[Halifax] Nova Centre | 65-58-58 m | 16-15-14 fl | Completed

[fenwick16]

Originally Posted by RyeJay

Absolutely nothing wrong with more residential for the downtown. Eventually, I hope, the increased density will stimulate the possibility of a grocery store in a central location, perhaps around/inside Scotia Square Mall of which may be getting its own renovations and additions.

That might be a good location. Originally there was a grocery store in the Scotia Square Mall. It was still there in the mid to late 70's. I am not sure when it closed? I would say that it was probably just a few thousand square feet with its own parkade entrance (it was down the Mall passageway from the Food Court).

Another option would be a street-level accessible store. Maybe once the Discovery Centre relocates then the ground floor of the new development could be a grocery store. I think this would be a great place for a grocery store - http://maps.google.ca/maps?q=halifax,+ns...7scoM7eV6dS7i3gWxtA&cbp=12,5.32,,0,-0.23

[sdm]

Originally Posted by fenwick16

That might be for the best. It could still have an attached hotel and maybe instead of 100's of thousands of square feet of office space it could contain a residential tower. However a residential tower might have to be rental since I think that a condo tower would have to be built on dedicated land owned by the condo tower (I know that a condo tower can't be built on leased land in Nova Scotia - a good rule in my opinion). I think that residential units at that location would be popular.

In my opinion, the most important part of the Nova Centre is the new convention centre. I don't think that part of the development can be made smaller without approval from the three levels of government. Whatever the final plan is, it will be great to see that vacant site developed.

Well with less commercial and or hotel then proposed the tax income coming into the city will be significantly less then what they approved (councils vote was based on this income) and will end up costing the city more money in the end. This might require a new vote of council, and with an election coming it could get interesting.....and could result in a delay till the new council is voted in. Who knows....

Additionally let us not forget that the city will likely be required to buy the old convention centre, which has been quiet on to what they use might end up being.

[sdm]

Originally Posted by fenwick16

That might be a good location. Originally there was a grocery store in the Scotia Square Mall. It was still there in the mid to late 70's. I am not sure when it closed? I would say that it was probably just a few thousand square feet with its own parkade entrance (it was down the Mall passageway from the Food Court).

Another option would be a street-level accessible store. Maybe once the Discovery Centre relocates then the ground floor of the new development could be a grocery store. I think this would be a great place for a grocery store - http://maps.google.ca/maps?q=halifax,+ns...7scoM7eV6dS7i3gWxtA&cbp=12,5.32,,0,-0.23

Well considering sobeys own scotia square i would think they would probably rent from themselves if demand for such a store existed. Might not be the best location (scotia) but paying rent to yourself rather then a competitor makes a bit of sense.

[RyeJay]

Originally Posted by fenwick16

That might be a good location. Originally there was a grocery store in the Scotia Square Mall. It was still there in the mid to late 70's. I am not sure when it closed? I would say that it was probably just a few thousand square feet with its own parkade entrance (it was down the Mall passageway from the Food Court).

Another option would be a street-level accessible store. Maybe once the Discovery Centre relocates then the ground floor of the new development could be a grocery store. I think this would be a great place for a grocery store - http://maps.google.ca/maps?q=halifax,+ns...7scoM7eV6dS7i3gWxtA&cbp=12,5.32,,0,-0.23

Considering Sobey's has the advantage of owning Scotia Square Mall, the former location of the Discovery Centre would be an option for an Atlantic Super Store, perhaps. The end of Barrington Street has one, but being so far away and car dependent (as that enormous surface parking lot grossly reminds us), this central location would be smaller, and accessible at street-level as you mentioned, and would definitely be a success in the student market to which Skye Halifax wishes to cater.

[Keith P.]

Any grocery store downtown would not likely be either a Sobeys or Superstore, but a smaller outlet with one of their other brands, like Freshmart. The chains do not like putting their name on something that does not meet their standards for assortment or square footage. But fortunately they have other brands. And of course you are overlooking Pete's, which does huge business.

[RyeJay]

Whatever. Whatever grocery store would do fine.

[fenwick16]

Originally Posted by sdm

Well with less commercial and or hotel then proposed the tax income coming into the city will be significantly less then what they approved (councils vote was based on this income) and will end up costing the city more money in the end. This might require a new vote of council, and with an election coming it could get interesting.....and could result in a delay till the new council is voted in. Who knows....

Additionally let us not forget that the city will likely be required to buy the old convention centre, which has been quiet on to what they use might end up being.

It would be interesting to see the tax breakdown, but I think that 150 - 200 residential units would generate a significant tax income. Probably ~ $2 property tax dollars per square foot (example - $2,000 property tax for a 1000 square foot condo/apartment). The tax dollars being thrown around for the Skye development is $6 million per year (it might be an exaggeration though).

I am guessing that there will still be 100,000 square feet plus of commercial space plus a major hotel.

I think that this is a done deal. I can't imagine the city deciding to forgo provincial and federal funding, especially considering that it took almost 5 years to obtain. What would be a better option - the Cogswell Interchange option would be giving up city owned land with the added expense of tearing down the interchange with little to no tax benefit - that option had neither a hotel, commercial or residential space (that I can remember).

[gm_scott]

Originally Posted by Keith P.

Any grocery store downtown would not likely be either a Sobeys or Superstore, but a smaller outlet with one of their other brands, like Freshmart. The chains do not like putting their name on something that does not meet their standards for assortment or square footage. But fortunately they have other brands. And of course you are overlooking Pete's, which does huge business.

http://supermarketnews.com/latest-news/sobeys-urban-fresh-debuts-edmonton
Sobey's has these. Even though the article is from 2008, I think they are continuing with the concept. I've dreamed to have one of these open in Halifax for a while.

[someone123]

Yeah, Sobeys does have the urban format stores now, although those were built in areas where there wasn't much of a pre-existing Sobeys brand name.

It would be nice to see an urban format grocery store on Barrington but I doubt that it is considered an attractive location for one by the grocery chains. There is not a lot of population around Barrington (really any part of it, including Scotia Square), and people are not going to come in from other parts of Halifax to go to a downtown Sobeys (Pete's is slightly different).

That could change with some new residential buildings though.

[someone123]

Originally Posted by sdm

Well with less commercial and or hotel then proposed the tax income coming into the city will be significantly less then what they approved (councils vote was based on this income) and will end up costing the city more money in the end.

The tax argument was always pretty silly. One big problem with it is that it's not at all clear that the extra parts of the Nova Centre would not otherwise be built in the city in some other form. Who's to say that without a hotel there we wouldn't get another one next door to satisfy the same demand that would pay approximately the same taxes?

Does anybody know what the actual agreement with Rank is, and what requirements they must satisfy in order to get the funding that was agreed to? It doesn't really matter what was on the powerpoint slides shown to council.

[W.Sobchak]

Why couldn't the CBC move there? Their plan is to rent, and sell of both properties anyways. It would have a kick ass background for the news.

[haligonia]

Originally Posted by W.Sobchak

Why couldn't the CBC move there? Their plan is to rent, and sell of both properties anyways. It would have a kick ass background for the news.

That's actually a pretty great idea.

[fenwick16]

Originally Posted by W.Sobchak

Why couldn't the CBC move there? Their plan is to rent, and sell of both properties anyways. It would have a kick ass background for the news.

A story in the allnovascotia.com on April 24, 2012 indicated that the CBC is negotiating with Joe Ramia but for the expanded ex-Bay store in the West End Mall.

[sdm]

Originally Posted by someone123

The tax argument was always pretty silly. One big problem with it is that it's not at all clear that the extra parts of the Nova Centre would not otherwise be built in the city in some other form. Who's to say that without a hotel there we wouldn't get another one next door to satisfy the same demand that would pay approximately the same taxes?

Does anybody know what the actual agreement with Rank is, and what requirements they must satisfy in order to get the funding that was agreed to? It doesn't really matter what was on the powerpoint slides shown to council.

Tax argument is not silly, its council who decided to fund this based on the tax revenue. Therein lies the silly part.

[reddog794]

Dang it, I need an allnovascotia account.

[RyeJay]

Originally Posted by fenwick16

A story in the allnovascotia.com on April 24, 2012 indicated that the CBC is negotiating with Joe Ramia but for the expanded ex-Bay store in the West End Mall.

Ugh...really?...

Well, at least they aren't leaving the peninsula.
God damn CBC cuts

[scooby074]

Originally Posted by RyeJay

Ugh...really?...

Well, at least they aren't leaving the peninsula.
God damn CBC cuts

Ironically Global sees the value of community TV and is investing millions in the old Palooka's gym turning it into a community broadcast centre.

CBC should be doing the same. The old Bay site really isnt what id call "community". Making them more accessible to the local public would only help them. Really getting tired of their Toronto based broadcasts.

[haligonia]

Originally Posted by scooby074

Ironically Global sees the value of community TV and is investing millions in the old Palooka's gym turning it into a community broadcast centre.

CBC should be doing the same. The old Bay site really isnt what id call "community". Making them more accessible to the local public would only help them. Really getting tired of their Toronto based broadcasts.

I bet the CBC could do a lot more if the fucking asshats running this country could see the value in public broadcasting.

[goosnarrggh]

Originally Posted by sdm

the rumour i heard as of late is that the original plan isn't happening, and that plan b is coming forward and won't incorporate a lot of the original.

Ramia's "Plan B" had always been for a smaller development that would only include the office, residential, and hotel components in the event that government's support for the convention centre fell through.

His "Plan B" did not cover the case of the convention centre going ahead alone, or with scaled back office, residential, and hotel components. He had always planned on basically breaking even on the convention centre portion (a requirement of being eligible to receive government funding), and only making profits on the rest of the project.

Any project plan that maintained the convention centre, but involved eliminating or scaling back the other components of the project, would have to qualify as, at best, a "Plan C".

[CorbeauNoir]

It's a total pipe dream, but with the AGNS having had some murmuring about moving to a new location I'd have loved to see it relocating to this site. There'd be a really nice little arts and culture district on Argyle along with the Neptune Theatre, sort of like the western end of Stephen Avenue in downtown Calgary. They could even keep it in line with the original intent and share the gallery building with convention/office space like the Glenbow does.