It happened at an apartment complex not known for problems, but apartments these days, no matter what neighborhood, are a magnet for crime (even when rent is high).
Domestic violence has always been a substantial contributor to homicide and the denser the housing, the more distilled are families and the violence that happens in them. I think it has little to do with "apartments" and simply with dense multifamily housing potentially having many times the number of family units on a given chunk of land and thus many times the potential for homicide.
See the article I posted just above. San Francisco is much denser than Oakland and a lot of San Francisco housing is mid- and high-rise apartments while a lot of the worst parts of Oakland is single family homes. The homicide rate is tremendously higher in those stretches of SFHs in Oakland than in the San Francisco apartments. In this case, it's about demographics, gangs and other factors.
Which of these two neighborhoods do you think has by far the higher crime rate?
Portland has 51 homicides (I believe) after a mass-shooting downtown left 1 dead and 6 wounded, and an unrelated shooting in another part of the city left 1 man dead.
Domestic violence has always been a substantial contributor to homicide and the denser the housing, the more distilled are families and the violence that happens in them. I think it has little to do with "apartments" and simply with dense multifamily housing potentially having many times the number of family units on a given chunk of land and thus many times the potential for homicide.
See the article I posted just above. San Francisco is much denser than Oakland and a lot of San Francisco housing is mid- and high-rise apartments while a lot of the worst parts of Oakland is single family homes. The homicide rate is tremendously higher in those stretches of SFHs in Oakland than in the San Francisco apartments. In this case, it's about demographics, gangs and other factors.
Which of these two neighborhoods do you think has by far the higher crime rate?
West Oakland, CA
Rincon Hill-South Beach, San Francisco, CA
Google Earth
You're comparing a lower density, lower income, part of Oakland with a high density and wealthy part of SF.
You know SF has low income/rough parts (and it certainly has families lol), why not use them in your comparison? They have a mixture of single family homes and apartment buildings, but are mostly apartments, just like every other part of SF.
One of these areas, the Tenderloin, has the densest census tracts in the city of SF and is entirely apartment buildings. At least 5 of SF's murders so far this year have occurred there, giving it a murder rate so far of 20+ per 100,000 residents, which is not much lower than the rate of 27 in zone 5 of Oakland, that you just posted about.
So, you're wrong when you say that the murder rate in single family home areas of Oakland is "tremendously higher" than in apartment areas of SF. Compared to SF, Oakland obviously has more areas with struggling poor people and a lot of murder, but SF does have similar areas with the same kind of stuff going on at similar rates, just like so many other cities.
Anyway, SF is at 26 murders, up from 24 at this time last year. 119 shooting victims so far, up from 58 at this time last year.
You're comparing a lower density, lower income, part of Oakland with a high density and wealthy part of SF.
You know SF has low income/rough parts (and it certainly has families lol), why not use them in your comparison? They have a mixture of single family homes and apartment buildings, but are mostly apartments, just like every other part of SF.
One of these areas, the Tenderloin, has the densest census tracts in the city of SF and is entirely apartment buildings. At least 5 of SF's murders so far this year have occurred there, giving it a murder rate so far of 20+ per 100,000 residents, which is not much lower than the rate of 27 in zone 5 of Oakland, that you just posted about.
The point you are missing is that it's income and other factors that matter, not apartment building vs SFH and that was the point I was making. There's simply no studies that indicate apartment buildings are more associated with murder more than SFHs. If you know of any, cite them. What you have to do is compare the murder rates with density--housing units/sq mile--in mostly apartment areas vs SFH areas. But if apartment living mattered much, then even wealthy areas of apartments--like Rincon Hill--would have more of them. And the post to which I was responding specifically said that even expensive apartments ("even when rent is high") had more murders so your comment is totally off point.
I'll see your Tenderloin and raise you a Bayview which is almost all low rise with a lot of SFH as well as apartments under 5 floors.
Quote:
A majority of homicides, 53 to 70 percent, could be traced back to “group dynamics,” Crandall said. Meanwhile, 50 to 77 percent of non-fatal shootings were connected to the groups. Another factor of street violence, Crandall said, was “street disorder,” which is violence connected to homelessness and the drug market — mostly in the Tenderloin. Together those categories accounted for 38 percent of homicides.
But groups committing violence toward other groups to settle disputes was the main driver of the violence, Crandall said. Many of the groups are spread out across the city — in the Bayview, Mission, Ingleside, Park and Northern policing districts, according to the study, which did not specify neighborhoods. Many of the “groups” in the Mission are connected to Norteño and Sureño gangs, whereas groups elsewhere appeared to have fewer formal gang affiliations.
1 dead - https://www.kxan.com/news/crime/suspect-charged-with-capital-murder-after-man-was-found-dead-in-round-rock/?utm_campaign=alert_bar&utm_source=side_bullets - Round Rock shooting - 1/9
1 dead - https://cbsaustin.com/news/local/one-person-dead-after-shooting-in-northeast-austin - Austin shooting - 1/11
1 dead - http://www.austintexas.gov/news/homicide-5000-brighton-road - Austin shooting - 1/18
1 dead - https://www.statesman.com/story/news/2021/01/22/hays-county-sheriffs-office-investigating-apparent-shooting/6681601002/ - Buda shooting - 1/21
1 dead - https://www.kxan.com/news/crime/man-killed-after-shootout-between-two-groups-at-north-austin-complex-police-say/ - Austin shooting - 1/23
2 dead - http://www.austintexas.gov/news/homicide-1912-w-35th-street - Austin shooting - 1/26
1 dead - https://www.kxan.com/news/crime/one-person-dead-after-shooting-in-north-austin/?fbclid=IwAR2QlQlGL89M9QlIMXNDSAU9spvMEhu31Cpqo8Jsl-tQaPXWOlrPLuNNY4o - Austin shooting - 1/29
1 dead - https://www.kxan.com/news/local/austin/police-investigating-suspicious-death-in-east-austin-2/ - Austin shooting - 2/2
1 dead - https://www.kxan.com/news/local/police-investigating-suspicious-death-in-southeast-austin-3/ - Austin obvious trauma - 2/3
1 dead - https://www.kxan.com/news/crime/suspicious-death-being-investigated-in-central-austin/ - Austin shooting - 2/6
2 dead - https://www.kxan.com/news/crime/elderly-couple-found-dead-in-suspected-murder-suicide-at-cedar-park-home/?utm_campaign=socialflow&utm_medium=referral&utm_source=facebook.com&fbclid=IwAR2d0OJqQ9Lwib8K-06sGBipshijYzvjNIcP2vCkMkef1W-GjrUamnIZ9ws - Cedar Park murder/suicide - 2/9
1 dead - https://www.kxan.com/news/crime/19-year-old-man-stabbed-and-killed-northeast-austin-fight-police-say/ - Austin stabbing - 2/16
1 dead - https://www.kxan.com/news/crime/man-faces-murder-charge-after-wife-found-dead-at-south-austin-hotel-room/ - Austin unlisted cause - 2/16
1 dead - https://www.kxan.com/news/crime/toddler-dies-during-february-winter-storm-austin-police-investigating-as-homicide/ - Austin unlisted cause - 2/18
2 dead - https://www.kxan.com/news/local/travis-county/travis-county-deputies-investigate-possible-murder-suicide-involving-two-male-relatives/ - Pflugervile shooting - 2/19
1 dead - https://www.statesman.com/story/news/crime/2021/06/25/hutto-teacher-julie-hall-disappearance-husband-travis-hall-charged-with-murder/5352450001/ - Hutto blunt force trauma - 2/19
1 dead - https://www.kxan.com/news/one-man-dead-after-shooting-at-north-austin-apartment-complex/ - Austin shooting - 2/28
1 dead - https://www.kxan.com/news/local/austin/police-investigating-deadly-shooting-in-downtown-austin-early-sunday-morning/ - Austin shooting - 3/14
1 dead - https://www.kxan.com/news/crime/man-arrested-on-murder-charge-after-san-marcos-woman-found-dead-on-backyard-patio/ - San Marcos body found - 3/15
1 dead - https://www.kxan.com/news/local/austin/homicide-investigation-underway-after-death-thursday-morning-in-north-austin/ - Austin shooting - 3/18
1 dead - https://www.kxan.com/news/local/austin/one-person-dies-in-southeast-austin-shooting/ - Austin shooting - 3/21
1 dead - https://www.kxan.com/news/crime/police-reporting-to-scene-of-shooting-incident-in-northwest-austin-residents-should-avoid-the-area/ - Austin shooting - 3/22
1 dead - https://www.kxan.com/news/local/austin/apd-investigating-suspicious-death-in-south-austin-neighborhood/ - Austin shooting - 3/25
1 dead - http://www.austintexas.gov/news/homicide-6600-block-bradley-dr - Austin shooting - 3/27
1 dead - https://www.kxan.com/news/crime/man-taken-to-a-hospital-with-life-threatening-injuries-after-shooting-at-east-austin-home/ - Austin shooting - 3/28
1 dead - http://www.austintexas.gov/news/homicide-11100-block-n-ih-35-svrd - Austin shooting - 3/28
1 dead - https://www.kxan.com/news/local/austin/apd-investigating-homicide-in-nw-austin/ - Austin shooting - 3/31
1 dead - https://www.kvue.com/article/news/crime/leander-texas-police-knife-suspect/269-2018951c-a1c4-4d00-b9b4-c543b4ff4e3a - Leander stabbing - 3/31
1 dead - https://www.kxan.com/news/local/austin/apd-investigating-deadly-shooting-in-se-austin/ - Austin shooting - 4/6
1 dead - https://www.kxan.com/news/crime/austin-police-investigating-homicide-in-north-austin/ - Austin shooting - 4/13
3 dead - https://www.kxan.com/news/crime/active-shooter-reported-at-arboretum-in-northwest-austin-3-reportedly-injured/ - Austin shooting - 4/18
1 dead - https://www.kxan.com/news/local/poli...stin-homicide/ - Austin shooting - 4/25
1 dead - https://www.kxan.com/news/crime/poli...in-apartments/ - Austin shooting - 4/29
1 dead - https://www.kxan.com/news/crime/man-...dziJCzKgAY6OeM - Austin shooting - 5/2
1 dead - https://www.kxan.com/news/crime/16-y...n-bell-county/ - Austin shooting - 5/5
1 dead - https://www.kvue.com/article/news/cr...a-a8fd7e9920c3 - Lockhart shooting - 5/7
1 dead - https://www.kxan.com/news/local/aust...g-for-suspect/ - Austin shooting - 5/15
1 dead - https://www.kxan.com/news/crime/15-y...wntown-austin/ - Austin shooting - 5/20
1 dead - http://www.austintexas.gov/news/homi...us-highway-290 - Austin shooting - 5/23
1 dead - https://www.statesman.com/story/news...ty/5286265001/ - Pflugerville stabbing - 5/31
1 dead - https://www.kxan.com/top-stories/tcs...-south-austin/ - Pflugerville shooting - 6/1
1 dead - https://www.kxan.com/news/local/aust...theast-austin/ - Austin shooting - 6/11
1 dead - https://www.kxan.com/news/local/aust...mass-shooting/ - Austin shooting - 6/12
1 dead - https://www.kxan.com/news/local/aust...-north-austin/ - Austin shooting - 6/12
1 dead - https://www.kxan.com/news/crime/man-...n-parking-lot/ - Austin shooting - 6/17
1 dead - https://www.kxan.com/news/local/1-de...stin-shooting/ - Austin shooting - 6/20
1 dead - https://www.kxan.com/news/local/aust...n-east-austin/ - Austin shooting - 6/23
1 dead - https://www.kxan.com/news/local/aust...y-expo-center/ - Austin shooting - 6/24
1 dead - https://www.kxan.com/news/local/aust...ied-by-police/ - Austin stabbing - 6/27
1 dead - https://www.kxan.com/news/crime/1-de...in-cedar-park/ - Cedar Park shooting - 7/7
1 dead - https://www.kxan.com/news/man-dead-t...thwest-austin/ - Austin shooting - 7/12
1 dead - https://www.kxan.com/news/crime/1-pe...ar-6th-street/ - Austin shooting - 7/17
1 dead - https://www.kxan.com/news/crime/homi...tion-shooting/ - Austin shooting - 7/17
1 dead - https://www.kxan.com/news/crime/ceda...tment-complex/ - Cedar Park stabbing - 7/20
1 dead - https://www.kxan.com/news/local/will...ning-homicide/ - Round Rock shooting - 7/26
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Pending cases
Code:
1 dead - https://cbsaustin.com/news/local/apd-investigating-deceased-person-in-hotel-room-in-north-central-austin - 2/14
1 dead - https://www.kxan.com/news/local/travis-county/18-year-old-found-dead-on-recycling-center-conveyor-belt-in-travis-county/ - 3/24
1 dead - https://www.kxan.com/news/crime/28-year-old-dies-morning-after-fight-at-east-austin-strip-club-suspect-arrested/ - Austin beating - 4/7
1 dead - https://www.kxan.com/news/local/austin/adult-pronounced-dead-after-being-found-in-ravine-by-bystanders-off-us-290/ - Austin body found - 5/20
1 dead - https://www.kxan.com/news/local/austin/man-dies-after-reportedly-being-run-over-by-car-in-north-austin-parking-lot/ - Austin vehicular homicide - 6/25
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Previous years
2020 - City - 44 - Metro - 68
2019 - City - 35 - Metro - 57
2018 - City - 35 - Metro - 44
2017 - City - 23 - Metro - 43
2016 - City - 28 - Metro - 50
2015 - City - 21 - Metro - 43
2014 - City - 31 - Metro - 42
2013 - City - 26 - Metro - 46
2012 - 32
2011 - 28
2010 - 31
2009 - 23
2008 - 24
2007 - 30
2006 - 20
2005 - 26
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Previous years per month
2021 - Jan 7, Feb 9, Mar 11, Apr 7, May 7, Jun 9,
2020 - Jan 6, Feb 6, Mar 9, Apr 4, May 5, Jun 9, Jul 5, Aug 6, Sep 5, Oct 6, Nov 6, Dec 2
2019 - Jan 4, Feb 7, Mar 4, Apr 4, May 5, Jun 5, Jul 6, Aug 6, Sep 2, Oct 1, Nov 5, Dec 8
2018 - Jan 4, Feb 1, Mar 8, Apr 3, May 4, Jun 5, Jul 2, Aug 5, Sep 8, Oct 1, Nov 3, Dec 1
2017 - Jan 1, Feb 6, Mar 7, Apr 1, May 5, Jun 3, Jul 3, Aug 6, Sep 2, Oct 2, Nov 0, Dec 7
2016 - Jan 1, Feb 1, Mar 1, Apr 3, May 4, Jun 6, Jul 10, Aug 6, Sep 11, Oct 6, Nov 4, Dec 6
2015 - Jan 2, Feb 6, Mar 3, Apr 5, May 1, Jun 4, Jul 2, Aug 3, Sep 4, Oct 1, Nov 4, Dec 9
2014 - Jan 4, Feb 3, Mar 6, Apr 2, May 1, Jun 4, Jul 2, Aug 1, Sep 4, Oct 5, Nov 7, Dec 5
2013 - Jan 3, Feb 6, Mar 1, Apr 4, May 5, Jun 2, Jul 4, Aug 2, Sep 6, Oct 5, Nov 2, Dec 5
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Austin area population
City: 995,484 (July 1, 2020 estimate) - source: US Census Bureau
Travis County: 1,273,954 (July 1, 2019 estimate) - source: US Census Bureau
Metro: 2,295,303 (July 1, 2020 estimate) - source: US Census Bureau
Area - City: 297 square miles (2010) - US Census Bureau
Area - Metro: 4,285 square miles - Wikipedia
Area - Travis County: 1,023 square miles - Wikipedia
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Last edited by KevinFromTexas; Jul 27, 2021 at 8:38 AM.
I was just looking at the police dept websites of several cities and noticed that in 3 of the 5 cities I looked at, murders are down this year compared to last.
__________________ "There's two kinds of men in the world. Those who have a crush on Linda Ronstadt, and those who never heard of her." - Willie Nelson
Sweden's figures aren't sky-high but still higher than I'd expect given the image of the country most people have.
They're similar to Ottawa and Toronto which I would say are high-ish for Canada. (Though Winnipeg is even higher than them.)
London seems fairly similar to Montreal, which is what I'd consider normal (or acceptable) for Canada.
I'd expect Australian cities like Sydney and Melbourne, aside from extreme outlier years, to be fairly similar to London and Montreal.
Yes, Sweden and Canadas numbers are comparable.
We have seen a decrease in "drunken murders" and stabbings which used to be the majority of the cases, but we have increased alot in gun violence.
I believe Sweden is the only country in western europe that has increased in gun-murders since 2000 and we currently have the second highest rate in Europe only topped by Croatia.
The city of Malmö has historically been a "hot-spot" but it has now shifted to Stockholm
Yes, those "drunk guys fight each other outside a bar at 2 am, one falls and hits his head on the cement and dies" types of murders have dropped a lot here in Canada too.
When I was younger (in the 1990s) a significant number of murders were fights at bars, outside bars or at parties. Generally with punches, sometimes with knives, but rarely with guns.
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Yes, those "drunk guys fight each other outside a bar at 2 am, one falls and hits his head on the cement and dies" types of murders have dropped a lot here in Canada too.
When I was younger (in the 1990s) a significant number of murders were fights at bars, outside bars or at parties. Generally with punches, sometimes with knives, but rarely with guns.
I suspect the aging of the population is partly to credit for that. Older people tend to go to bars late at night less than younger guys do.
__________________ "There's two kinds of men in the world. Those who have a crush on Linda Ronstadt, and those who never heard of her." - Willie Nelson
Sweden's figures aren't sky-high but still higher than I'd expect given the image of the country most people have.
They're similar to Ottawa and Toronto which I would say are high-ish for Canada. (Though Winnipeg is even higher than them.)
London seems fairly similar to Montreal, which is what I'd consider normal (or acceptable) for Canada.
I'd expect Australian cities like Sydney and Melbourne, aside from extreme outlier years, to be fairly similar to London and Montreal.
When I was in Sweden in the 1970s it was the only European country where I saw drunks lying around on sidewalks at all hours of the day and night. You didn’t see that in America then either. I was rather shocked but it’s been my image of Sweden ever since.
When I was in Sweden in the 1970s it was the only European country where I saw drunks lying around on sidewalks at all hours of the day and night. You didn’t see that in America then either. I was rather shocked but it’s been my image of Sweden ever since.
Yes, the prevalence of public drunkenness, which is exists in almost all societies (except rigid Muslim ones) is one of the most shocking things about "the Nordics" in general.
While the share of murders that resulted from it was high, the overall number of murders remained quite low back then. At least in some cities, considerably lower than today - where murders typically occur for other reasons as we know.
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Here are a few stats for some East Coast cities. With the exception of maybe Philly, things seem to be settling down a bit. Boston and Cincinnati are actually down compared to this time in 2020.
Boston YTD: 19Down 10%
Rate: 2.7 per 100K
New York YTD: 212Up 12%
Rate: 2.5 per 100K
Washington DC YTD: 89Up 13%
Rate: 12.9 per 100K
Chicago YTD: 326Up 1%
Rate: 12 per 100K
Philadelphia YTD: 269Up 36%
Rate: 17 per 100K
Cincinnati YTD: 37Down 21%
Rate: 12.3 per 100K
An Update from several weeks back. All of the above are moving in the right direction from then, save for Cincinnati. Notably, Boston has fallen below NYC. Not sure there's been a year in recent history where the murder rate in Boston has been lower than New York's.
Overall violent crime rates in NYC for July 2021 are trending to be the lowest in recorded history (records go back to the late 1950's). Also, subway crime is trending to near record-lows (granted, there are fewer riding transit during the pandemic).
So the reality is that the nation's largest city currently has the lowest crime rates ever recorded. Guarantee this news won't make any impact on the "American cities are violent hellholes" narrative.