Calgary Public Transit II

[DizzyEdge]

Originally Posted by suburb

Agree completely. A hybrid 'smart solution' that moved us away from us versus them politics.



Yeah - stop using my wireless Internet, you leaches! And get a job!

Edit - sorry, he's looking for "free weed" and not "free lunch".

free weed leads to wanting lunch.

[frinkprof]

Here is the proposed bus routing system for the area served by West LRT when it opens in 2012.



There is more info and a listing of what is happening with each route in the area in this PDF: http://www.calgarytransit.com/pdf/West_LRT_Bus_Route_Open_House_June_2011.pdf

Basically the system will change from an "express to downtown" to a "feeder to LRT" system, with some other changes and a couple of BRT routes to MRU thrown in.

There are some public consultation open houses upcoming in June that will allow for input on the changes. Dates are as follows:

For residents west of Sarcee Trail:

Wednesday, June 1 from 5:00-8:30 p.m.
Strathcona Community Association
277 Strathcona Drive SW Upstairs Loft


For residents east of Sarcee Trail:

Thursday, June 9 from 5:00-8:30 p.m.
Glenbrook Community Association
3524 – 45 Street SW Main Hall


For Beltline residents:

Thursday, June 16 from 5:00-8:30 p.m.
South Calgary Community Association
3130 – 16 Street SW Main Hall


For Lakeview residents:

Thursday, June 23 from 5:00-8:30 p.m.
Lakeview Community Association
6110 – 34 Street SW Main Hall

[Bassic Lab]

Originally Posted by freeweed

I think you completely misunderstand me. I'm not a frequent PnR user and never will be. If I chose to, I could afford a reserved spot without batting an eye. I'm not looking for a free lunch, I'm looking for the best utilization of our public resources.

I'm generally against is taking public infrastructure and applying "pure supply and demand economics" to it. Not only does that defeat the purpose of it being *public*, but it actively discourages some from using it. I was against the original PnR fee from day one because it discourages transit use. Plenty of people reverted to driving to work once it came in.

And think about it - you could apply the "supply and demand" argument to the feeder buses too. Why shouldn't I pay more as a transit user when I take a feeder bus, vs. a person who can walk to the LRT station? Also, for feeder buses with less demand, we could save money by completely eliminating them. The counter-argument is that having the feeder buses available encourages transit use, which is kinda the entire point of a mass transit system. Not just to make it cozier for those that can afford it.

Here's another one - would you support a higher fare train if you were guaranteed a seat? Say every 2nd or 3rd train was a "1st class" car, where standing was not allowed? I know damned well that plenty of Calgarians would pay for this, not getting a seat is one of the major complaints about the C-Train. Sure, there would be a ton of wasted capacity on these trains, just like there are in the PnR lots today, but people paid for it so it's OK, right? It's just supply and demand, after all. Hell, from a pure economics perspective you could double the cost of a transit fare/pass and most folks who park at Crowfoot could easily afford it. But does that make it right?

CT saw an easy cash grab with a captive audience and took it. It amazes me that people think this is a good thing, but from a purely selfish perspective I can see how it works out well for specific individuals. However I have a hard time believing that 50% of LRT riders in the NW need a reserved spot. It's not like thousands of people weren't taking the LRT before the fees came in. They're only paying it because they're worried about not getting a spot.

The feeder busses are not typically a scarce resource. They are not simply a free shuttle service to the LRT for people that could otherwise drive. They are also a social service for those that cannot drive. Now if feeder busses were routinely full so that only the first few people to show could benefit it would be different but that is not the case. The city can and should provide enough bus capacity to move everyone who wishes to be moved on a specific route. In actuality, the more people who desire the service, the more cost effective it is for the city. The city cannot nor should provide enough parking spaces for everyone that could conceivably desire one.

It is the same difference as that which applies to public subsidies for a museum versus a pro sports arena. I have never been in a situation where I must outbid someone else for the opportunity to visit the Glenbow. It is a very different situation when I desire to see the Flames play. Then I am explicitly forced to outbid everyone else who wishes to see them. With free park and rides we are in a position where there is a limited supply that cannot hope to meet demand. Everyone who gets a spot must outbid those who desire one but cannot have one. When they are free, the bidding is in the form of arriving earlier in the morning. That is in no way fairer than placing a monetary cost on the bidding. With both options being equally fair the only difference is whether or not the city can benefit from providing those spots. I think it is far preferable to have the city, as in all taxpayers and citizens, benefit as opposed to the other option.

[freeweed]

Originally Posted by Bassic Lab

With free park and rides we are in a position where there is a limited supply that cannot hope to meet demand.

Except we were meeting demand. Back when the lots were originally free, I'd hit up the PnR lots in the NW every few weeks. I never once couldn't find a spot, regardless of time of year, day of week, or when I left. Yes, I may have had to walk from the back of the lot, and yes, I may have had to drive to another station to get a spot, but I always found a spot.

This whole issue smacks of artificially induced demand - ever since the original fee was introduced, people have become convinced that these spots are some sort of valuable commodity. And it's turning into a vicious positive feedback loop where everyone is now convinced that these spots have always been so much in demand, that we MUST charge for 50% of them or the 4th horseman will arrive or something.

As more and more spots become reserved, there are fewer and fewer spots available for everyone else - which just forces these people to reserve a spot. Hmm, I wonder what the end state of that is?

Portland has at least one massive parkade for its LRT PnR, and it's completely free. THAT is how you do PnR. Not acres of empty asphalt every day.

Anyway, as I've said all along this really doesn't affect me. But I'm hearing more and more of people driving downtown again. The parking isn't even that expensive anymore - some lots appear to be pushing towards $10/day.

[5seconds]

Regarding the new/revised but routes from the West LRT: I am amazed that the city would have the only 2 regular buses to Lakeview run almost the exact same route. Both start at Chinook, both cut through Lakeview, and both turn around in the Mount Royal University area. The Garrison Green section seems to be the only real difference.

If they were going to kill the 18 going downtown (which is a mistake IMO) then at least have it start at a different LRT station, like Westbrook or Sirocco.

Apart from the Hospital access, this is such a step backwards for the community.

[Koolfire]

Originally Posted by 5seconds

If they were going to kill the 18 going downtown (which is a mistake IMO) then at least have it start at a different LRT station, like Westbrook or Sirocco.

Current 18 looks like it's replaced by the 301. So it looks like it will be an improvement with larger buses.

[5seconds]

Originally Posted by Koolfire

Current 18 looks like it's replaced by the 301. So it looks like it will be an improvement with larger buses.

The size of the buses was never a problem, and the 301 doesn't (appear) go into Lakeview (nor should it, really), so not that much of an improvement at all.

[jeffwhit]

So does anyone know wtf happened on 7th ave (CPS "Situation") that brought the system to a halt for a few hours? I swear, every time I get lazy and decide to catch the 405/201 to work, shit goes awry.

[You Need A Thneed]

Originally Posted by jeffwhit

So does anyone know wtf happened on 7th ave (CPS "Situation") that brought the system to a halt for a few hours? I swear, every time I get lazy and decide to catch the 405/201 to work, shit goes awry.

http://www.calgaryherald.com/news/Fire+closes+Train+tunnel+downtown+Calgary/4782323/story.html

[jeffwhit]

If you're going to set yourself on fire, why would it possibly require the use of a c-train tunnel?

[Ramsayfarian]

Originally Posted by jeffwhit

If you're going to set yourself on fire, why would it possibly require the use of a c-train tunnel?

His plan was probably to light himself on fire then throw himself under the train but his timing was a bit off. One probably doesn't get a lot of rehearsal time for something like that. I can't imagine wanting to end it that bad.

[Policy Wonk]

Originally Posted by Policy Wonk

How many of you would be interested in a hardhat and boots "walking tour" of the West LRT as far as Sunalta Station?

I had to pass on the first possible date due to attending a graduation that day, I will advise if another date is presented.

[ksnaden]

North Central LRT Open House

http://www.calgarytransit.com/html/north_central_lrt_oh_2011.html

Come and join the conversation with Calgary Transit and other stakeholders about planning for the future route of the North Central LRT. Calgary Transit wants to hear everyone’s ideas on where we should be planning to build the sixth leg of Calgary LRT system, what things we should consider when planning this route, the types of LRT vehicles that will run on the line and station concepts. Input from these sessions will help us determine where to focus our planning to fine tune the future alignment options.

Wednesday May 25, 2011(4pm – 8pm)
Location: Cardel Place
11950 Country Village Link NE (lobby area)

Thursday May 26, 2011 (4pm – 8pm)
Location: Winston Heights Community Association
520-27 Ave NE (main hall)

Saturday May 28, 2011 (10am – 2pm)
Location: Huntington Hills Community Association
520-78 Ave NW (main hall)

[freeweed]

Originally Posted by jeffwhit

If you're going to set yourself on fire, why would it possibly require the use of a c-train tunnel?

People who self-immolate are generally not playing with a full deck of cards.

[93JC]

Originally Posted by 5seconds

If they were going to kill the 18 going downtown (which is a mistake IMO) then at least have it start at a different LRT station, like Westbrook or Sirocco.

Apart from the Hospital access, this is such a step backwards for the community.

It totally sucks for me. I live in North Glenmore, and by the looks of it all of my possible routes to downtown are being nuked save for the 63 Lakeview express (which runs very infrequently)

The 7 won't go to the west side of downtown anymore, which means I'd have to take it downtown and walk or catch a train. The 18 won't go north of MRU. The 107 won't go by North Glenmore at all anymore.

It looks like I'd have to walk to 50th Ave and catch a #13 or catch a BRT bus to Westbrook Station.

Absolutely brutal for the community. I'd probably drive downtown if this plan went through. Parking is only $10-11 for the day and driving is 2-3 times faster as it is, let alone the extra walking or transfers I'd have to make. $5-7 per day in transportation costs over taking the bus would be well worth it, given the extra hour (at least!) I'd save in commute time.

[DizzyEdge]

wrong forum

[freeweed]

Anyone know why they've completely removed the fencing at Crowfoot station? I'm talking about the fence that separates the parking lots from Scenic Acres. Did residents finally accept public transit into their hearts? Will they finally be able to actually drive to the Park and Ride without burning 10L of gas?

[Cage]

Don;t know for 100% for sure, but I think the Crowfoot Fence is being replaced by a chain link fence.

The original solid panel fence was susceptable to vandalism and repaired last summer. At the time (last year) the community association was advised that if vandalism continued the fence would be replaced with an all metal chain link fence. The RFP for fence work went out in February 2011 per AB purchasing connection.

[freeweed]

Weird. A chain link fence does nothing to block noise or optics. Why even bother with a fence in the first place?

[5seconds]

Originally Posted by freeweed

Weird. A chain link fence does nothing to block noise or optics. Why even bother with a fence in the first place?

The only reason would be to deter foot traffic. Are they worried about out-of-towners parking in the neighbourhood and then walking to the station?

I saw that the city put up chainlink fence in the median between the directions of Glenmore in the new 37th street intersection. I couldn't figure it out until I realised they were trying to dissuade people from running across Glenmore rather than take the new (well out-of-the-way) bridge.