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  #1  
Old Posted Mar 1, 2023, 3:35 AM
skysoar skysoar is offline
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Originally Posted by Kngkyle View Post
Seems that a lot of the undecided broke for Vallas as he's outperforming the polls by a pretty wide margin. Making the jump from 20% to 50% is a tall order for Johnson in the runoff.
Hope you are right, but in a city with this percentage of diversity, it could get tricky. But Vallas should win, turn out once again will be the key.
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  #2  
Old Posted Mar 1, 2023, 2:52 AM
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Lightfoot just conceded. She will officially be a 1 term mayor.
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  #3  
Old Posted Mar 1, 2023, 3:45 AM
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Well Vallas, the best candidate won, but Johnson, the worst candidate came in second. The runoff will be nasty, but the city can't afford a tax and spend criminal coddler like Johnson.
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  #4  
Old Posted Mar 1, 2023, 6:54 AM
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Both candidates have a case to make between now and the runoff in April and may moderate their positions to lure the other 50% of voters. But there's no guarantee of that. Depends on what strategy they try to run.

For Vallas, he may tone down the crime/cops talk since he's already got that issue locked up. But many Lightfoot, Garcia and Wilson voters care about crime too, so there could be a payoff for keeping his foot on the gas. Hopefully Vallas comes forward with some real solutions/ideas, which shouldn't be too hard for him if he's as wonky as he claims to be.

Johnson has a harder road. He dominated the progressive lane, but that's only 20-25% of the city max. I think he hinted at his strategy in his speech tonight - he will try to mop up the Black vote from Lightfoot, Wilson, Green, Buckner, King, Sawyer. That progressive/Black coalition is how Harold Washington won... But key to that is getting the votes from more conservative elements in the Black community. So he'll probably stress Black solidarity over the next month and focus on feel-good stuff in the community instead of divisive politics.

I'm probably leaning Johnson now, I really hate Johnson's tax plans but he has some great parts of his platform. Vallas has given me nothing to like, his platform is vaporware and buzzwords except for the crime & cops talk. Johnson's CTU support is problematic, but Vallas has basically an identical relationship with FOP at this point which is just as bad or worse. (Only one union is out there killing Chicagoans, and it ain't CTU)
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  #5  
Old Posted Mar 1, 2023, 11:25 AM
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  #6  
Old Posted Mar 1, 2023, 12:43 PM
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And honestly, if it weren't for his tax plan, it would be a little easier for me personally to align with Johnson. But that tax plan belongs in another year and not 2023. A lot of these things can lead to regression. At least he does seem to recognize that rising property taxes are a big issue. But he seems to think that raising other taxes won't have a negative impact which is short sighted IMO. Raising hotel taxes when Chicago is already the highest in the country isn't good and neither is more taxes on jet fuel. That will drive tourism and also convention business further away from here. Charging a financial transaction tax will hurt the thriving financial industry here too - some financial companies have made it clear they have no problems investing their business in historically non traditional financial centers such as Miami, Tampa, and Dallas. Chicago's competitive advantage in this regard has waned as we have become too complacent. The employee head tax thing may be a wash if it's just $4 per employee per year. Chicago still has an advantage when it comes to this just due to COL but these things slowly chip away at that. Charging commuters in from the suburbs via Metra more will either deter them from coming into the city or cause even more people to drive. I have coworkers in the suburbs who now drive into downtown because it's cheaper than the Metra. This could be a regression in plans for a greener city/area.

On the topic of public safety, I do agree with a long term plan of actually addressing root causes. Always have. But the issue of crime is so complex and nothing is going to be fixed within a year or 2. You cannot just have massive reductions quickly in a police force and expect that were all going to be safe. These things need to be gradual and in proportion to any success of the overall plan. That's my big gripe with these things. At least Lightfoot appeared to understand this.
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  #7  
Old Posted Mar 1, 2023, 1:27 PM
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^ I don’t think Johnson has proposed any taxes that will directly hit middle class families, depending on what the threshold is for the real estate transfer tax. What I’m worried is the job losses that could result from the corporate head and financial transaction taxes he’s proposing. Not to mention the hike on suburban Metra prices. Metra is already expensive, and making it more challenging for suburbanites to get downtown would absolutely make companies less likely to locate / stay there.
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  #8  
Old Posted Mar 1, 2023, 2:26 PM
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^ I don’t think Johnson has proposed any taxes that will directly hit middle class families, depending on what the threshold is for the real estate transfer tax. What I’m worried is the job losses that could result from the corporate head and financial transaction taxes he’s proposing. Not to mention the hike on suburban Metra prices. Metra is already expensive, and making it more challenging for suburbanites to get downtown would absolutely make companies less likely to locate / stay there.
What's interesting is even though Johnson has stated multiple times leading up to last night that his 3.5% income tax isn't part of his plan, it had to have been when he first released it. Every single outlet was reporting he wanted a 3.5% income tax. It's not like it was some random news outlet. My guess is Johnson saw the immediate blowback and immediately yanked it out of his plan.

My beef is he wants to tax everything under the sun that's already taxed to the max. He's proposing a hike on hotel taxes when we already have some of the highest in the nation. As a city that gets a fair share of tourism, I'm very against this.

He's also very for "Defund the Police", which is an instant no-go for me. It was a cute social experiment in 2020, but most people are over it now. For this time, Vallas is the better of the two candidates. If we were in a different era, under different circumstances, I think other candidates would have done better. People just want the crime to go down, and the CTU to be held accountable.
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  #9  
Old Posted Mar 1, 2023, 2:48 PM
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What's interesting is even though Johnson has stated multiple times leading up to last night that his 3.5% income tax isn't part of his plan, it had to have been when he first released it. Every single outlet was reporting he wanted a 3.5% income tax. It's not like it was some random news outlet. My guess is Johnson saw the immediate blowback and immediately yanked it out of his plan.

My beef is he wants to tax everything under the sun that's already taxed to the max. He's proposing a hike on hotel taxes when we already have some of the highest in the nation. As a city that gets a fair share of tourism, I'm very against this.

He's also very for "Defund the Police", which is an instant no-go for me. It was a cute social experiment in 2020, but most people are over it now. For this time, Vallas is the better of the two candidates. If we were in a different era, under different circumstances, I think other candidates would have done better. People just want the crime to go down, and the CTU to be held accountable.
I had to go back and re-read articles about the 3.5% plan. There is an organization that Johnson aligns to with their own tax plan which called out a 3.5% tax for $100K+ households. The article did state though that he did not align with that part of the plan. It didn't offer anything about his stance other than he wasn't taking it at the time.

Still, everything else is even worse. Can I afford 3.5% income tax? Yes. I don't want to (did it in NYC...over it) but it's the other taxes that give me way more pause. Financial transaction tax? Taxing suburban commuters on Metra? Taxing hotels even more when Chicago is literally #1 highest in taxes? These are regressive taxes, not progressive. And while paying $4/yr headcount won't kill a big business, they will think twice about increasing headcount as much in Chicago than they normally would as a result. This impacts everyone.
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  #10  
Old Posted Mar 1, 2023, 2:50 PM
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My beef is he wants to tax everything under the sun that's already taxed to the max. He's proposing a hike on hotel taxes when we already have some of the highest in the nation. As a city that gets a fair share of tourism, I'm very against this.
I'm not a fan of Johnson's tax proposals, at all. On the other hand, unlike Vallas, he has actually presented a way to pay for his agenda. When will Vallas have to show the numbers on his spending proposals?

I personally prefer "tax & spend" to just "spend" as the second just takes us back to Daly-era politics. Vallas needs to answer for why districts seemed to end up in worse financial shape after he left.

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By the end of the Vallas era, both Vallas and the city were disenchanted. A “surprise” $73 million deficit had cropped up. Vallas had enormous ambitions, and spent accordingly, souring his backers on his ability to lead effectively. In the end, Vallas skipped out on a School Reform Commission farewell.

After Philadelphia, Vallas became schools chief in post-Katrina New Orleans, where he closed traditional schools, expanded charters, and generally embraced a free-market model for public education.
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  #11  
Old Posted Mar 1, 2023, 2:52 PM
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I'm not a fan of Johnson's tax proposals, at all. On the other hand, unlike Vallas, he has actually presented a way to pay for his agenda. When will Vallas have to show the numbers on his spending proposals?

I personally prefer "tax & spend" to just "spend" as the second just takes us back to Daly-era politics. Vallas needs to answer for why districts seemed to end up in worse financial shape after he left.

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I don't disagree with that sentiment but Johnson's plan will be regressive. For example, when we raise hotel taxes even more (again, we're the top in the country and that's not a good thing) that hotels become more expensive it will decrease tourism and also make a lot of the conventions think twice about holding their events in Chicago. This hurts those who work in that industry which covers all income classes.
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  #12  
Old Posted Mar 1, 2023, 2:48 PM
Vlajos Vlajos is offline
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Originally Posted by tjp View Post
^ I don’t think Johnson has proposed any taxes that will directly hit middle class families, depending on what the threshold is for the real estate transfer tax. What I’m worried is the job losses that could result from the corporate head and financial transaction taxes he’s proposing. Not to mention the hike on suburban Metra prices. Metra is already expensive, and making it more challenging for suburbanites to get downtown would absolutely make companies less likely to locate / stay there.
Every tax Johnson has proposed is a job killer. That hurts, rich, middle class and the poor.
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  #13  
Old Posted Mar 1, 2023, 7:05 PM
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In alderperson news, Angela Clay is advancing to the run-off in the 46th ward in a pretty strong position. It'll be really difficult to get any market rate apartment developments approved if she wins.
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  #14  
Old Posted Mar 1, 2023, 1:30 PM
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And honestly, if it weren't for his tax plan, it would be a little easier for me personally to align with Johnson. But that tax plan belongs in another year and not 2023. A lot of these things can lead to regression. At least he does seem to recognize that rising property taxes are a big issue. But he seems to think that raising other taxes won't have a negative impact which is short sighted IMO. Raising hotel taxes when Chicago is already the highest in the country isn't good and neither is more taxes on jet fuel. That will drive tourism and also convention business further away from here. Charging a financial transaction tax will hurt the thriving financial industry here too - some financial companies have made it clear they have no problems investing their business in historically non traditional financial centers such as Miami, Tampa, and Dallas. Chicago's competitive advantage in this regard has waned as we have become too complacent. The employee head tax thing may be a wash if it's just $4 per employee per year. Chicago still has an advantage when it comes to this just due to COL but these things slowly chip away at that. Charging commuters in from the suburbs via Metra more will either deter them from coming into the city or cause even more people to drive. I have coworkers in the suburbs who now drive into downtown because it's cheaper than the Metra. This could be a regression in plans for a greener city/area.

On the topic of public safety, I do agree with a long term plan of actually addressing root causes. Always have. But the issue of crime is so complex and nothing is going to be fixed within a year or 2. You cannot just have massive reductions quickly in a police force and expect that were all going to be safe. These things need to be gradual and in proportion to any success of the overall plan. That's my big gripe with these things. At least Lightfoot appeared to understand this.
100% agreed on all of this.
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  #15  
Old Posted Mar 1, 2023, 5:04 PM
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I’ve never been this concerned about a local election or this distrusting of the candidate pool.

I’m worried and don’t know what’s next on the horizon. I’ve seen my real estate value nearly flat line. My prop taxes increased 25% in the last 6 years, cost of managing a building in this city has skyrocketed to the point where I’ve had to take on that responsibility myself and I do think it’s tied to current issues. level of public services seems eroded and further burdened by expiration of federal funds. I realize crime is bad everywhere, but our reputation the most damaged nationwide. Morale and civic pride seem lower than ever among everyone I talk to. Feeling burned out and concerned. I wish there was a candidate to be excited about this election with more mechanical solutions vs long term aspirations that will do nothing to repair urgent problems

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  #16  
Old Posted Mar 1, 2023, 10:28 PM
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I’ve never been this concerned about a local election or this distrusting of the candidate pool.

I’m worried and don’t know what’s next on the horizon. I’ve seen my real estate value nearly flat line. My prop taxes increased 25% in the last 6 years, cost of managing a building in this city has skyrocketed to the point where I’ve had to take on that responsibility myself and I do think it’s tied to current issues. level of public services seems eroded and further burdened by expiration of federal funds. I realize crime is bad everywhere, but our reputation the most damaged nationwide. Morale and civic pride seem lower than ever among everyone I talk to. Feeling burned out and concerned. I wish there was a candidate to be excited about this election with more mechanical solutions vs long term aspirations that will do nothing to repair urgent problems
Morale? Civic Pride? I haven't heard a damned thing positive about Chicago in several years, it seems. Perception has become reality, the constant barrage of "if it bleeds, it leads" has completely destroyed people's ability to critically think for themselves. Seriously, what this city needs is a massive Ra! Ra! Ra! Mayor who constantly talks about what makes this city great as opposed to constantly being somber about its issue, at least in the public forum. This city needs a morale boost in the worst way! The first place to start is our local media, pretty much everything reported is what a shithole this place is. Enough, already!

It wasn't like this pre -COVID, or at least it didn't seem this bad. People's mindsets have changed in the last few years, entirely for the worse, unfortunately.

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  #17  
Old Posted Mar 2, 2023, 3:40 AM
marothisu marothisu is offline
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I’ve never been this concerned about a local election or this distrusting of the candidate pool.

I’m worried and don’t know what’s next on the horizon. I’ve seen my real estate value nearly flat line. My prop taxes increased 25% in the last 6 years, cost of managing a building in this city has skyrocketed to the point where I’ve had to take on that responsibility myself and I do think it’s tied to current issues. level of public services seems eroded and further burdened by expiration of federal funds. I realize crime is bad everywhere, but our reputation the most damaged nationwide. Morale and civic pride seem lower than ever among everyone I talk to. Feeling burned out and concerned. I wish there was a candidate to be excited about this election with more mechanical solutions vs long term aspirations that will do nothing to repair urgent problems
Which is why of the 2, I think Vallas has more promise than Johnson on this. People have seen me do tons of analysis on crime. I've done it for various outlets too and there is a lot of bullshit out there. For example, the amount of robbery in the city thru 2/22 is nearly 20% lower than it was in 2013, which was one of the lowest years for crime at the time since 1965. The amount in Near North Side + The Loop + Lakeview + Lincoln Park + Uptown + Lincoln Square + North Center + Edgewater this year is literally only 1 more than the same time period in 2019 had, and nearly 25% lower than what it was in 2013. There is also some truth that between mid 2020 and mid 2022, there was an uptick in shootings downtown, increase of robberies in West Town, etc. Some other parts of town like the north side didn't see much change from before really, though.

Yet people even in these areas don't talk about it like that. They're convinced that it's just incredibly worse than it's ever been when nothing is further from the truth. But perception matters a lot and they've convinced a whole lot of people and the national media that even in these areas it's the worst ever. And people/business who are looking at the city will look at these stories and start worrying. I'm not talking about your outlier who holds onto stereotypes for 30 years. A lot of "regular" people look into that and if all they see is negative news, it can swing some people to not consider Chicago. Obviously many will - Chicago continues to be where many move to, but it could be even more and less people could leave.

Vallas could end up like a Giuliani where everyone gives him credit for reducing crime, when it was actually already reducing before that. Chicago's homicides and shootings have been reducing for many months now. We're currently almost 15% lower for homicides than a year ago, and about 8.5% lower than 2018. That's not the perception though. People think murders are still increasing in the city. Perception matters a ton.

The sooner Chicago can get off the national psyche for crime perception (whether real, imagined, or a combination of both), the better. And Vallas I believe can do that. Whether homicides and shootings continue to come down under his watch, and reduce other types of crime is a different story. I do agree with him that feeling safe in your city literally everywhere is important. When I lived in NYC, there was hardly any areas I ever felt unsafe in. I'd say a good 75% of Chicago to me is like that, but 25% is by far worse than anywhere in NYC and it's not even close. Nobody should feel unsafe anywhere they are (unless they're being a racist asshole - that's a completely different story).


On the flip side, we need to see some actual changes in crime. And that starts with addressing the root causes. But it also doesn't mean you cut off a police force fast. It'll take years and years to fix some of these issues. I don't really understand people who see this in black and white. You need both a short and long term plan on how you are going to get there. Everyone seems to either have a short term plan, or a long term plan. Not both.
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  #18  
Old Posted Mar 1, 2023, 7:42 PM
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OK now that we're in the runoff times, I've got questions. . .

1) Given that only 1/3 of eligible Chicago voters showed up to the general, what percentage do you expect for the runoff?

2) Assuming Vallas/Johnson voters will continue to vote in line for their candidate come April, what percentage of those remaining voters will show up?

3) What percentage of those remaining votes go to whom? List ??% Vallas ??% Johnson for the following:
3a) Lori Lightfoot
3b) Jesus Garcia
3c) Willie Wilson
3d) Ja'Mal Green
3e) Kam Buckner
3f) Sophia King
3g) Roderick Sawyer

I'd like to think we could game this out and predict the winner in short order using my extremely inaccurate scientific method. . . what say you???

. . .
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  #19  
Old Posted Mar 1, 2023, 10:31 PM
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OK now that we're in the runoff times, I've got questions. . .

1) Given that only 1/3 of eligible Chicago voters showed up to the general, what percentage do you expect for the runoff?

2) Assuming Vallas/Johnson voters will continue to vote in line for their candidate come April, what percentage of those remaining voters will show up? Johnson will try to get most of the black vote but they are not a majority.

3) What percentage of those remaining votes go to whom? List ??% Vallas ??% Johnson for the following:
3a) Lori Lightfoot
3b) Jesus Garcia
3c) Willie Wilson
3d) Ja'Mal Green
3e) Kam Buckner
3f) Sophia King
3g) Roderick Sawyer

I'd like to think we could game this out and predict the winner in short order using my extremely inaccurate scientific method. . . what say you???

. . .
Is it possible Garcia's voters will gravitate to Vallas in a majority? Who will get the majority of the Hispanic vote? Who did the diverse Asian voters choose? Johnson is going to try to get most of the black vote but they are not a majority. Are there blocks of white voters attracted to Johnson?

The business group and their monies are clearly backing Vallas for good reason.

Turnout is going to be very important. Every Vallas voter has to go out and vote again preferably twice. Vallas needs about 15% more votes, but from whom the most?
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  #20  
Old Posted Mar 2, 2023, 2:52 AM
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Is it possible Garcia's voters will gravitate to Vallas in a majority? Who will get the majority of the Hispanic vote? Who did the diverse Asian voters choose? Johnson is going to try to get most of the black vote but they are not a majority. Are there blocks of white voters attracted to Johnson?

The business group and their monies are clearly backing Vallas for good reason.how it sw

Turnout is going to be very important. Every Vallas voter has to go out and vote again preferably twice. Vallas needs about 15% more votes, but from whom the most?
There was a poll recently which was very favorable to Johnson, but showed that the 2nd choice of Chuy voters was split pretty evenly between Vallas and Johnson. There is a growing more moderate and even right wing Latino base in the country. I don't know how it swings in Chicago, but I think that a lot of people who assume "because they're minorities, they're in the bag for Johnson" are behind on some of these things. And many Willie Wilson voters will probably end up voting for Vallas IMO. Some Lightfoot voters could also go either way, I think.

For example, in the 22nd ward which is Little Village between Cermak, I-55, Kedzie/Homan, and a little west of Kilbourn, 9 of the 19 precincts had Vallas coming in 2nd place to Chuy while 1 had Lightfoot winning, and another 2 with Lightfoot coming in 2nd. Overall, Vallas beat Johnson is this ward 630 to 504. And then in Ward 12, which is Brighton Park (and maybe a little McKinley Park), Vallas actually beat Johnson in all 22 precincts with Vallas actually winning 3 of them. Chuy had 45% of the vote in this ward, while Vallas had almost 29% and Johnson had just over 13.5%. So if those who voted for Chuy show up to vote again, things could swing in ways that some people might not expect.

What will be more interesting to see is how LL voters vote.
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Last edited by marothisu; Mar 2, 2023 at 3:24 AM.
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