Atlantic Canada airport thread

[Saul Goode]

Originally Posted by Pugsley

"CanJet was a Canadian low-cost air carrier headquartered in Enfield, Nova Scotia and based at Halifax International Airport. In addition to initially flying scheduled passenger service, CanJet operated charter flights using its own brand as well as flying contract and ad hoc charters for other tour operators and airlines throughout Canada and the United States. CanJet was wholly owned by IMP Group International and had 572 employees as of March 2007. The airline ceased operations in 2015."

You can throw Wikipedia at me all you want (at least have the decency to cite your dubious sources), but it doesn't change the facts. I actually flew CanJet many times and can assure you it was no ULCC. In fact, on any given day, its fares could easily equal or exceed those of other carriers.

[Pugsley]

Originally Posted by Saul Goode

You can throw Wikipedia at me all you want (at least have the decency to cite your dubious sources), but it doesn't change the facts. I actually flew CanJet many times and can assure you it was no ULCC. In fact, on any given day, its fares could easily equal or exceed those of other carriers.

Eye Roll. Fine. It wasn't an ULCC. It was a fine airline comparable to Air Canada, even Singapore Airlines for all I care. That's not what I remember many years back the one time I flew it but we'll go with what you have to say.

[EnvisionSaintJohn]

Who cares about if Can Jet was an ULCC or not? Sounds like they sucked and were barely cheaper than Air Canada.

Flair has had tickets Toronto from Saint John as cheap as $50 each day,

And round trips flights to Orlando now for under $200.

Yeah, we definitely would benefit from Porter making a return to YSJ, as they’ll put some pressure on Air Canada to compete with prices…

But so will Flair and other ULCC carriers. ULCC routes matter a lot for tourism and give non business travellers some great budget travel options.

It’s too bad Canada has so few ULCC’s compared to other countries. They do a lot more to get the big airlines to lower their prices than some of y’all in this thread are seemingly willing to admit. We should all want to see more ULCCs enter the Canadian market.

[sailor734]

Two points......

As discussed, the Canadian commercial aviation environment (gov. policy, population density and geography) is very different than the US or Europe and is not friendly to the ULCC model.

As to pressure AC to compete on pricing, Unless Flair grows dramatically I don't think Air Canada is taking much notice. At the moment I suspect the attitude is keep an eye on them but otherwise wait to see if they fail on their own.

Also, I suspect if you drew a Venn diagram of Flair's and AC's target market the overlap would be relatively small.

Flair may survive but if they do I suspect it may be some sort of hybrid model that depends heavily on seasonal charter flights to vacation destinations rather than scheduled intercity service.

As to "other ULCC carriers" The ability of Canada to support even one such carriers is very questionable. The odds of more than one operating successfully are vanishingly small.

[Sunnybrae]

Originally Posted by sailor734

Two points......

As discussed, the Canadian commercial aviation environment (gov. policy, population density and geography) is very different than the US or Europe and is not friendly to the ULCC model.

As to pressure AC to compete on pricing, Unless Flair grows dramatically I don't think Air Canada is taking much notice. At the moment I suspect the attitude is keep an eye on them but otherwise wait to see if they fail on their own.

Also, I suspect if you drew a Venn diagram of Flair's and AC's target market the overlap would be relatively small.

Flair may survive but if they do I suspect it may be some sort of hybrid model that depends heavily on seasonal charter flights to vacation destinations rather than scheduled intercity service.

As to "other ULCC carriers" The ability of Canada to support even one such carriers is very questionable. The odds of more than one operating successfully are vanishingly small.

Maybe the better comparison would be Australia? I know the population is smaller but there are some similarities.

[sailor734]

I don’t know much about aviation in Australia but I do suspect some of the challenges would be similar. I did read that Flair’s backer 777 partners was behind
an Aussie ULCC startup that recently folded. ( outfit called Bonza Air)

[MonctonRad]

Originally Posted by sailor734

I don’t know much about aviation in Australia but I do suspect some of the challenges would be similar. I did read that Flair’s backer 777 partners was behind
an Aussie ULCC startup that recently folded. ( outfit called Bonza Air)

Indeed. Australia has a duopoly of major carriers, like Canada. Their major airlines are QANTAS and Virgin. I don't believe they have a Porter equivalent.

[Justanothermember]

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

Indeed. Australia has a duopoly of major carriers, like Canada. Their major airlines are QANTAS and Virgin. I don't believe they have a Porter equivalent.

Rex Airlines are trying to establish themselves as the next Porter down under, however they are taking things much slower, not seeming to be in the hurry Porter are.

[sailor734]

Sounds like the Australian market is much like Canada with similar challenges for ULCC startups............. and a history of failed attempts just like Canada has.

https://theconversation.com/what-jus...stralia-228995

[Justanothermember]

Originally Posted by sailor734

Sounds like the Australian market is much like Canada with similar challenges for ULCC startups............. and a history of failed attempts just like Canada has.

https://theconversation.com/what-jus...stralia-228995

Similar populations, similar geographical constraints, it makes perfect sense to compare the two countries for ULCC.

[sailor734]

Originally Posted by Justanothermember

Rex Airlines are trying to establish themselves as the next Porter down under, however they are taking things much slower, not seeming to be in the hurry Porter are.

Yeah, the Porter expansion really seemed to come out of the blue and is happening fast. Their seat miles more than doubled between 2022 and 2023. Going from 30 odd Q400's to those 30 PLUS 34 E195's (at 60 million or so a pop) and 41 more on order is a very big deal. If things continue to roll out as they plan they will have a fleet of 100+ aircraft.

[Saul Goode]

Originally Posted by Pugsley

Eye Roll. Fine. It wasn't an ULCC. It was a fine airline comparable to Air Canada, even Singapore Airlines for all I care. That's not what I remember many years back the one time I flew it but we'll go with what you have to say.

Now you're rolling your eyes? That's rich. You're the one who went to the trouble of posting a Wikipedia entry for the sole purpose (apparently) of trying (unsuccessfully) to prove me wrong. Eye roll right back atcha...

[Saul Goode]

Originally Posted by EnvisionSaintJohn

Who cares about if Can Jet was an ULCC or not? Sounds like they sucked and were barely cheaper than Air Canada.

No, they didn't suck at all - they were fine. I flew them many times and had no complaints whatsoever.

But ultimately they found they just weren't going to be able to compete with AC and WestJet over the longer term and their owner (IMP) made the wise business decision to just shut the airline down.

[MonctonRad]

From the YQM Airport Spotter Page on Facebook.

A busy day on the tarmac at The Romeo LeBlanc International Airport in Moncton the other evening:



This one image shows planes from five carriers - WestJet, Air Canada, Porter, PAL and United.

United was "just visiting" - medical emergency.

[new kid in town]

I love seeing our airport busy. It gives me that buzz

[EnvisionSaintJohn]

Originally Posted by Saul Goode

No, they didn't suck at all - they were fine. I flew them many times and had no complaints whatsoever.

But ultimately they found they just weren't going to be able to compete with AC and WestJet over the longer term and their owner (IMP) made the wise business decision to just shut the airline down.

I was mainly just saying who cares if they were an ultra low cost versus low cost airlines… arguing over semantics is pointless. I said it sounds like they sucked based on what other posters said in this thread, I never flew with them. I have, however, flown on many US, European, and Asian low cost and ultra low cost airlines, and I’ve had less complaints with all of them combined than I’ve had with Air Canada since relocating to Saint John.

Canada needs to look at what the rest of the world is doing and regulate the industry a lot better than we have. We need more low cost airlines to operate to bring costs down, and we also just need to subsidize airlines more across the board, especially for smaller places likes New Brunswick where the free market is letting people down. The province of NB should be far more willing to subsidize flights and try to make deals with airlines to and improve the situation. Higgs obviously isn’t the guy to support doing that, but perhaps one of his successors and their government will be.

[NBNYer]

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

From the YQM Airport Spotter Page on Facebook.

A busy day on the tarmac at The Romeo LeBlanc International Airport in Moncton the other evening


This one image shows planes from five carriers - WestJet, Air Canada, Porter, PAL and United.

United was "just visiting" - medical emergency.

Cool to see a United plane back on the tarmac. I used to take their EWR-YQM flight all the time when it was in operation. Hopefully we'll see it back someday soon.

[Ozabald]

Originally Posted by EnvisionSaintJohn

I was mainly just saying who cares if they were an ultra low cost versus low cost airlines… arguing over semantics is pointless. I said it sounds like they sucked based on what other posters said in this thread, I never flew with them. I have, however, flown on many US, European, and Asian low cost and ultra low cost airlines, and I’ve had less complaints with all of them combined than I’ve had with Air Canada since relocating to Saint John.

Canada needs to look at what the rest of the world is doing and regulate the industry a lot better than we have. We need more low cost airlines to operate to bring costs down, and we also just need to subsidize airlines more across the board, especially for smaller places likes New Brunswick where the free market is letting people down. The province of NB should be far more willing to subsidize flights and try to make deals with airlines to and improve the situation. Higgs obviously isn’t the guy to support doing that, but perhaps one of his successors and their government will be.

NB tried the airline subsidy game in the 1990's with Northwest Airlines to support flights from YFC, YSJ and YQM to Boston. As soon as the subsidy dollars ended, so did the flights.

[MonctonRad]

Originally Posted by NBNYer

Cool to see a United plane back on the tarmac. I used to take their EWR-YQM flight all the time when it was in operation. Hopefully we'll see it back someday soon.

You'll like this picture then. It shows the United Flight, and a "rescue plane" that was sent to take the passengers ongoing.



I don't know why this was necessary, but for a time there were two United flights on the tarmac.

[EnvisionSaintJohn]

Originally Posted by Ozabald

NB tried the airline subsidy game in the 1990's with Northwest Airlines to support flight from YFC, YSJ and YQM to Boston. As soon as the subsidy dollars ended, so did the flights.

So in other words, subsidies worked.