Retail News

[Jon Dalton]

Originally Posted by markbarbera

The Burlington MEC has practically no chance of failing. It has a solid market base within Burlington's demographics. If it didn't it wouldn't have been built there. IMO any MEC member that wishes failure upon any of their locations deserves to have his/her membership revoked.

You're right and I'm sure their decision was based on substantial market research. It will do much better than it would in Hamilton. However it is still bad news for Hamilton's suffering downtown retail situation and for those (granted, the minority) downtown residents who prefer to shop locally. If I had a MEC membership, I'd give it up.

[BCTed]

Originally Posted by Jon Dalton

You're right and I'm sure their decision was based on substantial market research. It will do much better than it would in Hamilton. However it is still bad news for Hamilton's suffering downtown retail situation and for those (granted, the minority) downtown residents who prefer to shop locally. If I had a MEC membership, I'd give it up.

So you would boycott the company for making what seems to be a good business decision? Does that not sound a bit irrational and silly?

[highwater]

Originally Posted by BCTed

So you would boycott the company for making what seems to be a good business decision? Does that not sound a bit irrational and silly?

If you'd been paying any attention, you would know that people are talking about voting with their wallets because they believe MEC has made a BAD long-term business decision. You may disagree with that judgement, but that doesn't make the choice to boycott irrational and silly. You pro-sprawl people are always telling us that if we don't like Walmart, we don't have to shop there. Well, we don't like MEC's move to the big box format so we're not going to shop there, yet you're dumping on us. Talk about irrational and silly.

[FairHamilton]

Originally Posted by BCTed

So you would boycott the company for making what seems to be a good business decision? Does that not sound a bit irrational and silly?

A good business decision for an organization doesn't necessarily translate into a decision that benefits the community, or groups within the community.

Kind of like it was a good business decision for the cigarette companies to market to children, but.........

[Jon Dalton]

Originally Posted by BCTed

So you would boycott the company for making what seems to be a good business decision? Does that not sound a bit irrational and silly?

If this was any other store their location would be a simple business decision. But MEC, until now, was a departure from the norm. It was one company with an environmental mandate that went beyond smooth PR and had tangible effects on their building construction and their growth strategy. For alot of us MEC represented hope for reinvestment in Hamilton's core, as this investment would make sound business and environmental sense.

[Jon Dalton]

Originally Posted by fastcarsfreedom

Jon Dalton--with all due respect, if one takes you at your word you shouldn't be going anywhere to shop other than downtown. Last time I checked you could still buy records downtown.

As for "hoping it fails" - we are in a challenged economy--I for one don't intend on doing any grave dancing--people's livelihoods are at stake--and assuming a failed business in Burlington doesn't impact the greater regional economy shows a pretty barren understanding of economics.

That is true - I only shop downtown with the rare exception. This is a matter of preference and possibly also because I'm lazy when it comes to shopping. As for records, even after the unfortunate passing of Sonic Unyon's retail operation, I buy 90% of them downtown from Cheapies and the 3 times yearly record shows.

As to hoping it fails, yes that was a little harsh and it probably springs from indignation that judging from their portfolio, a project like the federal building would have gone forward in any other city. Winnipeg for example, is similar - reuse of an abandoned building in an urban area. If it takes one poorly placed MEC location flopping to convince them to return to their former strategy of investing in urban areas, the net effect will be good. I would also maintain that the overall effect of suburban retail expansion on Hamilton's economy, especially outside of our city limits, is a net loss.

[raisethehammer]

this is pretty funny.
Now we're actually supposed to respond to a post that suggests Brant St in Burlington is just as urban, no more car-dependant, not chosen due to highway location, MORE convenient for cyclists and just as well served by transit as the MEC Toronto store??


Mark, you're a great poster, but seem to be hammered on the koolaid on this one.

Fastcars - spare us the drama re: grave-dancing etc.....geez.

[markbarbera]

Originally Posted by raisethehammer

this is pretty funny.
Now we're actually supposed to respond to a post that suggests Brant St in Burlington is just as urban, no more car-dependant, not chosen due to highway location, MORE convenient for cyclists and just as well served by transit as the MEC Toronto store??


Mark, you're a great poster, but seem to be hammered on the koolaid on this one.

Don't put words into my mouth. I never claimed the Burlington location to be 'as urban' as Toronto's. Nor did I ever deny that its proximity to the highway was not a factor in its location decision (just as the Toronto location's proximity to the Gardiner was a factor in its location decision).

Frankly, the Burlington location is much more convenient for cyclists. Having a dedicated bike lane is exactly what a cyclist prefers to travel on. Have you ever tried cycling down King Street in Toronto? There are no dedicated bike lanes, and you are sharing the road with cars while dealing with heavy traffic patterns and streetcar tracks to boot. It is far from being bike-friendly.

Certainly there is more frequent transit service to MEC Toronto. However, there is no significant advantage to transit time for the transit user demographic of the Toronto MEC compared to the demographics for the Burlington MEC. And the Burlington MEC will certainly be much better served by transit than you have tried to portray.

The kool-aid reference is now in the realm of an overused cliche. Besides, you have used this tired Jonestown reference in an incorrect context.

[fastcarsfreedom]

I'm just about the least dramatic person you could ever meet...or encounter in an internet Forum. There is no drama here--wishing for a business to fail is wishing for people to be unemployed--plain and simple.

[raisethehammer]

i'm starting to think that some of you work for burlington EcDev.
What do you care about where we shop??
I happen to make an annual day in TO, including MEC and I'll continue to do so. Now you're telling us that we can only support jobs in cities/regions that you approve of??
While we're on the topic, I'm wondering if I have your permission to shop at the MEC in Ottawa next time I visit?? Is it on your special list, or will I get chastised for visiting it?

[adam]

Lets get real people, anybody who shops at the MEC in Burlington is going to arrive by car.

[raisethehammer]

the federal building site had no chance of failure either. it's a destination store that will draw crowds in any urban/suburban setting.
It's just a shame to see them sell out ala Walmart and start using foreign labour and choosing a car-dependent location for a new store.

[BCTed]

Originally Posted by raisethehammer

the federal building site had no chance of failure either.

I don't know that. You don't know that. Did MEC ever actually consider the federal building or is all of this just based on another wild suggestion from the boards that it would have been a good location?

[flar]

Originally Posted by BCTed

I don't know that. You don't know that. Did MEC ever actually consider the federal building or is all of this just based on another wild suggestion from the boards that it would have been a good location?

MEC definitely studied a Hamilton location. I'm pretty sure MEC actively considered that site, and several forum members were actually in contact with MEC about it.

[raisethehammer]

Originally Posted by flar

MEC definitely studied a Hamilton location. I'm pretty sure MEC actively considered that site, and several forum members were actually in contact with MEC about it.

yes, MEC did consider that site, but it was too late.
City's EcDev department was working with them too. MEC sent an email to staff expressing their pleasure at the good job and great business case being made to locate there, but had already made the decision in burlington.

[BCTed]

Originally Posted by raisethehammer

yes, MEC did consider that site, but it was too late.
City's EcDev department was working with them too. MEC sent an email to staff expressing their pleasure at the good job and great business case being made to locate there, but had already made the decision in burlington.

If the decision had already been made, then it was just a diplomatic gesture rather than actual consideration.

[fastcarsfreedom]

I am forever amused at "greener pasture" comparisons with other cities which are progressive and adaptively reuse their heritage buildings.

The City of Winnipeg forged headlong when it came to demolishing the T. Eaton Co. store on Portage Avenue--and it was a building with significant heritage value as well as being symbolically important from a Canadian historical perspective. There is, however, a single Tyndall Limestone display window built in to the concourse of the MTS Centre...if that's what you mean by adaptive reuse.

Time will tell if the MEC location in Burlington is "poorly" placed. As I stated above, I suspect they've done their due dillignence and chose an optimal location for their target demographic (as IKEA did several years ago). As I stated previously, as a "destination" retailer, the vast majority of MEC's clientele drive substantial distances to reach their stores--it's the hard truth...same goes for Burlington as does for Toronto.

I for one don't work for Burlington EcDev. I do recognize the fantastic job that particular department has done over the past 15 or 20 years in attracting businesses to their city. Moreover, I recognize that as part of the Hamilton CMA, what is good for Burlington, is ultimately good for Hamilton.

[raisethehammer]

Winnipeg downtown has WAY more historic, large buildings that have been kept and revitalized than Hamilton. They kill us in the adaptive reuse category. The demo of Eatons doesn't change that.

[realcity]

can we stop discussing MEC. It's worse then Buffalo's Bass Pro.

What happened to Shopppers Drugmart trying to locate downtown?

I heard Darko wanted them to occupy the ground floor of his federal building, if he got a good retail tenant then the condos would be built.

[BCTed]

Originally Posted by realcity

can we stop discussing MEC. It's worse then Buffalo's Bass Pro.

This may be the first time that I have ever agreed with you. I do not understand all of the mourning for something that was never even under consideration. And while a shop like that is a nice thing to have, it is still relatively small potatoes --- certainly not something that deserves this much attention, at least in my mind.

At least all of the back-and-forth Bass Pro stuff in Buffalo was real --- the company was always hoping to come to Buffalo. It turns out that a store will indeed be constructed. And it will be 150,000 to 200,000 square feet, close to ten times the size of the MEC store.