[Halifax] Nova Centre | 65-58-58 m | 16-15-14 fl | Completed

[someone123]

I wonder if they will announce details about any of the tenants on Thursday, or release new renderings?

In Allnovascotia tonight there's an article about the HRM memorandum approval. In it they mention that the plan for the towers remains the same and that construction is supposed to start by this fall. Presumably that means that excavation will not begin for a few months.

[someone123]

Here's a nice photo of Prince Street, taken by Jemsabell on flickr.

This is one of my favourite streetscapes in Halifax because of the older buildings, the hill, and the Citadel at the top. I think the Nova Centre buildings will add a lot to this scene:


Source

[someone123]

Here's an article on the presentation from today: http://thechronicleherald.ca/metro/116353-ramia-adds-office-tower-to-nova-centre-plans

The news is very positive. Excavation is set to begin in late August. There will be a short public consultation phase and construction will begin in early 2013 (I guess excavation will take a while since this is a large site).

One of the improvements already made is that the hotel will front onto Grafton and there will be two office towers on Argyle Street. It makes a lot of sense to move the hotel component away from the noisy Argyle Street strip.

Here's a link to the consultation website: http://buildyourcentre.ca/

[halifaxboyns]

The gap in that picture will fill in nicely. It will be an interesting mix of old and new.

Two office towers is very exciting! Considering the number of older office buildings in downtown - I wonder if we'll see those convert into something else (perhaps lofts or hotels)?

My only worry with the engagement is how much of it is going to be hijacked with the issue of 'we don't want this white elephant' BS. Hopefully, if they are smart - the nip that in the bud right at the beginning. That is issue is dealt with - this is going foward. Now, what do you want to see. I had engagement where the 'we don't want it' was a big factor and we were constantly fighting that...it will be hard.

[Halifax Hillbilly]

Why bother having engagement at this point? The major design decisions have been made. This should have been done years ago, before the site was chosen.

The big question I have is what will they be doing at street level? This will make or break the project in my mind. Argyle is one of the few interesting and vibrant streets in the city. Let's get this right for a change. The Argyle street presence in particular has to be inviting, interesting and generate lots of foot traffic.

[someone123]

Originally Posted by Halifax Hillbilly

The big question I have is what will they be doing at street level?

I think the consultation is more a concession to improve the optics of the project than anything else at this point, but streetscapes are one area where minor changes (from the perspective of the builder) can have a huge impact. In particular the success of the Grafton Street canopy area will depend a lot on how open it looks, how good the lighting is, etc.

And yeah, I hope things are structured properly so this is focused on finding the best design possible. The last thing we need is yet another rehash of whether or not people agree with a project that has already been approved.

[Keith P.]

Originally Posted by halifaxboyns

My only worry with the engagement is how much of it is going to be hijacked with the issue of 'we don't want this white elephant' BS.

During the event today Bousquet was doing his live-tweeting schtick and the distortion and negativity was something to see. He is calling it "The Monorail" and disparaged all and sundry who were there, especially Ramia, whom he referred to as a dining-room set salesman. What's worse is that some of his media cronies who were there were chiming in along the same lines as well. There is no shortage of negativity here among some of the media in this town. Shameful.

[someone123]

There is a banner up on the Nova Centre lot:


http://twitter.com/RemoZaccagna/status/223392800992018432

The Herald article confirmed that excavation will take 8 months. It will be quite a large construction site.

[Jstaleness]

Much better than the "art" that was there a few months ago.

[SekishikiMeikaiHa]

Someone beat me to posting the banner. Well, I am going to post mine anyway

[spaustin]

Originally Posted by Halifax Hillbilly

Why bother having engagement at this point? The major design decisions have been made. This should have been done years ago, before the site was chosen.

I agree completely. Consultation at this point is empty window dressing. What's the city going to do at the end of the consultation? Say no if people don't like the design. Whatever Rank wants to do they can at this point since everyone is committed so it feels like a waste of time. I wait with anticipation to see how many people turn out to the sessions outside of Halifax. I'm sure the people of Sydney will eagerly offer up design suggestions for a building in another city.

[Waye Mason]

Originally Posted by spaustin

I agree completely. Consultation at this point is empty window dressing. What's the city going to do at the end of the consultation? Say no if people don't like the design. Whatever Rank wants to do they can at this point since everyone is committed so it feels like a waste of time. I wait with anticipation to see how many people turn out to the sessions outside of Halifax. I'm sure the people of Sydney will eagerly offer up design suggestions for a building in another city.

It is an interesting move. This site is under HRMbD which means they can throw together the plan, send it to HRM staff, and the only public input is an information session, no public meeting. Maybe they want to forestall complaints about the final design by being able to say "1000 people participated".

I am trying to write a timeline but I don't know enough, is Ramia going to hold off on submitting anything to the city until January 2013? So design review and staff review and HRMbD approval all happens by March/April 2013?

Moving the hotel is great, hopefully the parking entrance moved with it. The biggest issue I have at this point is the parking garage entrance on Argyle basically sinks the Argyle street plan. Also, the original plan was bus parking on Argyle for the CC and hotel. This would be a negative thing for the entertainment district. Ideally the first floor facing Argyle will be commercial space and we will see restaurants, bars, and patios facing the newly renovated pedestrian focused Argyle street.

[fenwick16]

Originally Posted by Waye Mason

Moving the hotel is great, hopefully the parking entrance moved with it. The biggest issue I have at this point is the parking garage entrance on Argyle basically sinks the Argyle street plan. Also, the original plan was bus parking on Argyle for the CC and hotel. This would be a negative thing for the entertainment district. Ideally the first floor facing Argyle will be commercial space and we will see restaurants, bars, and patios facing the newly renovated pedestrian focused Argyle street.

Another advantage to changing the design is that the very wide hotel building will now be two narrower towers (office towers). The new design will be more respective of the HRM_by_Design bylaws. I believe the following sections of the HRM_by_Design manual apply to that precinct (precinct 6): (source: http://www.halifax.ca/capitaldistrict/documents/DHLUBandDesignManual.pdf).


________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
High-Rise Buildings
(7) Any portion of a high-rise building above a height of 33.5 metres shall be setback 11.5 metres from interior lot lines. (doesn't apply, since there are no interior lot lines)
(8) Any portion of a high-rise building above a height of 33.5 metres shall be separated a minimum of 17 metres between the high-rise portion of other buildings or the same building on the same lot, where one of the high-rise buildings is used for commercial purposes.
(9) Any portion of a high-rise building above a height of 33.5 metres shall be a minimum of 23 metres between the high-rise portion of other buildings or the same building on the same lot, where both of the high-rise buildings are used for residential purposes. (doesn't apply, since the towers aren't residential)
(10) Any portion of a building above a height of 33.5 metres shall be a maximum width of 38 metres and a maximum depth of 38 metres.
(11) Notwithstanding subsection (10) any portion of a building above a height of 33.5 metres located in the Central Blocks, as identified on Map 8, shall be a maximum width of 38 metres and a maximum depth of 27.5 metres. (doesn't apply, since the Nova Centre isn't part of the Central Blocks precinct

________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________


In addition to being more respective of the HRM_by_Design bylaws, it will allow more light on Argyle Street by breaking up the massive wall that the previous hotel design would have created.

Thumbs up to Joe Ramia for showing confidence in the HRM by proceeding with this project and doing all he can to adhere to the HRM_by_Design manual (even through the previous design was already permitted as an exception in the manual).

I think that the HRM has been blessed by the presence of several developers who really care about the city and have actively become involved in civic affairs (as members of various boards and respecting the heritage nature of the city).

[W.Sobchak]

I only hope that this doesn't turn into another propaganda machine, ie Ships Start Here. That was one of the biggest wastes of money, our too clever by half, NDP government have concocted.

Nobody should be bragging about they're part in this outside of Mr. Ramia. It was rather silly how long it took to get to this project finally in motion.

[fenwick16]

Originally Posted by W.Sobchak

I only hope that this doesn't turn into another propaganda machine, ie Ships Start Here. That was one of the biggest wastes of money, our too clever by half, NDP government have concocted.

Nobody should be bragging about they're part in this outside of Mr. Ramia. It was rather silly how long it took to get to this project finally in motion.

I have to agree. The change in provincial government probably delayed this by almost 3 years. ex-Premier Rodney MacDonald appeared ready to finance it back in May 2009 - http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showthread.php?t=148136&page=10. Because of the delay in provincial approval it was delayed further by a federal election.

A larger, more modern convention centre is perfectly suited to Nova Scotia because of the importance of the tourism industry. It never should have taken so longer to reach this point.

[scooby074]

Im not a naysayer... but i am a bit of a realist.

Dont care about blocking view plains. Nor do I care about the endangered Chronicle Turtle that has established a home on the old News ground () Lets fire up the bulldozers!

But, I am concerned if a convention center is the best use of space in these modern times.

I like the office space.. Hotels.. Sure!!! Perfect.

There was an article in the Herald within the last couple days where an "expert" in Texas was saying that we have a severe over capacity in new convention space, and the Halifax centre will just add to it. I believe he mentioned new, large spaces in Niagara, Ottawa, Vancouver, Winnipeg and likely other places I forgot. This is the same "expert" who has been preaching this idea for a while.

Looking past the joy a new development brings, I hope that the centre will be able to generate enough business to sustain itself.

[Keith P.]

Originally Posted by scooby074

There was an article in the Herald within the last couple days where an "expert" in Texas was saying that we have a severe over capacity in new convention space, and the Halifax centre will just add to it. I believe he mentioned new, large spaces in Niagara, Ottawa, Vancouver, Winnipeg and likely other places I forgot. This is the same "expert" who has been preaching this idea for a while.

That's Col. Heywood Saunders, the anti-convention center pundit. The STV/Heritage nimrods brought him in to say how this was the worst thing ever.

I have no idea if it is or isn't. What I do know is that the existing WTCC is hopelessly undersized and obsolete and can no longer attract even regional events. That alone means a new facility should do some business that we currently cannot get.

There is no shortage of negative opinions on any idea in these parts. That doesn't mean they are right.

The same holds true with this obsession with getting the "best" proposal for any site. Up until recently we needed to be happy if we got any proposal at all. Not to say we should allow anything to go anywhere, but this isn't a perfect world and we cannot expect to get whatever some planner thinks is ideal every time. Stuff has a way of working itself out over time.

[ILoveHalifax]

Whether or not the convention business is on the rise or decline, people all over Canada want to come to Halifax. We have a very beautiful city with lots to see and do. People have a great time here.
I am confident that with the proper facilities we will be first choice for lots of convention planners.

[scooby074]

Absolutely the WTCC is past its prime.

And Halifax is probably my favourite place in Canada, so its not a slam at that. Most visitors love the city as well.

It's more a question of whether the Trade Show industry is expanding or contracting. I think with modern technology and corporate belt tightening, the "destination" trade show industry is in decline.

How many centres in the states are giving away (or severely reducing) rental fees in order to attract conventions in the hopes that the visitors will drop some cash in the community. How can Halifax compete with "free"?

When the new centre is finished, what are the plans for the existing WTCC?

[FuzzyWuz]

Originally Posted by scooby074

There was an article in the Herald within the last couple days where an "expert" in Texas was saying that we have a severe over capacity in new convention space, and the Halifax centre will just add to it. I believe he mentioned new, large spaces in Niagara, Ottawa, Vancouver, Winnipeg and likely other places I forgot. This is the same "expert" who has been preaching this idea for a while.

Looking past the joy a new development brings, I hope that the centre will be able to generate enough business to sustain itself.

Heywood Sanders appears to be an expert convention center opposer, whatever else he is qualified to call himself. And he has used as evidence of declining business the fact that various mega-centers didn't do the business they hoped to do. Halifax is not trying to compete with Vegas or any such super convention city. We are trying to make sure that we have a convention center that is the right size for the urban center.