work, you sanctimonious treehugger.

Oooo fill in the blanks.

[b5baxter]

best article on the subject yet:
http://www.straight.com/article-2450...-mass-hysteria

[whatnext]

Originally Posted by b5baxter

best article on the subject yet:
http://www.straight.com/article-2450...-mass-hysteria

The most in interesting thing about the article is that Gregor was stupid enough to ride without a helmet (he has how many kids?)

This "protest" has outlived its usefulness and continuing to tolerate it is just another example of the inmates running the asylum in Vancouver.

[racc]

Originally Posted by WarrenC12

Stop trying a straw man argument, this isn't about daily cyclist/driver issues. I'm a cyclist, and I see horrible driver and other cyclist behaviour on a daily basis.

Stop worrying about non problems like critical mass. We face much bigger problems in this region and this world without people getting their shorts in a knot over a ride that lasts for 1-2 hours once a month that has been going on for ten years without the world as we know ending. Even if you think congestion is a problem it is mostly caused by people driving. Critical Mass has been going for years. All this hysteria is just the media trying to create conflict to sell papers.

Time for everyone to ditch all the drama and take a chill pill.

[mr.x]

I sure do hope they won't do this thing during the Olympics, it's absolutely inconsiderate.



I really do dislike Georgia Straight writers:

There are many large events in Vancouver that disrupt traffic: the Celebration of Lights, sporting events, etc. So why is an event that has happened every month for more than a decade now being portrayed as an impending crisis?

Perhaps the main difference between the fireworks/sporting events and Critical Mass is that the former is there to watch an event, and thus large crowds form, while the latter intends to disrupt traffic just because they can! These thousands of bikers are simply inconsiderate.

There's no comparison with this event and construction projects, they are apples and oranges. Essentially, you're saying you want our roads, sewers, and water mains to deteriorate from a lack of maintenance. Awesome!

[Yume-sama]

Critical mass is annoying for pedestrians, not just cars. I waited at the damn corner for 20 minutes (with DOZENS of other annoyed people) as they passed, and ended up being late for an appointment, one woman was hit by some cyclists as she got impatient and darted across (also causing some cyclists to hit eachother). I can understand their thinking, but it really would be better if it was at a pre-determined time and place.

And yes, the mayor should be fined for riding without a helmet

[radacal]

During one of these rides, someone is going to be trying to be rushed to St. Pauls Emergency in their own car and will die because these loonies won't let them pass but instead will hold up the traffic to 'celebrate cycling'. Never mind that there are couriers trying to deliver packages, people trying to get home to their children, people trying to get to meetings, people avoiding downtown due to this and causing loss of business to downtown stores....

[WarrenC12]

Originally Posted by racc

Stop worrying about non problems like critical mass. We face much bigger problems in this region and this world without people getting their shorts in a knot over a ride that lasts for 1-2 hours once a month that has been going on for ten years without the world as we know ending. Even if you think congestion is a problem it is mostly caused by people driving. Critical Mass has been going for years. All this hysteria is just the media trying to create conflict to sell papers.

Time for everyone to ditch all the drama and take a chill pill.

Hello! If it wasn't such a big problem we wouldn't be talking about it. Why don't you just admit it's a terrible event that needs to change dramatically or end.

[usog]

http://www.vancouversun.com/Transit+...018/story.html

I really, really love how us transit users are conveniently ignored by cyclists whenever they try to make a point, since we don't fit the bracket of evil car users, yet we usually take collateral damage from their actions if they affect cars. I think no one really objects to Critical Mass per se, it's just that we'd love it if you guys announced a route in advance, at least for us poor bus riders.

[SpongeG]

meh its summer its vancouver we don't have to get anywhere just sit smoke some bc produce and enjoy

[Spork]

Originally Posted by racc

What alternate universe do you live in where drivers are not constantly speeding, tailgating, running red lights, not signalling, texting, talking on the phone, not stopping at crosswalks, getting stuck in the middle of intersections during red lights and rolling though stop signs. To be honest, I expect that drivers are no worse or better than cyclists except that drivers kill hundreds and injure thousands of people in BC every year.

Most drivers are OK around cyclists. It just takes a few though to scare cyclists off the road. The real problem is all the people talking on their cell phones. Bottom line, whether it is intentional illegal or not, drivers intimidate most cyclists off busy roads.

Key word: purposefully

You clearly stated intent.