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  #2821  
Old Posted May 29, 2019, 8:45 PM
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Originally Posted by danishh View Post
The current approach, and previous approach, are entirely because the federal government refuses to actually fund the NCCs developments.

If any government was willing to spend a few billion on it, any of these ideas are possible.
As it stands, the condos are REQUIRED to fund anything, either in the previous plan (one massive site with a public component supported by condo profits), or the current one (piecemeal condo development, with the NCC reaping fees to be spent on a public component at a later date).

So, who's voting for increased income taxes this November? That's what it will take.
Why can't they just hand over the land for someone to build an arena. Of course it would need to be self-sustaining... but without land cost could it be a go?

Of course a bunch of yelling and screaming will occur... but taxes wouldn't have to be touched.
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  #2822  
Old Posted May 30, 2019, 3:17 AM
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Originally Posted by HighwayStar View Post
Why can't they just hand over the land for someone to build an arena. Of course it would need to be self-sustaining... but without land cost could it be a go?

Of course a bunch of yelling and screaming will occur... but taxes wouldn't have to be touched.
it's not enough, they still need at least 250M, likely closer to 400M, to build the arena. Edmonton's cost $480M. Debt tied to ticket levies, increased team profits, increased event profits, seat licences, etc can probably get half of that. The way to pay for the rest that was the condos.

This is also how the palladium was funded by the way, a giant real estate scheme (that mostly failed, leading to the bankruptcy).
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  #2823  
Old Posted May 30, 2019, 3:24 AM
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Originally Posted by McKellarDweller View Post
I really think a good quality indoor waterpark with lots of natural light and things to do would do very well here long-term. The upfront costs would be high, and it may have a weak year or two of revenue before it gets off the ground, but I think it would be more than worth the effort as a draw for locals and visitors in our eight month long drabby weather season.

Some things in city building take more vision and risk than a publicly funded library, or basic quality condo apartments.
mixed Conservatory/water park/spa with a major hotel attached. An oasis for the winter! A splash pool ++++
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  #2824  
Old Posted May 30, 2019, 3:36 AM
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Originally Posted by migo View Post
How about earmarking a portion of the land for the development of major amusement park with a landmark ride like the London Eye?
I would like to see a permanent amusement park out at Rideau-Carleton where there is plenty of less expensive land but a giant ferris-wheel at Lebreton, by all means.
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  #2825  
Old Posted May 30, 2019, 3:08 PM
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Originally Posted by lrt's friend View Post
I would like to see a permanent amusement park out at Rideau-Carleton where there is plenty of less expensive land but a giant ferris-wheel at Lebreton, by all means.
I agree that building a major amusement park on the edge of downtown would be a waste of valuable real-estate. Attractions at LeBreton should be compact and usable all year long.

While I wouldn't be opposed to a Ferris wheel, I am not sure we should be just copying landmarks at other cities. Instead should do something more unique.
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  #2826  
Old Posted May 30, 2019, 3:15 PM
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Originally Posted by roger1818 View Post
I agree that building a major amusement park on the edge of downtown would be a waste of valuable real-estate. Attractions at LeBreton should be compact and usable all year long.

While I wouldn't be opposed to a Ferris wheel, I am not sure we should be just copying landmarks at other cities. Instead should do something more unique.
Are we creative enough to come up with something bold and unique? But I agree with your point.
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  #2827  
Old Posted Aug 31, 2019, 1:02 PM
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With LeBreton Flats vision, NCC has taken a worrisome turn

John Baird & John Manley
Updated: August 30, 2019


Three years ago on these pages, we shared our views on the best approach to developing LeBreton Flats. We stressed this endeavour should not be seen as a run-of-the-mill National Capital Commission project. It will be a legacy of the national government for all Canadians. This has to be about more than building yet another urban community or adding thousands of condos that may take decades to sell and construct.

At the time, we suggested combining the best of the two proposals the NCC was then considering. For reasons unknown, they opted not to heed our advice.

Fortunately, recent events – notably the collapse of the RendezVous LeBreton partnership – provide an opportunity to rethink the development of this unique urban space.

LeBreton comprises some 85 hectares (210 acres) of public land in Canada’s capital – the sole remaining vacant space proximate to the parliamentary precinct. Properly developed, it holds the potential to be like Central Park in New York or Mont Royal in Montreal. All Canadians, not just local residents, have a stake in the land and opportunity.

To get LeBreton right, we first need a comprehensive vision. The NCC is clearly of the view that there should be a residential community on LeBreton Flats. We totally disagree. The NCC says there will be some public space, but won’t say how much. Our view – that LeBreton should be primarily a public space – does not appear to be an option.

The NCC has initiated a process, and just recently hired a Calgary firm, to develop what it calls a “Master Concept Plan.” That is a welcome step. However, in its terms of reference for the project, the NCC stipulates the Master Concept Plan must “build on” an existing plan agreed to in 1997, which was itself based on an approach developed by consultants in 1989.

We have three concerns about the direction the NCC is taking. First, urban planning has evolved considerably over the past 30 years, as have Canadians’ views about the best use of scarce urban green space. Our vision for LeBreton shouldn’t be stuck in the past.

Second, the 1997 plan was dominated by residential and commercial properties. Are there office towers in Central Park? Condos on Mont Royal? An arena in London’s Hyde Park? We do not see office towers and condos as essential considerations in any vision for a potentially majestic destination. This is public land that should be dedicated to the shared interests of all Canadians, not restricted for the few to enjoy. It should be a showcase of the very best of Canada, attracting visitors from across the country and abroad.

Make no mistake: we understand that economic reality requires some private participation in the development of LeBreton. But the overarching emphasis should be on the public nature of the space, publicly financed.

Third, during the development of the Master Concept Plan, the NCC intends to move ahead with plans for certain parts of the Flats. This, in our view, is a huge mistake. One sure way to get this wrong is to sell off bits and pieces to developers for individual projects. It must not happen.

So what should happen? Given the national significance of the project, the federal government should designate all, or almost all, of the Flats as a “National Interest Land Mass.” The NCC should then launch an international competition, inviting proposals from Canada’s and the world’s best urban planners and architects. A national project such as this deserves the best.

At the same time, the NCC should be making use of the knowledge and information gathered by the two bidders that made it to the final round of the last LeBreton redevelopment process. In preparing their multi-million-dollar proposals, both groups gained valuable insight into the constraints of the site and its commercial realities. It would be a shame if, moving forward, planners were not able to take advantage of that information.

In its 2014 “Requests for Qualifications” for LeBreton, and in its recent tender for an updated master plan, the NCC took the approach of an international competition. Surprisingly, however, interest from outside the country was low. This time, we need to make sure we attract the best ideas and submissions from around the world. An executive advisory group – composed of prominent Canadians with appropriate skills, experience and connections – should be created to assist the NCC in this effort and to evaluate the proposals in a public and transparent process.

As former elected representatives serving residents of the National Capital Region for several decades, from opposite sides of the political aisle, we believe the federal government has an obligation to find a path forward that will give Canadians pride and pleasure for decades to come.

Let’s not settle for less. Let’s get on with the difficult business of greatness.

John Manley is a former Liberal MP of Ottawa South (1988-2004) and John Baird is a former Conservative MP of Ottawa West-Nepean (2006-2015).

https://ottawacitizen.com/opinion/co...worrisome-turn
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  #2828  
Old Posted Aug 31, 2019, 1:24 PM
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Memories fade - did either of them work to promote this "vision" when they were in their respective Cabinet positions?
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  #2829  
Old Posted Aug 31, 2019, 5:03 PM
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I could not disagree more with these two former politicians. Ottawa already has plenty of massive green spaces in the central area: the Parkways, Parliament Hill, the Central Experimental Farm, the Greenbelt. All of them are great spaces and should, for the most part, be preserved, if not improved to a certain point (Taverns and Bistros, the SJAM Parkway Park are good initiatives).

LeBreton Flats however, is not like these other spaces. The area is serviced by both the Confederation and Trillium Lines, two stations. It's an important tract of land on our way to a denser, more sustainable city. It is the final piece of the downtown puzzle that can complete a continuous loop of activity, with Zibi, Vieux Hull, the Portage, Cartier du Musée, Civilization, the Byward Market, the CBD and back to LeBreton, it will truly connect the entire downtown of the National Capital Region.

Of course, some green space and open plazas should be included however, it would be a waste to give up the entire Flats to greenery. The buildings that go up should meet the highest sustainability standards. Green roofs, grey water collection, sustainable energy, green materials.

An arena at LeBreton Flats achieves a lot of our modern goals by reducing the distance traveled by thousands of motorists 100 nights a year and bringing many of them to transit, thus increasing ridership. It would contribute to a dynamic downtown and the economy before and after events. It would provide a new landmark downtown.
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  #2830  
Old Posted Aug 31, 2019, 5:13 PM
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Bit rich of Baird to call for public investment into public space when his office wasn't willing to pony up while in charge of the file as minister.
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  #2831  
Old Posted Aug 31, 2019, 5:15 PM
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Originally Posted by J.OT13 View Post
I could not disagree more with these two former politicians. Ottawa already has plenty of massive green spaces in the central area: the Parkways, Parliament Hill, the Central Experimental Farm, the Greenbelt. All of them are great spaces and should, for the most part, be preserved, if not improved to a certain point (Taverns and Bistros, the SJAM Parkway Park are good initiatives).

LeBreton Flats however, is not like these other spaces. The area is serviced by both the Confederation and Trillium Lines, two stations. It's an important tract of land on our way to a denser, more sustainable city. It is the final piece of the downtown puzzle that can complete a continuous loop of activity, with Zibi, Vieux Hull, the Portage, Cartier du Musée, Civilization, the Byward Market, the CBD and back to LeBreton, it will truly connect the entire downtown of the National Capital Region.

Of course, some green space and open plazas should be included however, it would be a waste to give up the entire Flats to greenery. The buildings that go up should meet the highest sustainability standards. Green roofs, grey water collection, sustainable energy, green materials.

An arena at LeBreton Flats achieves a lot of our modern goals by reducing the distance traveled by thousands of motorists 100 nights a year and bringing many of them to transit, thus increasing ridership. It would contribute to a dynamic downtown and the economy before and after events. It would provide a new landmark downtown.
Agreed. We already have too much green space in the central part of the city, the last thing need is more of it.
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  #2832  
Old Posted Aug 31, 2019, 9:35 PM
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Agreed. We already have too much green space in the central part of the city, the last thing need is more of it.
Absolutely. This article comes out of the blue and sounds like a contrived attempt by has-beens to curry some sort of favour with the cheapest form of retail politics, "green space uber alles". Go back to retirement, guys, and let the city grow alrealy.
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  #2833  
Old Posted Sep 10, 2019, 5:23 PM
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How Baird and Manley could lead the charge for a renewed LeBreton Flats

Mohammed Adam
Updated: September 5, 2019


The plea for a comprehensive vision for Lebreton Flats by former federal ministers John Manley and John Baird is admirable. But it will get nowhere by itself, because the National Capital Commission is simply not for turning. It is too steeped in its ways to develop LeBreton Flats as an exciting public space for all. Still, there may be more this cross-party tag team can do to help save LeBreton.

The NCC, if left to its own devices, will turn LeBreton into a condo and office wasteland. And it will consider this a great achievement.

The idea that LeBreton needs a bold, public vision is not new. There have been such calls for years. Before the NCC launched its first plan for the site in 2004, many voices in the city opposed building condos, calling instead for an international competition for a public development. People dreamed of something like Ottawa’s version of Chicago’s Millennium Park, perhaps a mini Stanley Park or some such urban oasis on the Ottawa River. But, nothing doing. The idea that LeBreton should be developed into a showcase public space, the kind other cities boast of, is clearly foreign to the NCC.

The commission is not big on vision, and it shows in its renewed focus on housing development under new CEO Tobi Nussbaum, in the wake of the collapse of the RendezVous LeBreton partnership. The NCC’s mandate is to enhance and beautify the capital, but nobody there seems to ask how rows of housing, condo and office towers at LeBreton would do that. Who will visit Ottawa, go to LeBreton to revel in condos and office towers, then write home about a great experience? Nussbaum says only small parcels would be developed while yet another blueprint takes shape. But we know that once they start building, there’s no stopping them.

So, what to do?

The real mystery about LeBreton is why Ottawa residents haven’t taken up the cause as strongly and passionately as they did the Château Laurier redevelopment. With all due respect to the château, the real city-transforming issue is LeBreton. It is the one development that, properly done, can enthral people and change the face of Ottawa for generations. Yet residents are largely indifferent to its fate. It boggles the mind.

Manley and Baird have shown they care, and that it is important to not lose this one-of-a-kind opportunity to do something transformative at LeBreton. They are right to say that the simplest solution is for the federal government to declare that LeBreton is of significant national interest, in order to stop commercial development. The problem is that federal government intervention seems unlikely, at least not without significant pressure. Ottawa is not a city that governments, whether Liberal or Conservative, easily stand up for. Think of the failure to muster the courage to rebuild a crumbling 24 Sussex Drive. LeBreton is unlikely to be on any party’s must-do list.

What can help, but what Ottawa lacks now, is a champion at the federal cabinet table to go to bat for it, and make clear what a treasure LeBreton is to the capital – and indeed the nation. Minister of Canadian Heritage (and NCC minister) Pablo Rodriguez is a Quebecer who is not emotionally invested in Ottawa, let alone in LeBreton. Hometown MP and Environment Minister Catherine McKenna fits the bill, but is too preoccupied with climate change – and rightly so – to worry about LeBreton. And there is the small matter of a coming election nobody can call. Might the Conservatives help if they win? Not likely, based on past experience.

Baird and Manley can do much more than writing op-eds. It is hard to believe that city residents don’t care about LeBreton. It may just be that people are looking for a spark, someone to rouse them into action, and the two former ministers may just be the ones to lead that fight. I would be happy to sign on as their first volunteer recruit.

Mohammed Adam is an Ottawa writer.

https://ottawacitizen.com/opinion/co...lebreton-flats
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  #2834  
Old Posted Sep 10, 2019, 6:01 PM
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Didn't Baird move to Toronto?
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  #2835  
Old Posted Sep 10, 2019, 7:00 PM
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Originally Posted by Mille Sabords View Post
Absolutely. This article comes out of the blue and sounds like a contrived attempt by has-beens to curry some sort of favour with the cheapest form of retail politics, "green space uber alles". Go back to retirement, guys, and let the city grow alrealy.
You can never, ever, ever, ever, ever suggest or promise too much "green space" to the average Ottawan, especially the average politically-elite one.

The answer to everything, in their eyes, is moar green space.

I don't know if any of them have ever set foot in a city.
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  #2836  
Old Posted Sep 10, 2019, 7:22 PM
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Originally Posted by Uhuniau View Post
You can never, ever, ever, ever, ever suggest or promise too much "green space" to the average Ottawan, especially the average politically-elite one.

The answer to everything, in their eyes, is moar green space.

I don't know if any of them have ever set foot in a city.
We should not have green space in the urban area unless it has a purpose, not just another poorly maintained weed field.

If we need sports fields that will be used, by all means. If we want decorative public meeting places, sure. If we want to preserve special viewing points and to preserve special natural features, again yes. If we want to plant trees, to allow the urban area to breathe and be cooled in the summer, make sure there is enough room so they won't be dead from salt exposure and drought within a couple of years.

This all has to be strategically and well designed in urban areas, where we want to make sure the overall design is pedestrian friendly with enough people working and living in the area to make it lively and able to support local businesses.
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  #2837  
Old Posted Sep 11, 2019, 7:42 AM
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Ottawa lacks a substantial park in the central part of the city, so I would not oppose a significant park per se. The problem is governments will not put enough money in to make it a substantial destination and the Boring Industrial Complex will oppose anything fun or interesting.
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  #2838  
Old Posted Sep 11, 2019, 11:50 PM
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I agree. There's a huge difference between green space that's an empty field and public space that you'd find in urban Montreal or Paris.
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  #2839  
Old Posted Dec 12, 2019, 6:49 PM
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removed--it was in the wrong thread

Last edited by LeadingEdgeBoomer; Dec 12, 2019 at 7:03 PM.
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  #2840  
Old Posted Sep 7, 2020, 5:51 PM
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Originally Posted by waterloowarrior View Post
http://www.ncc-ccn.gc.ca/planning/ma...lebreton-flats

Redevelopment of LeBreton Flats
Exceptional Opportunity: Request for Qualifications
The National Capital Commission (NCC), as the steward and planner of Canada’s Capital, is seeking innovative proposals for the largest and most significant urban development site in the Capital.

The redeveloped LeBreton Flats is poised to become a signature destination for visitors to Canada’s Capital and a point of civic pride for its residents. This opportunity calls upon your abilities to reimagine this exceptional site and the potential experiences it can offer. We envisage a bold, new anchor institution that will welcome the public, serve as an economic driver, feature innovative use of the land, and bring design excellence, animation and a unique public experience to the nation’s capital. We are calling on the world’s best to come forth and make it a reality.

Location
The location is home to the Canadian War Museum, a multi-residential development, festival grounds, multi-use pathways, the Mill Street Brew Pub, the forthcoming National Holocaust Monument and other important sites of interest. The site is immediately adjacent to the soon-to-be completed Ottawa Light Rail Transit system. The NCC is now making approximately 9.3 hectares of these lands available for redevelopment, with the possible addition of 12.3 hectares of optional land.

We need to find a way to get the Senators Stadium downtown - this discussion needs a reboot, it's vital for the downtown look and vibe
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