Roads/Bridges projects/issues

[J.OT13]

Originally Posted by DarthVader_1961

Wonder why Dougie is being so generous all of a sudden?

Gotta be something in it for him.

After several scandals over the last term, he needs to buy himself some goodwill.

[Horus]

Originally Posted by Acajack

Is there even any dedicated funding for Pink from higher order governments that is available?

Now there's funding for Ch Pink.

From CTV

Federal government investing $35M in Gatineau roads

William Eltherington
CTV News Ottawa Digital Multi-Skilled Journalist

Published Dec. 11, 2023 2:51 p.m. EST

The federal government has announced a plan to invest $35 million for two main roads in the City of Gatineau.

In a news release on Monday, the Minister of Transport announced an agreement between the Government of Quebec and the National Capital Commission to finance ongoing road projects in the city. The combined funding will total approximately $70.4 million.

The funding will provide the city with some financial breathing room for the expansion of Chemin Pink. The 2.7 kilometres stretch of road will expanded from two to four lanes and is currently in its preparatory stage.

The city says road widening is necessary for traffic to move more smoothly and ensure the safety of pedestrians and cyclists.

The investment also includes improvements for the east and westbound Boulevard de la Vérendrye, one of the main arteries of the city. The work includes conducting required environmental studies (already partially funded under a previous financial assistance agreement) and aiding in the plans, specifications, and construction work for the widening of the western portion of the road.

...

[DTcrawler]

Originally Posted by Uhuniau

Also, no, they are not one and the same. There are numerous trips within urban Ottawa, particularly those which don't involve the Hintonburg to Kitchisippi western areas, where not only does it make zero sense to incorporate an LRT leg of a transit trip, it is often counter-productive in total travel time, let alone travel logic.

Most trips within urban Ottawa that involve an urban origin and destination are best made as bus-only trips, either on one bus, or with a transfer. That will decline a little bit when Phase 2 puts stations at Westboro and Kichisipi, and when the northy-southy lines reopens (whatever we are calling it this time around; I no longer get attached to the names or designations of the lines), but for urban transit within urban Ottawa, it's almost entirely buses.

They are part of the overall transit system, yes, and need to be, yes, and provide connections between the urban zones and suburban ones, yes, and to and from LRT, yes, but they also have an entire class of users and trips that are entirely located within the urban zone. We can't keep short-changing that transit market, and we sure as hell can't afford to make the transit experience any worse for urban bus riders, who already have to put up with crap schedule adherence and chronic lack of resources.

This exactly. It boggles my mind that in the region of the city where car ownership is the least desirable, where buses run packed at all times of the day, where you have by far the best prospect for ridership growth requiring minimal investment relative to other regions, that there isn't more talk around improving ACTUAL downtown transit. And no, I don't mean "downtown transit" by the definition used by councillors and local media, wherein that term refers to how we get people to and from downtown, but rather within downtown as you've said.

Most places I go are within a 10, 20, 30 minute walk which is entirely doable on a regular basis, but sometimes up to 40-50 min. And when you stack a bunch of those walks on a particularly busy day, it'd be nice to mix in a bus trip or two to save some time and energy. But that's not at all feasible when bus wait-times are often longer than the corresponding walk, and add in a no-show or two and it's no wonder it doesn't even cross the minds of my friends to use transit when we need to go somewhere.

Living in Toronto, it was second nature to hop on a streetcar for a few stops when the circumstances allowed, which was quite often. Of course, Ottawa isn't comparable in size to Toronto but I do not understand how it's too much to ask for a reliable, steady stream of buses going down corridors like Bank, Rideau, Somerset, Gladstone, Bronson, etc. When I say steady stream, I mean that I shouldn't have to check the GPS to see if a bus is arriving soon or if the wait time will be longer than the actual walk. It would be a GAMECHANGER for urban mobility and you'd no longer have ridiculous scenarios like I encounter with my friends where it's necessary to pull the car out of the 4th level of my building's parking garage just to drive 2-3km.

[CSYOWYEG]

Originally Posted by DTcrawler

Living in Toronto, it was second nature to hop on a streetcar for a few stops when the circumstances allowed, which was quite often. Of course, Ottawa isn't comparable in size to Toronto but I do not understand how it's too much to ask for a reliable, steady stream of buses going down corridors like Bank, Rideau, Somerset, Gladstone, Bronson, etc. When I say steady stream, I mean that I shouldn't have to check the GPS to see if a bus is arriving soon or if the wait time will be longer than the actual walk. It would be a GAMECHANGER for urban mobility and you'd no longer have ridiculous scenarios like I encounter with my friends where it's necessary to pull the car out of the 4th level of my building's parking garage just to drive 2-3km.

Completely agree. It shouldn't be out of the realm of possibility for our city to have just "every 10 minutes or better" service on certain routes (Bank, Rideau, Somerset, Gladstone, etc). Could even be "every 10 minutes or better" 7-7 and then "every 15 min or better 5-7am and 7-10pm" and then every 30 or better outside of that or something.

[J.OT13]

Originally Posted by Horus

Now there's funding for Ch Pink.

From CTV

Not super familiar with Pink's current state, but la Vérendrye is fine as is, no? Chemin Vanier needs it more than any other.

[DTcrawler]

I know this is far from the first time this issue has been raised but something seriously needs to be done about road painting in this city (and elsewhere in Ontario / Canada(?)), including the availability of crews/equipment to do the work and the type of paint that upper levels of gov allow us to use.

I'm bringing this up because of one particularly infuriating example, that being the Kirkwood/Byron intersection. The intersection was reconstructed and completed early-to-mid summer but sat unpainted for well over two months (maybe longer).

A couple of weeks ago, I was happy to see it finally being painted despite the ridiculous delay. However, less than two weeks later I drove by and found that the fresh paint had almost completely faded away! I couldn't believe my eyes and even wondered if I'd just imagined it being painted in the first place, until I noticed the very faint remnants of the markings upon closer examination. The markings were slightly more visible closer to the edges of the roadway where there's less vehicle travel.

I don't care if I sound dramatic here, but but trying to wrap my head around our inability to conquer an issue as simple road paint sometimes makes me feel physically ill.

How. The. Hell. is this acceptable?

[LRTeverywhere]

Originally Posted by DTcrawler

I know this is far from the first time this issue has been raised but something seriously needs to be done about road painting in this city (and elsewhere in Ontario / Canada(?)), including the availability of crews/equipment to do the work and the type of paint that upper levels of gov allow us to use.

I'm bringing this up because of one particularly infuriating example, that being the Kirkwood/Byron intersection. The intersection was reconstructed and completed early-to-mid summer but sat unpainted for well over two months (maybe longer).

A couple of weeks ago, I was happy to see it finally being painted despite the ridiculous delay. However, less than two weeks later I drove by and found that the fresh paint had almost completely faded away! I couldn't believe my eyes and even wondered if I'd just imagined it being painted in the first place, until I noticed the very faint remnants of the markings upon closer examination. The markings were slightly more visible closer to the edges of the roadway where there's less vehicle travel.

I don't care if I sound dramatic here, but but trying to wrap my head around our inability to conquer an issue as simple road paint sometimes makes me feel physically ill.

How. The. Hell. is this acceptable?

The city did acquire a new painting vehicle a couple seasons back and I believe put it into use this season with a new paint that should last longer and be more visible, however there is a caveat being that the good paint has to be applied during more ideal temperatures so late season like now is probably the old paint. Though it may also be different if its a contractor doing to the work and not the city

[DTcrawler]

Originally Posted by LRTeverywhere

The city did acquire a new painting vehicle a couple seasons back and I believe put it into use this season with a new paint that should last longer and be more visible, however there is a caveat being that the good paint has to be applied during more ideal temperatures so late season like now is probably the old paint. Though it may also be different if its a contractor doing to the work and not the city

I should've mentioned it was a contractor that did the work in this case. I did see the news about the city acquiring a new vehicle but missed the news about the new paint.

Maybe I'm oversimplifying it here but there has to be another jurisdiction on Earth that has mastered the road paint formula while balancing similar issues of 1) harsh climate and 2) environmental stewardship. In the words of Michael Andlauer, R&D is the best strategy (Rip-off & Duplicate).

One other peculiar thing I've noticed re: road paint, why is it that the small, "temporary" markings, used to delineate directions of travel before the solid line is put in, often last longer than the latter?

[Catenary]

Originally Posted by DTcrawler

I should've mentioned it was a contractor that did the work in this case. I did see the news about the city acquiring a new vehicle but missed the news about the new paint.

Maybe I'm oversimplifying it here but there has to be another jurisdiction on Earth that has mastered the road paint formula while balancing similar issues of 1) harsh climate and 2) environmental stewardship. In the words of Michael Andlauer, R&D is the best strategy (Rip-off & Duplicate).

One other peculiar thing I've noticed re: road paint, why is it that the small, "temporary" markings, used to delineate directions of travel before the solid line is put in, often last longer than the latter?

The small markings are tape. It's obscenely expensive, both to purchase and in labour to install at any great volume compared to regular markings. Longevity is highly dependent on installation technique and weather.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by J.OT13

Not super familiar with Pink's current state, but la Vérendrye is fine as is, no? Chemin Vanier needs it more than any other.

I guess I missed this.

La Vérendrye's road surface is fine but it goes from four divided lanes to two lanes only from Gréber to Montée Paiement. After Paiement it's four divided lanes again all the way to Labrosse.

The two-lane stretch from Gréber to Paiement can be extremely congested at times.

It's also supposed to be extended from Labrosse to Lorrain as part of the second phase of this project.

[wingman]

Originally Posted by Acajack

I guess I missed this.

La Vérendrye's road surface is fine but it goes from four divided lanes to two lanes only from Gréber to Montée Paiement. After Paiement it's four divided lanes again all the way to Labrosse.

The two-lane stretch from Gréber to Paiement can be extremely congested at times.

It's also supposed to be extended from Labrosse to Lorrain as part of the second phase of this project.

I would also suggest the section from Lafrance to Main heading east is one of the worst in the city (especially now that Main and la Gappe have been tidied up). I don't know if this money will go to helping with that, but I sure hope so.

Also agree, the single lane from Mte Paiement to Ernest-Gaboury makes no sense and does cause slow-downs during busy times. Rarely is it stop and go though (in my experience).

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by wingman

I would also suggest the section from Lafrance to Main heading east is one of the worst in the city (especially now that Main and la Gappe have been tidied up). I don't know if this money will go to helping with that, but I sure hope so.

That's true. When I said the road surface was fine I was thinking of the stretch from the Pont Alonzo to Montée Paiement. I don't go that far east very often.

[Kelnoz]

Originally Posted by Acajack

It's also supposed to be extended from Labrosse to Lorrain as part of the second phase of this project.

Why the extension, isn't it a bit redundant with the highway being right there?

Is there plans to develop the section between the existing development and Lorrain?

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by Kelnoz

Why the extension, isn't it a bit redundant with the highway being right there?

Is there plans to develop the section between the existing development and Lorrain?

Yes, pretty sure the entire area between Labrosse and Lorrain south of A-50 is slated for a lot of development. It's one of the last big chunks of land still to be developed in this part of Gatineau. I think maybe the city is eager for it to start because in recent years so much has been focused on the west in Plateau-Aylmer, and infrastructure is getting strained over there (and also only very slowly improved).

Not that I want more traffic and congestion in part of the city but we have decent infrastructure capacity that is far from being maxed out with Autoroute 50 (a full expressway unlike Allumettières) plus the Rapibus running all the way to Lorrain now.

In terms of an extended La Vérendrye being redundant because of A-50, I wouldn't say that's the case because the highway isn't "right there". You have to go 2 km up Labrosse and 2 km down Lorrain (or vice versa), both two-lane roads, and then drive 3-4 km on the A-50, to get to the same point that would be only a few km apart if La Vérendrye was built.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by wingman

Also agree, the single lane from Mte Paiement to Ernest-Gaboury makes no sense and does cause slow-downs during busy times. Rarely is it stop and go though (in my experience).

Weird that they didn't make that segment four divided lanes in the first place. It's got the hospital along it which is a major trip generator (patients and staff) and people from all over the city and region use La Vérendrye to and from the A-50 to access it.

[Kelnoz]

Originally Posted by Acajack

Yes, pretty sure the entire area between Labrosse and Lorrain south of A-50 is slated for a lot of development. It's one of the last big chunks of land still to be developed in this part of Gatineau. I think maybe the city is eager for it to start because in recent years so much has been focused on the west in Plateau-Aylmer, and infrastructure is getting strained over there (and also only very slowly improved).

That makes sense, thanks for the info!

Originally Posted by Acajack

In terms of an extended La Vérendrye being redundant because of A-50, I wouldn't say that's the case because the highway isn't "right there". You have to go 2 km up Labrosse and 2 km down Lorrain (or vice versa), both two-lane roads, and then drive 3-4 km on the A-50, to get to the same point that would be only a few km apart if La Vérendrye was built.

I don't disagree that extending La Vérendrye makes sense if you want to develop the area, but your numbers are double the actual distance.

On Labrosse there's 2km between St-René and A50, so you can't be more than 1km away from a crossing point. On Lorrain it's even shorter, and La Vérendrye is barely 500m away from A50. We're talking about extremely niche trips being shortened here.

[Horus]

Originally Posted by J.OT13

Not super familiar with Pink's current state, but la Vérendrye is fine as is, no? Chemin Vanier needs it more than any other.

Pink was recently 'twinned' from Ch de la Montagne to Boul des Grives. It has 2 lanes each direction, median separated, with MUP and MUP connections.

The plan, as I understand it, is to continue the twinning up to, or near to, Ch Vanier.

I drive Pink often as an alternative to des Allumettières. At a minimum, what it does need is a turn lane and bus bay at du Blizzard (and maybe a signalized crosswalk?) and some kind of management at the intersection of Vanier. A roundabout would probably work well there, but traffic lights would do the trick as well.

At this stage, it's probably overkill to twin the whole roadway to Vanier, however, if housing development is going to continue along the north side, westward towards Rue du Vernon, then perhaps the capacity is needed. Fwiw, STO seems to running more buses along segments of Pink than they used to.

[J.OT13]

Originally Posted by Acajack

Yes, pretty sure the entire area between Labrosse and Lorrain south of A-50 is slated for a lot of development. It's one of the last big chunks of land still to be developed in this part of Gatineau. I think maybe the city is eager for it to start because in recent years so much has been focused on the west in Plateau-Aylmer, and infrastructure is getting strained over there (and also only very slowly improved).

Not that I want more traffic and congestion in part of the city but we have decent infrastructure capacity that is far from being maxed out with Autoroute 50 (a full expressway unlike Allumettières) plus the Rapibus running all the way to Lorrain now.

In terms of an extended La Vérendrye being redundant because of A-50, I wouldn't say that's the case because the highway isn't "right there". You have to go 2 km up Labrosse and 2 km down Lorrain (or vice versa), both two-lane roads, and then drive 3-4 km on the A-50, to get to the same point that would be only a few km apart if La Vérendrye was built.

It's about time. I always found it strange how inconsistent the build-form is in the east of Gatineau.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by Horus

Pink was recently 'twinned' from Ch de la Montagne to Boul des Grives. It has 2 lanes each direction, median separated, with MUP and MUP connections.

The plan, as I understand it, is to continue the twinning up to, or near to, Ch Vanier.

I drive Pink often as an alternative to des Allumettières. At a minimum, what it does need is a turn lane and bus bay at du Blizzard (and maybe a signalized crosswalk?) and some kind of management at the intersection of Vanier. A roundabout would probably work well there, but traffic lights would do the trick as well.

At this stage, it's probably overkill to twin the whole roadway to Vanier, however, if housing development is going to continue along the north side, westward towards Rue du Vernon, then perhaps the capacity is needed. Fwiw, STO seems to running more buses along segments of Pink than they used to.

Congestion is almost certainly worse on La Vérendrye between Gréber and Paiement than on Pink on the stretch to Vanier.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by J.OT13

It's about time. I always found it strange how inconsistent the build-form is in the east of Gatineau.

It's the result of having a bunch of independent municipalities (Gatineau, Pointe-Gatineau, Touraine, Limbour, Templeton, Templeton-Est, etc.) prior to the mid 70s, though it's grown together quite a bit since then and there are way fewer gaps now.

It's only really that area where the La Vérendrye extension would pass, and a bit of land around La Gappe and La Cité that remains until the whole area south of the A-50 is filled in.

That was the plan - to keep all or most new development south of the A-50, within a "périmètre d'urbanisation". Though if I look at recent development in the area around Lorrain north of the A-50, it doesn't seem like it's always respected. Perhaps some of the land up there had grandfathered development rights.

Another thing is that it's a fairly recent thing for development in the Outaouais to be dominated by the western zone (Plateau-Aylmer). There was always development everywhere but in the 80s and 90s it was very predominantly happening in the area east of the Gatineau River. Aided by the presence of A-50.

Remember that Boul. des Allumettières did not exist and this held back development in the Plateau and Aylmer which weren't easy to get in and out of. Now development has exploded there and once again they're not so easy to access.