DENVER | Main Development Thread #6

[Denver]

Originally Posted by TakeFive

And if Gaylord should decide to pursue the previous tentative deal in Arizona, I'm sure that the City of Mesa, DMB Assoc. and Governor Doug Ducey would be delighted to help. After all, Arizona is well known for their fabulous resort hotels that cater to the corporate and convention crowd. Having recently accommodated the highest rated sporting event in history, the door is always open for doing a deal. In fact, Gaylord would have good company as the State and City of Mesa recently closed and passed through the legislature an incentive package for a $2 billion data and command center for Apple in the same area.

Colorado is not Arizona. You do not need a tax payer financed hotel in aurora when you already have a tax payer financed convention center in Denver. It was a ridiculous decision to have tax payers finance two projects that will ultimately compete with one another for revenue.

[TakeFive]

Originally Posted by Denver

Colorado is not Arizona. You do not need a tax payer financed hotel in aurora when you already have a tax payer financed convention center in Denver. It was a ridiculous decision to have tax payers finance two projects that will ultimately compete with one another for revenue.

First of all taxpayers were NOT financing the resort hotel. They were to get a break on (whatever) taxes were a part of the agreement over 30(?) years. Most of the incentive was being provided by Aurora.

So would you say that the 1,200 room JW Marriott Phoenix Desert Ridge Resort & Spa with large conference facilities and a LPGA tournament holding golf course should not have been incentivised because there were plenty of mighty fine resort hotel/spa/conference centers already?

How about the award winning Kierland Commons development where Design, Inc of Denver was part of the design team? It features the top rated Westin Kierland Resort Spa with 752 rooms plus Villas and a 27 hole golf course? No incentives for you, Joe; try another state?

Or how about the Salt River Fields at Talking Stick Resort which is a year around home and Spring Training facility of the Colorado Rockies shared with the Arizona Diamondbacks?

For better or worse, developers have run this state for decades. Still, a $19 billion annual economic engine from convention and tourism business is nothing to sneeze at.

[DUPio]

Lots of activity at the Country Club Towers site...

[DenverPoke]

Originally Posted by DUPio

Lots of activity at the Country Club Towers site...

Excellent, I always forget about that project.

I walked over to Eviva Cherokee today and as mentioned earlier still nothing other than the fence and signage.

TakeFive...I will be coming to Salt River next weekend. Do you have any recommendations for the area? I've really only spent time in and around Glendale.

[TakeFive]

Originally Posted by DenverPoke

Excellent, I always forget about that project.

TakeFive...I will be coming to Salt River next weekend. Do you have any recommendations for the area? I've really only spent time in and around Glendale.

Not specifically but Scottsdale Road is just to the west a bit. There's everything you could want along there. A bit to the south on Scottsdale Road at Camelback is where Old Town Scottsdale (touristy) and Fashion Square and all the nighttime entertainment you could want especially if you like where $30,000 20-something pretty millionaires (we call them) hang.

I can't think of anything along the 101 that would be useful which is odd but it's mostly office/medical/residential. Scottsdale Road does have different price point places to stay although this is entering high season down here. Unless you'd enjoy being in Tempe which is due south along the 101 or Scottsdale Road which becomes Rural Road past or south of the 202. I get lost down there but my kid knows his way around, LOL.

[bobg]

Originally Posted by TakeFive

First of all taxpayers were NOT financing the resort hotel. They were to get a break on (whatever) taxes were a part of the agreement over 30(?) years. Most of the incentive was being provided by Aurora.

They were not financing all of it but Gaylord certainly had the option of some city financing in that agreement. IIRC up to $200 million in bonds that Aurora renewal authority would issue upfront to give to Gaylord, and the taxpayers of Aurora would be on the hook for if the TIF district under-performed.

[TakeFive]

Originally Posted by bobg

They were not financing all of it but Gaylord certainly had the option of some city financing in that agreement. IIRC up to $200 million in bonds that Aurora renewal authority would issue upfront to give to Gaylord, and the taxpayers of Aurora would be on the hook for if the TIF district under-performed.

Ah, OK, wasn't aware of that. I have always ALWAYS been in favor of voter approval on larger stuff like this. But tbh, I didn't pay much attention to the details of what Aurora did. It was their thing; I'm not a resident and I had no particular opinion on the matter. I'd guess that amount might have partly had to do with needed infrastructure improvements but that's just a guess.

But what Aurora chose to do and the modest amount awarded by the state are completely different issues.

[DenvertoLA]

so going back to the construction defects reform bill... if there are developers waiting for the bill to pass to start construction on their projects, wouldn't they flaunt their potential investment and jobs that they would create if this bill passed? I don't see Shea properties or GE Johnson Construction advocating.

[BG918]

Originally Posted by DownhomeDenver

Inside Real Estate news has posted a high res rendering of the hotel in CCN thats under construction now. Looks like your pretty standard building. Nothing exciting.

http://insiderealestatenews.com/2015/02/20/construction-underway-in-ccn/

Lots of activity there this week, finally. Looks like excavation and shoring is in full swing. Another tower crane will soon be up in CCN.

[Denver]

Originally Posted by TakeFive

But what Aurora chose to do and the modest amount awarded by the state are completely different issues.

How is $80 million modest? Especially given that that money is going to be given to a private company.

[blm3034L!fe]

Originally Posted by DUPio

Lots of activity at the Country Club Towers site...

Interesting...

Do tell more!

[TakeFive]

Originally Posted by Denver

How is $80 million modest? Especially given that that money is going to be given to a private company.

They're not really giving any money; they are forgiving taxes that would otherwise be collected which is how most states and cities approach incentives. BTW, most states/cities love private companies bringing new business to their area.

I'd say within the context of of the $824 million cost of the project which is likely to end up higher by the time they proceed if they do, and the $300 million in incentives that Aurora is offering as well as the 2,500 permanent jobs and who knows the spinoff impact plus the estimated $273 million annual contribution or economic impact to the economy, that the state's contribution is "modest."

It's also my understanding that Gaylord has their own clients which would have the new option of coming to Gaylord Colorado. The city of Denver does not have an exclusive license over the whole metro area for convention and meeting business. If not Gaylord in Aurora, then maybe Lone Tree or Broomfield/Louisville or maybe both will some day consider providing their own facilities.

With respect to the two examples I gave in Phoenix, they were the two largest offering lots of meeting space and certainly were direct competitors of the many already existing alternatives. Perhaps initially when they were new they did cannibalize some business from others but ultimately they helped to grow the whole pie. Plus when Phoenix built a new $600 million convention center the state kicked in half. Just a guess that the current $19 billion in annual revenue (from conventions and tourism) is 50% higher than 10-12 years ago.

[Scottk]

Nvm

[Denver Dweller]

http://www.bizjournals.com/denver/mornin...bqOBYu5F%2FO7W7Amf&t=1424885873&page=all

[TakeFive]

Crappy weather

giphy.com

[RyanD]

Which dwarf planet will have crappier weather? Ceres or Pluto? Neither. They look the same and there's going to be nothing crazy that differentiates one from the other. Dan...

[DownhomeDenver]

Oh hey...lookie lookie

2015M00024 - 2014D00087 - 1144 15th St - 1144 Fifteenth - New Mixed Use Office Tower

[DenverInfill]

Originally Posted by TakeFive

They're not really giving any money; they are forgiving taxes that would otherwise be collected which is how most states and cities approach incentives. BTW, most states/cities love private companies bringing new business to their area.

I'd say within the context of of the $824 million cost of the project which is likely to end up higher by the time they proceed if they do, and the $300 million in incentives that Aurora is offering as well as the 2,500 permanent jobs and who knows the spinoff impact plus the estimated $273 million annual contribution or economic impact to the economy, that the state's contribution is "modest."

It's also my understanding that Gaylord has their own clients which would have the new option of coming to Gaylord Colorado. The city of Denver does not have an exclusive license over the whole metro area for convention and meeting business. If not Gaylord in Aurora, then maybe Lone Tree or Broomfield/Louisville or maybe both will some day consider providing their own facilities.

With respect to the two examples I gave in Phoenix, they were the two largest offering lots of meeting space and certainly were direct competitors of the many already existing alternatives. Perhaps initially when they were new they did cannibalize some business from others but ultimately they helped to grow the whole pie. Plus when Phoenix built a new $600 million convention center the state kicked in half. Just a guess that the current $19 billion in annual revenue (from conventions and tourism) is 50% higher than 10-12 years ago.

From a land use planning perspective, Gaylord is a disaster. Plunking a $800 million hotel and conference center in the middle of nowhere, tantalizingly close to a transit line yet not close enough so that 100% of everyone--employees and visitors--will drive there, is ridiculous. Why anyone would want to come to Colorado and spend the entire time cooped up inside a Disney-fied fake Colorado resort out in the middle of the plains is beyond me. I suppose if Gaylord can make a business like that work, good for them, but it doesn't mean the taxpayers have to subsidize them to the tune of almost $400 million. If the City of Aurora really was serious about building a sustainable city, they should put Gaylord on the huge undeveloped Aurora City Center site at Alameda and Sable across from the Aurora city government offices, the Aurora Mall, and a new LRT station. That would be an investment that makes some sense, and would help them realize their vision for some type of "downtown" for Aurora. What the Gaylord project does in its current proposal is simply affirm the obvious: Aurora is still a suburban-thinking suburb, and not a "big city" like they like to claim they are as a counterpart to Denver. Gaylord is an automobile-oriented sprawl generator.

[BG918]

Gaylord will be very close to the East line is their a possibility a stop could be added in the future? That would actually make it an interesting option for travelers because you could take the train downtown for dinner/events and to/from DIA. No need for a rental car of taking cabs.

[wong21fr]

Originally Posted by BG918

Gaylord will be very close to the East line is their a possibility a stop could be added in the future? That would actually make it an interesting option for travelers because you could take the train downtown for dinner/events and to/from DIA. No need for a rental car of taking cabs.

Sure, if they pay for it. It was actually proposed to add a station here when there were rumblings about the Stock Show moving out here. But, while Gaylord is "very close" to the East Line, it's not like the facility is going to to be aligned in any such way that makes taking the train convenient. Plus, it's not in Gaylord's interest to make it convenient for patrons to head downtown, they want/need them to stay within the confines of the facility and to spend recreational dollars there.

Gaylord will likely run shuttles to DIA and that will be the extent of their transit options.