General Phoenix Metro Discussion Thread

[combusean]

Sprouts and AJs aren't really on my radar screen because of the high costs.

I guess I should have prefaced my fears for people without cars--losing a grocery store you can walk to is ruinous, especially in this heat.

[exit2lef]

Originally Posted by combusean

Sprouts and AJs aren't really on my radar screen because of the high costs.

I guess I should have prefaced my fears for people without cars--losing a grocery store you can walk to is ruinous, especially in this heat.

AJ’s is expensive. Sprouts is not so much, especially if you take advantage of their sales. What’s helpful about the two Fry’s and AJ’s is that they’re located within a block or two of light rail stations.

[Obadno]

I guess I’m confused as to why you think just because these stores are being sold that it’s doom and gloom?

I’m sure it’s going to take a year or a few years to finalize maybe they’ll become a local chain or a new chain breaking into the Arizona market, I don’t see why this was presented as some massive disaster? There’s only growing population and demand in central Phoenix

[combusean]

I may have gotten a little worried prematurely, but I suppose regardless of what happens Phoenix probably wouldn't be worse or better off than any other city.

[Buckeye Native 001]

All three of the Safeways in Flagstaff are apparently going to be bought by whoever owns Piggly Wiggly. We have one Frys (could probably support two) and while Safeway is usually more expensive, they at least have pickup. For whatever idiotic reason, our Frys still doesn't.

[azcats]

I love all the photos put on this site. Updated/new and old. Especially, from way back - although ...I don't go back that far. You talk about the mergers...supermarkets. At the corner of Scottsdale and Camelback: During my time - A.J. BAYLESS (super market)...Joe Hunts...Goldwater's...and a few small shops - in between. THAT was your Fashion Square. Bashas was at Scottsdale and Indian School. AJs...HA! The $14 pie they sell there...go down to Albertsons on Indian Bend - the same pie goes for $4! It's a free country but, don't know how it will affect up here in Prescott. There is just Fry's and Safeway (Von's, Albertsons, and Safeway). There is also a Trader Joes. Sprouts and some organic store - I rarely go to those two - maybe - for one thing. Years ago, Hagens(sp?) out of Seattle(?) bought up all the Albertsons in our area in So Cal. Very expensive groceries - and didn't have what people wanted. I guess they thought people would pay those prices. Wrong. No one went there - it was a disaster! Within like six months - all closed up - and I believe Hagens actually filed for bankruptcy. All the stores ended up being converted to Smart and Final. No good. I don't want Safeway(Albertsons/Vons) to go.

[WarrenBuffett2024]

HEAR ME OUT: As a city lover and skyscraper lover, I find this conversation regarding Phoenix vs other cities fascinating. I've been to Austin and Nashville, albeit for two-day visits at each place.

Austin and Nashville both beat my expectations, but Austin seems considerably more "real" of a city than Nashville. The number of badass hotels in both Austin and Nashville is insane, especially Nashville. Quickly after leaving downtown, in Nashville, things turn almost rural. Austin, however, has a more developed sprawl and more heavily populated suburbs. Austin's MSA population is a little less than half of Phoenix's MSA population. Nashville is like 40% of Phoenix's MSA population, and even that is a stretch. Downtown Austin felt a little like Brickell (Downtown Miami) to me, just in the sense that the towers are awkwardly tall for their surrounding area. In Austin and Miami alike, you'll go from dense skyscraper blocks to three-story buildings and a McDonalds (so to speak) in a few short blocks. Opposite of say a NYC.

I have never been to Phoenix mainly because, as a kid, I always associated the size of a city with the strength of its skyline / # of skyscrapers. I overlooked PHX because I assumed the lack of highrises meant it wasn't too good of a city. I obviously now realize how wrong I was. Sitting here today, having visited Austin, Nashville, and planning of visiting Phoenix, I bet the city I would like most is PHX.

[WarrenBuffett2024]

If you guys were running Phoenix, what would you do to make it more desirable? A couple of skyscrapers would definitely be badass.

[MMDelon]

I would develop the downtown core if I was running Phoenix. I would create an entertainment district that leads into the arts districts. Downtown Phoenix has a great thing going for it with Roosevelt Row. If they can Margret T Hence Park, Roosevelt Row, Chase Field/Footprint Center/ Convention Center it will be a phenomenal downtown corridor. This way you have options.

[AZSunHiker]

WarrenBuffet2024,
Since you've never been to Phoenix before, a word of advice so you don't make the mistake others have made: the most popular nightlife and social scene is in Old Town Scottsdale not downtown Phoenix. Incidentally, this is one of the big reasons why downtown Phoenix has such a small skyline. It is in competition with several other places around the metro for entertainment, tourism, nightlife, etc.

[PHX31]

Originally Posted by AZSunHiker

WarrenBuffet2024,
Since you've never been to Phoenix before, a word of advice so you don't make the mistake others have made: the most popular nightlife and social scene is in Old Town Scottsdale not downtown Phoenix. Incidentally, this is one of the big reasons why downtown Phoenix has such a small skyline. It is in competition with several other places around the metro for entertainment, tourism, nightlife, etc.

It's actually a bit more spread out than just Old Town Scottsdale. Roosevelt Row, parts of Downtown Phoenix, North Central through Arcadia (not sure how to explain it), Mill Avenue in Tempe all are decent, and all kind of pull their own part of the pie. You're right though, downtown Phoenix isn't the main central hub if that's what he's expecting.

[combusean]

Originally Posted by AZSunHiker

WarrenBuffet2024,
Since you've never been to Phoenix before, a word of advice so you don't make the mistake others have made: the most popular nightlife and social scene is in Old Town Scottsdale not downtown Phoenix. Incidentally, this is one of the big reasons why downtown Phoenix has such a small skyline. It is in competition with several other places around the metro for entertainment, tourism, nightlife, etc.

This wrong or at best a narrow opinion.

[exit2lef]

Originally Posted by WarrenBuffett2024

If you guys were running Phoenix, what would you do to make it more desirable? A couple of skyscrapers would definitely be badass.

Skyscrapers are nice, but I'd put a higher priority on some improvements at ground level

• Eliminate single family zoning
• Eliminate parking minimums and parking podiums
• Eliminate drive-thrus, especially along the light rail corridor
• Eliminate right turn on red, especially is areas of high pedestrian volume
• Limit arterial streets to a maximum of two lanes in each direction
• Add protected bikes lanes wherever feasible
• Increase light rail service frequency and accelerate its expansion
• Restore intercity passenger rail service and add commuter rail
• Increase bus frequency and hours of service
• Add more neighhorhood parks that people can walk or bike to
• Transfer Sky Harbor Airport from the City of Phoenix to a regional port authority
• Revisit FAA height limits

[combusean]

I'm reluctant to add anything that's not going to be taken up by others.

But if there's one thing that needs to be fundamentally redone in Phoenix it's sidewalk shade and road diets.

I'm pretty sure the rest of what everyone here wants will also come after and hopefully I'll live long enough to see it.

[exit2lef]

Originally Posted by combusean

But if there's one thing that needs to be fundamentally redone in Phoenix it's sidewalk shade and road diets.

Yes, how could I forget shade. That's something Phoenix should do well but doesn't. Tree planting on a massive scale is part of the solution, but so are design changes. It's amazing how many local buildings are designed by architects elsewhere who incorporate decorative but useless features like slatted awnings. Local building codes should maximize shade whenever feasible. Road diets are linked to shade. The wider the road, the less of its surface will be shaded by buildings, so trees along the sidewalk, or preferably in a landscaped buffer between the sidewalk and the street, are needed.

[Obadno]

Originally Posted by WarrenBuffett2024

If you guys were running Phoenix, what would you do to make it more desirable? A couple of skyscrapers would definitely be badass.

Mass subsidizing of grass (real) and broad leafy trees for shade, and shade structures and misters wherever possible.

- "BUT WHAT ABOUT WATER" - some idiot probably

1. Those things are not the big water users or wasters in the state
2. Furthermore, I wouldn't care if they were.

Making the city cooler, prettier, more livable is a GOOD use of water.

[Obadno]

Originally Posted by AZSunHiker

WarrenBuffet2024,
Since you've never been to Phoenix before, a word of advice so you don't make the mistake others have made: the most popular nightlife and social scene is in Old Town Scottsdale not downtown Phoenix. Incidentally, this is one of the big reasons why downtown Phoenix has such a small skyline. It is in competition with several other places around the metro for entertainment, tourism, nightlife, etc.

At this point I would say that downtown, Tempe and Scottsdale are all about tied for nightlife now. Scottsdale is far and away the winner when it comes to dining and fine dining, but I think downtown will come roaring up behind it soon.

[muertecaza]

Yeah, I feel like a focus on trees/shade would go a long way to encouraging all the other urban design priorities. My favorite shade structure: thicc 300 ft. buildings

[PHX31]

Originally Posted by Obadno

Mass subsidizing of grass (real) and broad leafy trees for shade, and shade structures and misters wherever possible.

- "BUT WHAT ABOUT WATER" - some idiot probably

1. Those things are not the big water users or wasters in the state
2. Furthermore, I wouldn't care if they were.

Making the city cooler, prettier, more livable is a GOOD use of water.

Remember pictures from the olden days of all of the canals and the giant shade trees everywhere? I think they were cottonwoods. At some point way back when someone got the idea that they drank up/wasted too much water and they ripped them all out. I think there are still one or two legacy trees around Central Phoenix. Too bad.

Now adays... adding a bunch of trees is easier said than done. Sure, there are a ton of programs out there and landscaping requirements that try to beef up the trees. But there are usually restrictions on what you can plant (i.e. desert types that are low water usage and drought resistant). The problems are that you still have to irrigate and maintain (easier said than done), these trees don't provide tremendous amounts of shade compared to others, and they get crummily maintained or have shallow root systems and eventually fall in summer thunderstorm wind events. Up kind of near where I live, the City's roadway improvement project about 20 years ago planted a ton of Palo Verdes along the road. They grew fine for a while, but I bet at least 50% - 75% of them have either died or blown over in storms at this point.

[Buckeye Native 001]

Shade, shade, shade.

I'm out in the far East Valley through next week. Driving around east Mesa and Gilbert, hardly any shade trees, or other Sonoran-native greenery for that matter. The only trees I see with any regularity in my parents' subdivision is palm trees.