Gore Park

[go_leafs_go02]

That's the thing. You grow up somewhere, you instantly have alot of pride for the city. I'm from London, and I unashamedly advocate for that city being one of the nicest cities in Ontario. Am i right? probably not, but yeah. That sense of pride you have for your hometown is commendable, but honestly, take off the blinders towards Hamilton being a place that's amazing, and better than most other communities in Ontario in terms of the people. A person looking to invest in place who checks out Hamilton and walks around Gore Park at any time of the day likely isn't going to be too thrilled or want to come back.

Hamilton is awesome once you get out of the old city proper region. I Love Dundas, I love ancaster, I love the natural beauty of the escarpment and stuff. I can instantly tell the difference between Ancaster and Dundas compared to Hamilton..things are just built and maintained better.

Hamilton arguably is the dirtiest and poorest city in Ontario, if not Canada. Commenting on urine, feces or whatever present in your neck of the city isn't a good thing. Like you think you got it bad here? Try it over here....If that's the general complacency, and you like Hamilton for what it is right now, then yeah. Good luck. I'm out of here as soon as i can. (I'm kinda leaning towards co-op jobs either in downtown Toronto - Bay. St. or Surrey BC)

[flar]

^^With all due respect, you should continue to explore the old city before you make statements like that. There are plenty of beautiful neighbourhoods in the old city, some of them just as nice or nicer than Dundas and Ancaster and some with homes and settings far superior to anything found in London.

My Hamilton neighbourhood tours don't lie, they show the good and the bad, these are examples of nice areas in the old city:

Kirkendall
Westdale
St. Clair
Durand
Stinson
The Bayfront
Strathcona
The Beach

[raisethehammer]

wow...lots of ignorance, false info and fearmongering on the board today.

here's a starting point -
http://www12.statcan.ca/english/census06...ton&SearchType=Begins&SearchPR=01&B1=All


go through and look at all family income levels for canadian cities.
And please spare us the intentionally ignorant posts in the future.

[FairHamilton]

Originally Posted by highwater

Come visit us in Westdale where our streets reek of vomit, urine, and feces left by young, educated hipsters.

No thanks, I wouldn't fit with that crowd either.

I'm no longer that young, no longer a hipster (debatable if I ever was one), and have a strong bladder and 2 working toilets at my home

[markk]

I grew up in Hamilton, then moved to London to go to UWO. Now that I'm back in Hamilton and working downtown everyday, I must admit that I often wish that our downtown (esp. Gore Park) was a bit less sketch and a bit more class. I know some people think we are lucky to have such diverse core that doesn't resemble a shopping mall, but truthfully, I think I would be willing to trade some of the grit for a bit more of a polished park. I say that not to sound like an elitest, but I do love this city and I think we can have both - grit and class.

Perhaps the city's plan to pedestrianize Gore will help achieve this. I appreciate places like Al Centro, Mahal, and Chesters - and I'd like to see more of this type of activity in our core rather than the Bingo Halls and sketchy peeps.

[crhayes]

Originally Posted by markk

I grew up in Hamilton, then moved to London to go to UWO. Now that I'm back in Hamilton and working downtown everyday, I must admit that I often wish that our downtown (esp. Gore Park) was a bit less sketch and a bit more class. I know some people think we are lucky to have such diverse core that doesn't resemble a shopping mall, but truthfully, I think I would be willing to trade some of the grit for a bit more of a polished park. I say that not to sound like an elitest, but I do love this city and I think we can have both - grit and class.

Perhaps the city's plan to pedestrianize Gore will help achieve this. I appreciate places like Al Centro, Mahal, and Chesters - and I'd like to see more of this type of activity in our core rather than the Bingo Halls and sketchy peeps.

My best friend just moved to London to go to UWO, and he loves it lol. Actually I'm going there tonight to party haha. I see london being like a mini Hamilton. It has its nice areas, like around Western and Richmond DT, but it also has its ugly areas (Like Highbury near the bus terminal). However, this is true for every city.

Ultimately what I see is that there is not enough commercial business downtown. If you look at cities like Toronto, and many in the states like Houston, they have thousands/millions of people that commute into the downtown everyday to work. Many of those people end up walking the streets at break/on lunch. They may do so before/after work as well, and they contribute to local businesses. They buy lunch at local restaurants, shop at local stores etc. In Hamilton we don't have this. There are a few business type people walking around Jackson Square or down James, but that's about it. Therefore, the sketchy types are the ones that dominate our downtown.

We really are stuck between a rock and a hard place. We need business downtown to drown out the sketchy types, yet investing in downtown seems difficult in part because of their presence. Either way you look at it, the sketchies are part of the problem and the soution is very difficult.

[thistleclub]

SteelTown, I think your James North comment is a bit overstated. There was a stretch of time when there were scuffles around Mission Services, but I don't recall a crack epidemic 10 years ago. And going back a little further, I know of many university students who went to little hole-in-the-wall ethnic restaurants, cafés and groceries, shopped at the cigar shop or the army surplus, maybe grabbed a pack of beer from the Murray Street outlet. It's never simple.

As for Gore Park, even those who are untroubled by its current mix must reasonably concede that it is a challenged public space. As a crossroads of the city's transit system, it's a candidate for closer scrutiny in this regard, unless you allow that the CBD should be held to the standard of the average bus terminal. (Even then, I don't know how favourably it'd rate.) Then there's the soul-crushing monotony: How many convenience stores and cash advance shops do you pass going from James to John along those northern sidewalks slathered in soda and shwarma drippings and polka-dotted with gum? I have lived downtown for more than a decade and never had any sort of issues with anyone, never feared for my safety, and I think that on the whole, downtown is on the upswing. But Gore can be a bit much sometimes. As has been said elsewhere, it is a matter of ratios: take 100 "undesirables" and pump in 5,000 model citizens and the optics change dramatically. But like the chicken and egg of retail and residential, it'll take some doing.

BTW, FairHamilton, I hope that you get your turkey jones under control. If your friends won't tell you, I will: $75 a week constitutes a bad habit.

[go_leafs_go02]

Originally Posted by flar

^^With all due respect, you should continue to explore the old city before you make statements like that. There are plenty of beautiful neighbourhoods in the old city, some of them just as nice or nicer than Dundas and Ancaster and some with homes and settings far superior to anything found in London.

My Hamilton neighbourhood tours don't lie, they show the good and the bad, these are examples of nice areas in the old city:

Kirkendall
Westdale
St. Clair
Durand
Stinson
The Bayfront
Strathcona
The Beach

Yeah, i'll retract that statement. I haven't seen the majority of the city east of Upper James/James St. I was definitely impressed by Locke Street, and the vibrancy around there. I just forgot about it.

My extent of my travels honestly involve - My home in West Mountain, Mohawk College, and Gore Park. that's the majority of what i see, I go outside sometimes, but not that much.

[FairHamilton]

Originally Posted by thistleclub

BTW, FairHamilton, I hope that you get your turkey jones under control. If your friends won't tell you, I will: $75 a week constitutes a bad habit.

I'm finishing the last of the leftovers at dinner tonight and man has it made good sandwiches at lunch this week.

After tonight I'm quitting cold tu......., ah never mind.

[the dude]

Originally Posted by go_leafs_go02

(I'm kinda leaning towards co-op jobs either in downtown Toronto - Bay. St. or Surrey BC)

ha ha...have fun in surrey! total suburban wasteland. sounds like something you'd be into.

[adam]

Nobody has mentioned that Hamilton centre has grown in positive leaps and bounds in the past 10 years - even 5 years. Things are slowly but surely changing around. There are a lot fewer vacant storefronts and a lot more employed people downtown than there was just a short while ago.. Its moving in the right direction.!!

[BCTed]

Originally Posted by raisethehammer

I take it many of you have never travelled outside of Western nations. If you don't like the mix of people in Gore Park I don't think you'd enjoy hanging out by the gulf of mexico flea market in Veracruz or being in shanty towns in the Dominican or the heart of the inner city in Bogota. Cuba was another eye opener.
I loved all these places and would go back in a heartbeat. It's good for young people to grow up with a better perspective of the world and not their fake, Hollywood version on the tv everynight.
It's why I hate our suburbs in N.America. It's nothing more than a cleaner, less offensive means of segregation. The day my neighbourhood goes all uppity like Aberdeen I'm outta there.

Although there certainly is a correlation. I'm not sure that people here are necessarily tying the sketchiness of Gore Park to poverty. The areas that you describe may be very poor, but they are not necessarily full of shady characters like the ones that I argue can be found in Gore Park. And if it takes the poorest cities in the least developed nations that you have visited to beat the Gore in terms of visible poverty, then that is also not saying much about Hamilton.

You always seem to mention "fake" and "Hollywood." I am not sure what is so fake or Hollywood or wrong with someone hoping to see increased numbers of clean-cut and wholesome (whether affluent or not) people in downtown Hamilton.

[BCTed]

Originally Posted by the dude

nope, he's not the only one. i'm gonna go out on a limb here and say that anyone who's lived in another city or travelled ANYWHERE doesn't take issue with the denizens of our lovely dilapidated downtown. that's life in the city, man. sure, it's a little disproportional but i'm tired of the constant refrain that somehow hamilton is worse than other cities. perhaps the homeless or those 'sketchy' types look worse sitting on the corner of king and james compared to hanging out on queen west. get out there and experience the world outside the GTA.

Your post must be another condemnation of the citizens of Hamilton, as it appears that the vast majority of people who have chimed in to this thread have not travelled "ANYWHERE". I think that to abstract away the sketchiness of downtown Hamilton/Gore Park by somehow painting it as representative of a typical city really is a huge stretch in my books. And there is a big difference between the dead centre of town (King and James) versus a relatively small offshoot. Queen West has a different breed of sketch, where for large numbers of people sketch appears to be more a form of artistic expression than anything else.

[BCTed]

Originally Posted by oldcoote

C'mon Ted.

Have you been to Toronto, or do you just avoid Church and Queen, or Sherbourne St, or St James Park.

Downtown Toronto was exactly like downtown Hamilton is. It's been gentrified enormously in the past 20 years, but there are still a lot of 'sketchy' area's.

A lot of this thread is sounding xenophobic to me.

Point made with some of those areas, oldcoote. However, they are still not in the dead centre of the downtown core and are well off to the side. There are not any locations of real interest in those areas, whereas anything that downtown Hamilton has to offer is pretty much surrounded by "sketch".

I am still having difficulty believing that anyone is arguing against Gore Park's sketch factor.

[the dude]

Originally Posted by BCTed

Although there certainly is a correlation. I'm not sure that people here are necessarily tying the sketchiness of Gore Park to poverty. The areas that you describe may be very poor, but they are not necessarily full of shady characters like the ones that I argue can be found in Gore Park. And if it takes the poorest cities in the least developed nations that you have visited to beat the Gore in terms of visible poverty, then that is also not saying much about Hamilton.

sorry, but that's an insane comment. ever been through vancouver's downtown east side? also, there are parts of winnipeg, edmonton and regina that are downright scary. oh and tonnes of crazies in ottawa roaming bank, rideau and elgin streets...at least that's how i recall my two years there but what would i know? every city suffers from the same challenges and there are no easy answers as to how to fix it. these are not problems that are unique to hamilton.

[go_leafs_go02]

Originally Posted by the dude

sorry, but that's an insane comment. ever been through vancouver's downtown east side? also, there are parts of winnipeg, edmonton and regina that are downright scary. oh and tonnes of crazies in ottawa roaming bank, rideau and elgin streets...at least that's how i recall my two years there but what would i know? every city suffers from the same challenges and there are no easy answers as to how to fix it. these are not problems that are unique to hamilton.

Notice..they're not FREAKING downtown (Vancouver's east side is a completely different world from the downtown most people associated with the city). Gore Park is absolutely downtown, a place where the average tourist (if any) is going to check out. Gore Park is steps away from Hamilton Place, Jackson Square, Copps Coliseum - all places where people from out of towners go.

that's the thing. This is a central spot - smack dab downtown. Tourists don't go to vancouver's east side or poorer parts of other cities, because there is nothing touristic or really to do there, and they're far away from local attractions generally.

[BCTed]

Originally Posted by the dude

sorry, but that's an insane comment. ever been through vancouver's downtown east side? also, there are parts of winnipeg, edmonton and regina that are downright scary. oh and tonnes of crazies in ottawa roaming bank, rideau and elgin streets...at least that's how i recall my two years there but what would i know? every city suffers from the same challenges and there are no easy answers as to how to fix it. these are not problems that are unique to hamilton.

raisethehammer was the person making comparisons with places in Central and South America and the Caribbean, not me. And as I and go_leafs_go02 and others have stated, Gore Park is the epicenter of downtown Hamilton. It is darn sketchy there and I would not want to associate in any way with most people who are to be found there. Independent of how much money they have in their bank accounts, they do not seem like good people for the most part.

[adam]

People are suggesting its the sketchy peoples' faults for the state of the downtown. But isn't this just blaming a symptom for the problem?

The problem started when affluent people started moving into suburbs and abandoned the downtown in the 1950's. This happened ALL across North America. Its well documented and we can't go blaming "sketchy" people for the state of our downtown.

We are slowwwwwwly starting to see a turn-around as urban areas become preferred over suburban wastelands. I think Jackson Square needs to start with a grocery store and start attracting quality stores. Hamilton can certainly do a better job of advertising and promoting the downtown as well. We took a lot out of the downtown with suburban "drain" and consequently need to put a lot back into it to get it going again. Blaming destitute people isn't going to achieve anything. We should be helping them get out of their situation if anything.

[raisethehammer]

I was almost mugged on the main drag in Miami Beach and downtown Boston (the main shopping strip downtown) for simply walking by and minding my own business.
My above description of my first visit to TO was on Yonge at Dundas.
Some of you need to do some traveling and I don't mean to St. Thomas or Tillsonburg.

[Millstone]

Originally Posted by raisethehammer

I was almost mugged on the main drag in Miami Beach and downtown Boston (the main shopping strip downtown) for simply walking by and minding my own business.
My above description of my first visit to TO was on Yonge at Dundas.
Some of you need to do some traveling and I don't mean to St. Thomas or Tillsonburg.

Then YOU need to do the travelling to the small towns.