Winnipeg - Of Interest

[Wolf13]

Originally Posted by esquire

I did not find it that way at all. Obviously they reflected Torstar's editorial stance, but I would hardly call it "fringe".

That said, and I know this is probably an unpopular opinion, but I don't think the loss of the Metro is much of a loss to the Winnipeg news media. I mean, I hate to see anyone lose their job and I wish the paper had stayed in business for that reason alone, but let's face it... a couple of tiny local stories, a few wire stories and a Torstar article or two a day did not provide a whole lot of substance.

If this helps to make the Sun sustainable over the longer term then it might be for the better... even the Sun, in its emaciated current form, still has something resembling an actual newsroom left.




CV strikes me as an organization that could be folded into something like EDW. CV started out with a very narrow mandate (sale of surplus City properties), did a great job with that, but then kind of branched out into a bunch of other things and even did some lasting damage (North Main comes to mind) along the way to a few successes. I think redefining that organization's focus again could be a good idea.

I guess you're not wrong... the slightly further left is quite normal now. Let's just say I considered Metro very narrow-minded.

I'd agree with the rest of your post also.

[vid]

Did Metro actually have local content in it? The Sun is a shit paper run by shit people but at least it had local news in it.

There's really no need for printed paper anymore, it's just a waste of resources. It would literally be cheaper on an annual basis for them to just give the few thousand olds who still use paper copies a free Kindle. When they die they can pass it on to the next old.

When you see the newspaper guy stopping by Macs at 4am to take away 12 old papers and replace them with 14 new ones you know the business model is doomed.

[GarryEllice]

Originally Posted by vid

Did Metro actually have local content in it? The Sun is a shit paper run by shit people but at least it had local news in it.

There's really no need for printed paper anymore, it's just a waste of resources. It would literally be cheaper on an annual basis for them to just give the few thousand olds who still use paper copies a free Kindle. When they die they can pass it on to the next old.

When you see the newspaper guy stopping by Macs at 4am to take away 12 old papers and replace them with 14 new ones you know the business model is doomed.

There was local news in Metro, though not of very high quality. My favourite was when they referred to Todd Dube of Wise Up Winnipeg as a "traffic safety advocate."
Still, the paper was quite popular. The boxes along Graham Avenue would usually be completely empty by 9am.

[esquire]

Metro had a couple of local reporters so there were some short local stories like maybe three or four a day, but obviously it was pretty superficial stuff... mainly coverage driven by press releases. Pretty much the same kind of thing you'd expect from one of the TV stations with a newsroom run on a shoestring, like Global TV.

I occasionally picked it up to read when riding the bus or grabbing lunch at a food court by myself, but it clearly had a following because you'd see a lot of copies get distributed and as GarryEllice said, the boxes would empty out... a lot of the ads were oriented to new Canadians, I think that demographic might be the one that ends up missing Metro the most.

[rrskylar]

Originally Posted by GarryEllice

There was local news in Metro, though not of very high quality. My favourite was when they referred to Todd Dube of Wise Up Winnipeg as a "traffic safety advocate."
Still, the paper was quite popular. The boxes along Graham Avenue would usually be completely empty by 9am.

But hey it’s Winnipeg where free is good quality not so much....

Maybe more people who live downtown have birds...

[esquire]

Originally Posted by rrskylar

But hey it’s Winnipeg where free is good quality not so much....

Maybe more people who live downtown have birds...

I don't think Metro ever aspired to win Pulitzer prizes... it's just something for transit commuters to look at to pass the time. Although to vid's point, I guess Metro's function in that way has been superseded by smartphones. It started up in Winnipeg around, oh, maybe 2010 or 2011, at a time when smartphones were still a new and somewhat uncommon thing.

[Wolf13]

Originally Posted by vid

Did Metro actually have local content in it? The Sun is a shit paper run by shit people but at least it had local news in it.

There's really no need for printed paper anymore, it's just a waste of resources. It would literally be cheaper on an annual basis for them to just give the few thousand olds who still use paper copies a free Kindle. When they die they can pass it on to the next old.

When you see the newspaper guy stopping by Macs at 4am to take away 12 old papers and replace them with 14 new ones you know the business model is doomed.

While it isn't the globe and mail nor national post, what's shit about it? Yeah they whine too much, but let me guess, because it was conservative? lol.

Brodbeck annoys me too and occasionally they were shortsighted on money matters, but I like the Sun because they have the balls to be upset about a lot of things that Canada gives undeserved free passes.

But yes, print media is dying. It's sad.

[esquire]

^ I also think the Sun is a pretty shitty newspaper, mainly because the newsroom is so tiny that it can barely pump out any original stories anymore. There really isn't much to it these days... it's about as barebones as a daily urban newspaper gets.

That said, it's probably a small miracle that it remains in business considering that it's the number 2 newspaper in a market where even the leader has been utterly decimated over the past decade.

[vid]

Originally Posted by Wolf13

While it isn't the globe and mail nor national post, what's shit about it? Yeah they whine too much, but let me guess, because it was conservative? lol.

No, because it's sensationalist. It's just the unprofessional tone they use not just in editorials but news as well, it's off putting. But that's why it was given away for free, I guess. I don't have a problem with conservative viewpoints, I only ask that they be put forward in an intelligent and reasonable tone, and the Sun doesn't provide that. It's about as professional as the average post in this discussion forum.

Perhaps the issue here is that we're referring to it as a "newspaper". Because while it might still be paper, there isn't much in the way of "news" to it.

Originally Posted by Wolf13

I like the Sun because they have the balls to be upset about a lot of things that Canada gives undeserved free passes.

But they also ignore some things that Canada gives underserved free passes, like anti-Muslim hate crimes, native issues and the environment.

But when you're catering to a market that doesn't give a shit about those things, it doesn't make money to talk about it. That's one of the downsides of having journalism operate within the confines of private enterprise. Journalists don't get to investigate what they want. They have to investigate what sells.

Originally Posted by Wolf13

But yes, print media is dying. It's sad.

The only thing sad about it is that they utterly, completely failed at capitalism. They had a subscriber network, they had contact databases, they had material, they had ad revenue. They just made so many wrong decisions on how to operate their businesses.

That's part of the problem with having journalism as a private business in the first place. It's subject to the whims of the market, and those aren't always very forgiving. Just ask the owners of local TV stations or compact disk manufacturers.

[Wolf13]

Originally Posted by esquire

^ I also think the Sun is a pretty shitty newspaper, mainly because the newsroom is so tiny that it can barely pump out any original stories anymore. There really isn't much to it these days... it's about as barebones as a daily urban newspaper gets.

That said, it's probably a small miracle that it remains in business considering that it's the number 2 newspaper in a market where even the leader has been utterly decimated over the past decade.

Originally Posted by vid

No, because it's sensationalist. It's just the unprofessional tone they use not just in editorials but news as well, it's off putting. But that's why it was given away for free, I guess. I don't have a problem with conservative viewpoints, I only ask that they be put forward in an intelligent and reasonable tone, and the Sun doesn't provide that. It's about as professional as the average post in this discussion forum.

Perhaps the issue here is that we're referring to it as a "newspaper". Because while it might still be paper, there isn't much in the way of "news" to it.



But they also ignore some things that Canada gives underserved free passes, like anti-Muslim hate crimes, native issues and the environment.

But when you're catering to a market that doesn't give a shit about those things, it doesn't make money to talk about it. That's one of the downsides of having journalism operate within the confines of private enterprise. Journalists don't get to investigate what they want. They have to investigate what sells.



The only thing sad about it is that they utterly, completely failed at capitalism. They had a subscriber network, they had contact databases, they had material, they had ad revenue. They just made so many wrong decisions on how to operate their businesses.

That's part of the problem with having journalism as a private business in the first place. It's subject to the whims of the market, and those aren't always very forgiving. Just ask the owners of local TV stations or compact disk manufacturers.

I can agree with all of that.

As far as print dying, I just like holding my paper in my hands, so I do not pity their inability to make sense of a modern marketplace (that's everyone's responsibility), I just pity myself, lol.

[esquire]

^ I'm a physical paper kind of guy myself... I am probably one of the few people under 40 left in this town who pays for daily Free Press delivery.

[LilZebra]

Originally Posted by vid

No, because it's sensationalist. It's just the unprofessional tone they use not just in editorials but news as well, it's off putting. But that's why it was given away for free, I guess. I don't have a problem with conservative viewpoints, I only ask that they be put forward in an intelligent and reasonable tone, and the Sun doesn't provide that. It's about as professional as the average post in this discussion forum.

In the beginning, 37 yrs. ago, The Winnipeg Sun was created out of the "ashes" of the Winnipeg Tribune.

Many Trib staffers moved to the Sun, at nearby 290 Garry St., as soon as it started publishing.

Gene Telpner (sp?) was one of them. He was the Trib's Entertainment columnist. He worked for The Sun for a few years until he retired I guess. But that's just it. By the time he started with the Sun, I thought of Gene as an "old skool" reporter, not in tune with 1980s sensibilities.

One thing I wished for was that the Sun had 125 page Sunday editions on a regular basis, so one could read at leisure, backgrounders to the news, lifestyle pieces, the tv listings the comics. Apart from the Sunday September 12, 1982 edition, they never matched the number of pages. Monday editions of the Sun were 36 pages never more. Even now. Makes me think there's some sort of collusion going on still.

I never could understand how, when the Sun launched, it was mainly Free Press subs. who would call the Sun down and call it "a tabloid with yellow journallism". If you search the microfilms of that time 1980-81 you'll see several letters to the editor in the Sun and in the Freep.

In context, around the same time, were comparisons between Laserdisc and RCA's CED VideoDisc.
At the time Laserdisc (aka Disc-O-Vision) was a new technology in '78. Magnavox hadn't gotten it right. There were several letters published in VIDEO magazine (now Sound & Vision) about the unreliability of Laserdiscs. Wasn't until 1987 or so that LDs were a good medium to watch a movie on. BTW, I'm more a fan of CED.

[buzzg]

The Free Press has all the means to be doing well but they are so bloated with staff and write so much content that is probably not generating extra revenue that they're shooting themselves in the foot. Don't really think if the Sun went away they'd even see much of a spike – the ad rates in the Sun are laughable compared to the WFP.

FP is also so self-righteous and thinks they do god's work. It's so obnoxious. Seems like every other week Bob Cox writes an article in his own newspaper on how important his business is, and how the government should be funneling it money to stay afloat. Completely agree with vid - you failed at capitalism. Sucks to be you.

Many news/media organizations died once digital started dominating. It's not because of the "news" portion - it's the delivery portion and failing to modernize and innovate to meet demands. For every newspaper that died, there's a new modern news organization that has been born on the internet. And many of them are fantastic, and often better than the crap our local papers put out.

[LilZebra]

^^^

We don't have much choice here in the region.

ChrisD.ca is Lefty liberal

Spectator Tribune used to publish articles over 1 yr. ago. Where are they now?

WAM Winnipeg Alternative Media is more of an activist organization than a media outlet. And they're not exactly in tune with digital tech.

[esquire]

Originally Posted by buzzg

The Free Press has all the means to be doing well but they are so bloated with staff and write so much content that is probably not generating extra revenue that they're shooting themselves in the foot. Don't really think if the Sun went away they'd even see much of a spike – the ad rates in the Sun are laughable compared to the WFP.

FP bloated with staff and content?! When was the last time you picked up a paper copy of the Freep? You can barely find any content hidden among the ads.

And when a huge chunk of their building is still available for lease now that the newsroom and other departments have been decimated, you know there is not exactly a surplus of people there:

https://www.winnipegcommercialrealto...LEASE_2017.pdf

[wardlow]

Originally Posted by esquire

FP bloated with staff and content?! When was the last time you picked up a paper copy of the Freep? You can barely find any content hidden among the ads.

I think 'content' in this case doesn't mean 'local news content and analysis on important things going on', but just a bunch of useless drivel from senior staff who refuse to take a buy-out. You're right, their news room is decimated, but Doug Speirs still works there. Gordon Sinclair jr. And don't they still have a full-time TV critic?

[esquire]

^ Oh yeah, if you're talking about the weekly giant op-ed page spread telling us once again why the feds should subsidize newspapers or the Speirs stuff, then yeah, that's garbage.

Most of GSJ's content is pointless but I will give him credit for calling out the WPS when necessary. That takes some stones in a big small town like this.

[Wolf13]

Originally Posted by buzzg

FP is also so self-righteous and thinks they do god's work. It's so obnoxious. Seems like every other week Bob Cox writes an article in his own newspaper on how important his business is, and how the government should be funneling it money to stay afloat. Completely agree with vid - you failed at capitalism. Sucks to be you.

Thiiiiiiiiiissssss

Beyond the entitlement complex as a print outlet, their audacity also extends to their viewpoints on critical matters... horribly condescending. And then they fluff everything up around that content with feel-good nonsense that is often incorrect.

Originally Posted by wardlow

You're right, their news room is decimated, but Doug Speirs still works there. Gordon Sinclair jr. And don't they still have a full-time TV critic?

That's still a job?

Mind you, Dougy and Gordie have jobs.

[buzzg]

Originally Posted by wardlow

I think 'content' in this case doesn't mean 'local news content and analysis on important things going on', but just a bunch of useless drivel from senior staff who refuse to take a buy-out. You're right, their news room is decimated, but Doug Speirs still works there. Gordon Sinclair jr. And don't they still have a full-time TV critic?

Exactly.

Originally Posted by esquire

^ Oh yeah, if you're talking about the weekly giant op-ed page spread telling us once again why the feds should subsidize newspapers or the Speirs stuff, then yeah, that's garbage.

Most of GSJ's content is pointless but I will give him credit for calling out the WPS when necessary. That takes some stones in a big small town like this.

Yup.

They're essentially paying massive salaries for tenured staff to be bloggers. Except, because of the internet and the proliferation of blogs and modern media outlets, people now can actually choose to follow and read writers they like, and aren't subject to read the crap that some of these mentioned people put out.

They're still paying Miss Lonelyhearts for god's sake – there's chatbots for that now! Lol. There's thousands of people who do her job for fun and for free on Twitter.

[esquire]

^ Are you saying you don't derive value from the daily parade of made-up Miss Lonelyhearts letters?