Canadian Retail Thread

[LeftCoaster]

Originally Posted by yaletown_fella

Who knows, with the 1 Bloor west proposal setting a new precendent, the hudson bays center could be demolished and redeveloped into a new vertical shopping center and mixed use tower.

Is the "pedestrianization" of Oakridge going through? I don't see how it's financially lucrative. I suppose there are condos included in the plan but I dont see why the owners wouldn't just demolish the parking structure and replace it with a huge underground lot and towers.

Hunh? There's already a 35 storey office building and a 41 storey hotel/residence on that plot. They arent going anywhere.

As for oakridge, it is a massive redevelopment, certainly not just a pedestrianization.

[Nathan]

Originally Posted by Trevor3

I didn't know that, thanks though! I could have sworn I remember them being sold to a US company a while back... oh well, good to know they're still Canadian.

Your memory is also correct; they were owned by Wendy's for a while, but Wendy's spun them off and listed them on the TSX, and it's now become a publicly traded Canadian company.

[telyou]

Originally Posted by Nathan

Your memory is also correct; they were owned by Wendy's for a while, but Wendy's spun them off and listed them on the TSX, and it's now become a publicly traded Canadian company.

It was never "acquired" by Wendy's. The two merged. Ron Joyce, who is Canadian, and was the sole owner of Tim Hortons, was in fact the majority shareholder of the newly merged companies. He was a bigger shareholder then the Thomas family. The two companies functioned as separate entities. Wendy's later decided to spin off their shares in an IPO.

[SpongeG]

HBC announces $2.9B deal to buy U.S. retailer Saks; plans to open 7 stores in Canada

TORONTO -- Hudson's Bay Co. says it will open up to seven full-line Saks stores in Canada and about two dozen locations under a discount banner once it completes a US$2.9-billion friendly deal to acquire the U.S. luxury retailer.
"We're going to move as quickly as we can," Richard Baker, HBC's chairman and chief executive, told analysts during a conference call on Monday.
"We think there's a lot of opportunity for us to accomplish that rollout relatively quickly."

...

Read more: http://www.ctvnews.ca/business/hbc-a...#ixzz2aRvw9dUs

[eternallyme]

It seems in Canada retail is all converging in about 12 to 15 locations - a mix of downtown and the strongest suburban areas - and leaving the other suburban malls in the dust. I think a lot of them are going to die out soon...

[SpongeG]

the malls? or the retailers?

[esquire]

Originally Posted by eternallyme

It seems in Canada retail is all converging in about 12 to 15 locations - a mix of downtown and the strongest suburban areas - and leaving the other suburban malls in the dust. I think a lot of them are going to die out soon...

Hadn't really thought of it in those terms but it's true. Certainly looking at the prairie cities, you can see how virtually every one went from having a downtown shopping area and several suburban shopping malls on more or less equal footing back in the 1980s, to the current situation where each city has one or two super-dominant regional malls (WEM, Chinook, Polo Park, Cornwall) while a lot of the other once-major players have regressed into a local community shopping centre that draws only from the immediate area (Londonderry, North Hill, Garden City, Southland).

This seems to be a Canada-wide trend. Considering that retail spending has increased dramatically over the past 20 years, it is curious that the number of major retail destination areas has decreased over time to the point where there are no more than a handful of them across the entire country.

[Chadillaccc]

Originally Posted by esquire

Hadn't really thought of it in those terms but it's true. Certainly looking at the prairie cities, you can see how virtually every one went from having a downtown shopping area and several suburban shopping malls on more or less equal footing back in the 1980s, to the current situation where each city has one or two super-dominant regional malls (WEM, Chinook, Polo Park, Cornwall) while a lot of the other once-major players have regressed into a local community shopping centre that draws only from the immediate area (Londonderry, North Hill, Garden City, Southland).

This seems to be a Canada-wide trend. Considering that retail spending has increased dramatically over the past 20 years, it is curious that the number of major retail destination areas has decreased over time to the point where there are no more than a handful of them across the entire country.

I can't speak for the others, but I know The Core, Market Mall, and Sunridge are all pretty popular malls in Calgary. I'd put The Core and Chinook on equal footing.

[eternallyme]

Originally Posted by esquire

Hadn't really thought of it in those terms but it's true. Certainly looking at the prairie cities, you can see how virtually every one went from having a downtown shopping area and several suburban shopping malls on more or less equal footing back in the 1980s, to the current situation where each city has one or two super-dominant regional malls (WEM, Chinook, Polo Park, Cornwall) while a lot of the other once-major players have regressed into a local community shopping centre that draws only from the immediate area (Londonderry, North Hill, Garden City, Southland).

This seems to be a Canada-wide trend. Considering that retail spending has increased dramatically over the past 20 years, it is curious that the number of major retail destination areas has decreased over time to the point where there are no more than a handful of them across the entire country.

Indeed, a lot of former regional malls are now just community-level at best, while the 15 or so in Canada mentioned have jumped to super-regional levels.

Interestingly, there is no real location preference. In some cities, that dominant location is downtown (i.e. Ottawa), in others it is in the inner city (i.e. Winnipeg, Calgary), and others it is in the distant suburban areas (i.e. Edmonton, Montreal). Toronto is an exception in that it can sustain about 5 dominant retail areas - one downtown and the rest mostly in the suburbs - but the other ones are all struggling.

[miketoronto]

I am sorry guys, but Canada does not know and hopefully will not know the term "dead mall". I just drove by a dead mall in the USA the other day, and Canada just does not have the that kind of retail decay.

I can only speak for Toronto, but all the malls are doing well. Are some places more regional and popular? For sure. But that does not mean the other places are left to rot.

But our malls even the less popular ones are not doing badly at all.

We just have to make sure we do not over build retail like the USA did.

The only troubling trend in Canada is that some suburban malls are starting to become destinations for retail, that would have normally only located downtown even a decade ago.
You see this particularly in Calgary where many big names choose to have their only Calgary location at Chinook instead of downtown.
Or in Toronto where Yorkdale has been getting a number of the new to the region stores in the last few years. This normally would not have been the case, and it is a little troubling.

[vid]

All the malls are doing well? We have totally vacant, abandoned malls here too you know.

[RyLucky]

Originally Posted by Chadillaccc

I can't speak for the others, but I know The Core, Market Mall, and Sunridge are all pretty popular malls in Calgary. I'd put The Core and Chinook on equal footing.

I can't speak for other Canadian centres either, but I'd say that all of Calgary's malls, even Calgary's crappy malls (Northhill, Northland, Westbrook, etc) are quite healthy. I'd love to see any of these redeveloped for more mixed/urban uses, but I'm sure they are happy to keep chugging along.

Malls in Calgary that have a real chance of attracting first-to-market international retailers are Chinook, the Core, Market Mall, Southcentre, and Sunridge (probably in that order). The Core serves a unique market, being more upscale and urban than the others. Chinook is in the midst of planning yet another massive expansion that will include a variety of uses. There are a handful of newer, unconventional malls (ie. Aspen/85th, Airport, Marda Loop, Seton...) that may also attract first to market tenants.

What Calgary really needs though, is more urban-format retailers in the inner city. Currently, we don't really have development like Vancouver's Cambie Street (the area with Canadian Tire, Whole Foods, etc), which I think could really improve inner city living were it built in, say, Calgary's Beltline. Stephen Ave has some that are also part of the Core (ie Holt Renfrew, Indigo, etc); 17th ave is just starting to catch on (ie Best buy); but it's going to take more to really establish inner city BRZs (business revitalization zones) as shopping destinations. Currently, the Beltline, Kensington, Bridgeland, Inglewood, Marda Loop, Renfrew, Bowness, and International Ave are good places for food, boutique shopping, or being a pedestrian, but retailers here are losing out to the big malls. Hopefully this changes as inner city population density increases.

[eternallyme]

Originally Posted by miketoronto

I am sorry guys, but Canada does not know and hopefully will not know the term "dead mall". I just drove by a dead mall in the USA the other day, and Canada just does not have the that kind of retail decay.

I can only speak for Toronto, but all the malls are doing well. Are some places more regional and popular? For sure. But that does not mean the other places are left to rot.

But our malls even the less popular ones are not doing badly at all.

We just have to make sure we do not over build retail like the USA did.

The only troubling trend in Canada is that some suburban malls are starting to become destinations for retail, that would have normally only located downtown even a decade ago.
You see this particularly in Calgary where many big names choose to have their only Calgary location at Chinook instead of downtown.
Or in Toronto where Yorkdale has been getting a number of the new to the region stores in the last few years. This normally would not have been the case, and it is a little troubling.

Really? What is so bad about that? You have a deep anti-suburban mindset...

[kwoldtimer]

Originally Posted by miketoronto

I am sorry guys, but Canada does not know and hopefully will not know the term "dead mall". I just drove by a dead mall in the USA the other day, and Canada just does not have the that kind of retail decay.
I can only speak for Toronto, but all the malls are doing well. Are some places more regional and popular? For sure. But that does not mean the other places are left to rot.

But our malls even the less popular ones are not doing badly at all.

We just have to make sure we do not over build retail like the USA did.

The only troubling trend in Canada is that some suburban malls are starting to become destinations for retail, that would have normally only located downtown even a decade ago.
You see this particularly in Calgary where many big names choose to have their only Calgary location at Chinook instead of downtown.
Or in Toronto where Yorkdale has been getting a number of the new to the region stores in the last few years. This normally would not have been the case, and it is a little troubling.

Really? Kitchener had two shopping malls in the Downtown (Market Square and King Centre) that both died deader than the Monty Python parrot and had to be converted to other uses. In the case of Market Square, the remnant left in retail space remains a near-death experience (latest to close - Canada Post!).

[isaidso]

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

We had one of the new format Tim Horton's stores in Moncton for several months now. Also. there are several Timmies/Cold Stone Creamery combo stores in southeastern NB. They have been present for a couple of years I think.

Perhaps they should just buy Cold Stone Creamery.

[ue]

Originally Posted by miketoronto

I am sorry guys, but Canada does not know and hopefully will not know the term "dead mall". I just drove by a dead mall in the USA the other day, and Canada just does not have the that kind of retail decay.

I can only speak for Toronto, but all the malls are doing well. Are some places more regional and popular? For sure. But that does not mean the other places are left to rot.

But our malls even the less popular ones are not doing badly at all.

We just have to make sure we do not over build retail like the USA did.

The only troubling trend in Canada is that some suburban malls are starting to become destinations for retail, that would have normally only located downtown even a decade ago.
You see this particularly in Calgary where many big names choose to have their only Calgary location at Chinook instead of downtown.
Or in Toronto where Yorkdale has been getting a number of the new to the region stores in the last few years. This normally would not have been the case, and it is a little troubling.

Then no, you do not know whether or not the entire nation-state of Canada is without a single dead mall. "Canada" exists beyond Niagara Falls and Cottage Country, in case you forgot. Edmonton has some malls that are near the end of their life expectancy -- Abottsfield Mall and Capilano (which is partially being torn down and turned into a shopping centre). Can't imagine the entirety of the GTA is without a single dead mall though, but you'd likely know better as a local.

[TownGuy]

One I can think of in the GTA is Whitby Mall. There's a passport office and couple name stores but that's about it. Really eerie place.

[brithgob]

Regina has had two malls, Normanview and Sherwood, "de-mall" which removes most or all of the interior corridor to leave a cluster of stores with their own entrances.

[Ramako]

How's Cloverdale Mall in Etobicoke doing these days?

[canarob]

While the GTA has a few dead malls (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honeydale_Mall), I don't think it has as many compared to smaller metros because we have far fewer malls per capita. Aside from Vaughan Mills and an outlet mall that just opened in Halton, nothing has been built since the 80s while population has surged. Power centres have never really filled the gap, and pretty much every mall in the GTA is either renovating or expanding since most of these locations are considered prime.

Also, much of the space that would have been using for "traditional retail" is now "ethnic retail." Market Village in Markham used to be a "traditional mall," but it's been a "Chinese Mall" for many years. It's currently being redeveloped in an attempt to attract a mix of both types of retail, but presently these types of retail do not typically coexist. So, you end up with cities like Markham with 350,000 people with only one major traditional mall (Markville). I'm not sure this is something you would see elsewhere in Canada. From my experience, even cities with 100,000 people tend to have two traditional malls, even if one is a "dirt mall."