YVR Airport & Sea Island Developments Discussion

[trofirhen]

Wonderful news about reinstating flights to Haneida.
Now, what about Paris? Surely there's a market. If there's one in Seattle (and there is) there is surely one here.
Charles de Gaulle Airport or Orly Airport? I'll settle for either.

[Johnny Aussie]

I was surprised that the new Haneda flights aren't just a transfer from Narita.

AC double daily to Tokyo from YVR, I wonder how long that will last!

My question is, where are they pulling this 763 from?

[trofirhen]

I know I'm hung up on Paris, and everyone else knows it, too ...... but why this recurrent obsession with Japan, Japan, Japan ???? Great place, but the whole Vancouver - Japan route dominates this thread. It's inexplicable to me.

[nova9]

Originally Posted by trofirhen

I know I'm hung up on Paris, and everyone else knows it, too ...... but why this recurrent obsession with Japan, Japan, Japan ???? Great place, but the whole Vancouver - Japan route dominates this thread. It's inexplicable to me.

then you need to come back to vancouver and see how the demographics of vancouver have changed.

i myself prefer paris. but among my friends (all asian), i am the only one that has never travelled to tokyo. all my other friends like travelling to asia and show little interest in europe where as i am the opposite.

[trofirhen]

Originally Posted by nova9

then you need to come back to vancouver and see how the demographics of vancouver have changed.

i myself prefer paris. but among my friends (all asian), i am the only one that has never travelled to tokyo. all my other friends like travelling to asia and show little interest in europe where as i am the opposite.

I know Vancouver is about half Asian now, although not all Japanese, (Korean, Chinese, Pakistani, Indian, Sri Lankan, Indonesian) . . .but looking at another aspect, there are several daily flights to London, Frankfurt and Amsterdam. But these are the ONLY European cities with year-round direct service.

So there IS quite a demand for European travel destinations, too. I just wish they'd add Paris to the roster, that's all.
A lot of people go there from Vancouver, but outside the summer peak, they have to change planes, usually in Toronto, or elsewhere. Speaking to a YVR marketing representative, (of Chinese origin, by the way) he said YVR is very anxious to get a year-round Paris nonstop. Also, in a recent survey of desired destinations, Paris topped the list by far. Twice the percentage of any other city.

It's just a case of the Feds hogging things, although many will say "NO-O-O, it's lack of market demand."
Air France got sick of being denied permission (before Open Skies was signed) and went to Seattle instead, so they're unlikely to come here now. Too bad.

[MalcolmTucker]

Air France already flies to YVR through its subsidiary KLM. I am sure that if it feels the market can support it, it will put in the flight once open skies is finalized. Last thing they would want is Air Canada or Lufthansa starting a direct flight.

Only thing I would worry about is yield - is there enough air cargo and business class passengers?

[whatnext]

Originally Posted by trofirhen

I know I'm hung up on Paris, and everyone else knows it, too ...... but why this recurrent obsession with Japan, Japan, Japan ???? Great place, but the whole Vancouver - Japan route dominates this thread. It's inexplicable to me.

Probably because even in a bad year Japan sends 5 times the amount of tourists to BC as France does.
http://www.tca.gov.bc.ca/research/Indust..._Visitor_Arrivals_December_2009.sflb.pdf

[Hourglass]

Not to mention the business angle as well as the fact that Tokyo is the location of a Star Alliance hub

The timing of the flights seem a bit inconvenient to me (arrive at Haneda at 2300? Good for businesspeople, I suppose -- land, get some shuteye, then meetings next day) but still gotta love the return leg -- a flight where you land in Vancouver 8 hours earlier than you leave Tokyo - at least in local time.

[SpongeG]

part of the pacific rim here in vancouver - not the atlantic rim

[Yume-sama]

The landing times at Haneda are just plain stupid. I would never choose to take it over a flight to Narita, at those times. Why pay for a nights hotel if you arrive at 11PM? I can see this being OK for Japanese residents, some of them, but a large portion of the passengers on the plane are for people connecting outside of Japan, too... and by 11PM it is too late for this.

[whatnext]

Originally Posted by Yume-sama

The landing times at Haneda are just plain stupid. I would never choose to take it over a flight to Narita, at those times. Why pay for a nights hotel if you arrive at 11PM? I can see this being OK for Japanese residents, some of them, but a large portion of the passengers on the plane are for people connecting outside of Japan, too... and by 11PM it is too late for this.

Haneda has assigned those lousy time slots.

[Hourglass]

Yes, from what I understand, slot availability was limited, hence these departure/arrival times. Yume is right though, I think the majority of passengers on this flight will terminate in Tokyo.

Great to see new flights from AC in Vancouver. I'm interested to see how long the double-daily frequencies last.

[usog]

Ugh...I don't see the point. Wasn't one of the benefits of flying direct to haneda easier transfers to domestic flights within Japan? I understand the slots given to all the North American routes in general were terrible but doesn't it defeat the purpose? Asides from being closer to Tokyo in general and all.

[trofirhen]

Originally Posted by Sir.Humphrey.Appleby

Air France already flies to YVR through its subsidiary KLM. I am sure that if it feels the market can support it, it will put in the flight once open skies is finalized. Last thing they would want is Air Canada or Lufthansa starting a direct flight.

Only thing I would worry about is yield - is there enough air cargo and business class passengers?

Originally Posted by whatnext

Probably because even in a bad year Japan sends 5 times the amount of tourists to BC as France does.
http://www.tca.gov.bc.ca/research/Indust..._Visitor_Arrivals_December_2009.sflb.pdf

Originally Posted by Hourglass

Not to mention the business angle as well as the fact that Tokyo is the location of a Star Alliance hub

The timing of the flights seem a bit inconvenient to me (arrive at Haneda at 2300? Good for businesspeople, I suppose -- land, get some shuteye, then meetings next day) but still gotta love the return leg -- a flight where you land in Vancouver 8 hours earlier than you leave Tokyo - at least in local time.

Originally Posted by SpongeG

part of the pacific rim here in vancouver - not the atlantic rim

Well stated. Now I understand better. Thank you all

[Yume-sama]

Originally Posted by whatnext

Haneda has assigned those lousy time slots.

I know, but it is quite lousy. This could just be a "foot in the door" type thing, though. Haneda has massively expanded and nearly doubled its capacity, from 285,000 movements to 400,000 movements per year, for 2010. I'm sure should a route prove popular, the times could be re-adjusted to be better. They have built an entire new International terminal due to open in October.

It would be kind of funny if it is only operational between 11PM - 7AM

[Gordon]

As far as the schedule the 11:30 arrival time that may not be a great time to arrive, buth there are a nuberof flights from YVR to Asia that depart between 2AM & 3:30AM arriving between 6AM & 8AM tvarious ponts in Asia at least withthe late night arrival time you can get a decent sleep & be fresh for business the next day.

[twoNeurons]

Actually, there is a transfer to Singapore which is perfectly timed.

These times will be great for Japanese travellers to Canada. Go to the airport late night after work, be in Vancouver before suppertime. It will be good for a return leg of a flight. You can spend the whole day in Tokyo before your flight. Japan is losing a lot of Japanese international passengers who are choosing to transfer out of Incheon (Seoul). Incheon is becoming the hub for Japanese international flights. One of the reasons cited is that Japan doesn't really have a hub airport.

People don't want to do the Haneda-Narita transfer.

Kansai terminal was supposed to be a hub for the Kobe/Kyoto/Osaka area, but Kobe built an airport later and they kept Itami in Northern Osaka open.

Haneda has recently opened new routes in Asia. China, Singapore, Korea and Hawaii are all big destinations. In addition, Haneda serves the closer city airports in these places.

They want to make Haneda a 24-hour hub airport.

That's why I suspect they chose those times for landing spots. They know airlines want to fly to Haneda, but they don't want people to "switch" to Haneda. They want to increase traffic. So, they provide inconvenient timeslots into Haneda (landing slots are more expensive, too). My guess is that they'll open up the time window in a year or two. At that time, airlines who were "in" at the beginning will likely get first dibs at better time slots.

In the meantime, they may have increased passengers.

Think about it. Air Canada has to fill twice as many spots. To do that, they're going to have to run promotions or offer seat sales or something to fill those planes.

They won't drop their Narita flights.

It appears that they took a calculated risk with Haneda that it was desireable enough to offer crappy times.

As for why Japan is always talked about over Paris, I dunno... it's closer? Paris is the world's most visited city, but Japan offers a lot of connections to a lot of destinations in Asia.

About the only thing that this YVR-HND flight offers is a nice choice on the return leg.

[satishreddy]

Regarding the timing of the flights, I believe North American airlines are restricted to the late night/early morning slots. You can find that Delta and American have scheduled flights arriving/departing at those times as well. I am not sure about the rules for European and Asian airlines.

[twoNeurons]

Originally Posted by satishreddy

Regarding the timing of the flights, I believe North American airlines are restricted to the late night/early morning slots. You can find that Delta and American have scheduled flights arriving/departing at those times as well. I am not sure about the rules for European and Asian airlines.

If I recall correctly, any flight longer than the longest domestic flight ( ~2000km to Okinawa I think ) is subject to the 10PM-7AM flight times. Daytime will focus on East Asia. Nighttime will focus on Americas, Europe and Southeast Asia.

New Terminal looks nice:

• Video Link

[trofirhen]

Here is some information about the upcoming World Routes Forum at YVR that may or may not be interesting.

http://www.routesonline.com/airports/2539/vancouver-international-airport-yvr/