LOS ANGELES | Downtown Project Rundown 4.0

[LosAngelesBeauty]

Originally Posted by Vangelist

So now Helen Mirren is being used as some sort of litmus test of what downtown should attract as we wish the homeless would just vanish elsewhere, inconvenient as they are to our neighborhood walks? This thread never stops. I love the perpetual conscious and otherwise classist statements!

Speaking of people walking, the art walk last night, just from observing it on a street level as I went across the street to eat something, seemed really dead - especially from its peak crowds in oh, 2008-2009. I think it was already starting to wane last year with the decision to try and make it quarterly, and the dead baby freak accident-incident killed off whatever was left of its status as a monthly event. Few local artists actually made money from it, and it's mostly a street festival thing now that restaurant owners exploit. Without the food trucks everywhere it almost looked like just another night in the city which is saying something positive actually: you don't need a monthly "event" to see people walking the streets of the Old Bank District. At this point in downtown's redevelopment, every night in this area of town is filled with pedestrians and patrons of local businesses, and the weekends are the busiest. The art walk served its purpose, and I'm not sure if it's even needed anymore; it was still somewhat depressing to see how few people were milling around compared to years past. I guess that era, exciting as it was to see people flock to and rediscover the city center, is now over

I wish the Historic Core had a movie theater larger than the Downtown Independent; I'm still missing the Laemmle on Fig. The Regal only serves one corner of downtown, with one type of film (commercially big) for one type of audience; the DI features really small pictures. We're missing that venue that features the medium-sized releases

One of those parking lots, especially at 4th and Spring, could be turned into a 4-screen Laemmle theater with possible office/hotel on top of it...that would be nice...

[Vangelist]

One of those parking lots, especially at 4th and Spring, could be turned into a 4-screen Laemmle theater with possible office/hotel on top of it...that would be nice...

A stone's throw from the new park? Great location!

[Illithid Dude]

Originally Posted by BrighamYen

One of those parking lots, especially at 4th and Spring, could be turned into a 4-screen Laemmle theater with possible office/hotel on top of it...that would be nice...

Is this insider information or are you just spitballing?

[pwright1]

Originally Posted by pesto

Since we can't get off deparmtent stores (whatever they may be), I notice that Glendale is getting a Bloomies next to Americana and that the Galleria is getting a major makeover which will leave space for another large tenant. Given the distance from DT LA to Glendale (and Pasadena), this may make upscale shopping DT less likely for the short-term.

btw, the Galleria is not doing nearly enough; they need to open to the street and get it over with.

I know I'm dreaming but it would be nice if they put a flagship Nordstrom on Broadway like the one in dt Seattle or dt San Francisco. You know, the grand piano, the spa, the shoe shine, the Grill and Cafe restaurants, At Home and full fledged men and women depts. The Nordstrom stores here in LA are tiny and lack many of the depts I am so use to. The Grove, Westside Pavillion, Glendale and Santa Monica are all so tiny and so disappointing. Topanga is just ok but who wants to drive all the way out there.

[citywatch]

Originally Posted by pwright1

I know I'm dreaming but it would be nice if they put a flagship Nordstrom on Broadway like the one in dt Seattle or dt San Francisco.....The Nordstrom stores here in LA are tiny and lack many of the depts I am so use to.

since I'm guessing that you & alki are native to seattle, & are posting to this thread right now, I became very curious about the situation with Nordstroms up north, so I took a google streetview tour.

I'm surprised that nordstrom's main store doesn't date back to the beginning but actually is relatively new....


maps.google.com

In 1998, Nordstrom replaced its downtown Seattle store with a new flagship location in the former Frederick & Nelson building across the street. At 383,000 square feet (35,600 m2), the downtown Seattle location is the chain's largest store. By contrast, the smallest Nordstrom store (as of September 2008) opened in 1980 in Salem, Oregon and has a total area of just under 72,000 square feet (6,700 m2).

^ wikipedia says that the largest store til 1998 was the one built in SF in 1989. for comparison, the macys store in dtla, which was built in the early 1970s as a now defunct store called the Broadway, is listed at 250,000 sf. That store would be considered large by the standards of the newer stores built in samo or at the grove.

vangelist mentions comments being "classist", & I'm not sure if he's therefore bothered by them or not. btw, my pointing out helen mirren was to show the irony & surprise of a person like that visiting a lounge in an out of the way, mostly gritty part of LA. If anyone is unhappy about class-ism or sounding like a classist, then keep in mind that a city with all the benefits & pluses that are discussed throughout this thread----including nice dept stores, restaurants, laemelle theaters, art walks that don't eventually die off----- are almost impossible without lots of ppl living or working in...or visiting...a hood who are well above the income level of homeless or grifters. you lack the type of ppl that make up a big part of almost all the great cities of the world, & you not only don't get a big nice store on broadway, or elsewhere in dtla, you end up with.....

On May 26, 2011, Nordstrom announced that they will be closing the downtown Indianapolis, Indiana Circle Center Mall location due to declining business at Downtown site.

^ I don't envision a time----at least before most of us are old & gray (or for forumers like jdrcrash, before we have kids in college)----when a big $$ store will have an interest in opening on broadway. The reason is they'd probably estimate they'd quickly encounter the problems of nordstroms in dt indianapolis.

maybe if more ppl in LA had been "classists", they'd have realized that dtla, starting around over 50 yrs ago, was going downhill very fast & becoming a big joke. Ppl with $$ were abandoning it in droves, escaping to the burbs or areas like samo, bev hills or pasadena, & it would soon end up not much better than a calif version of cleveland, detroit, Indianapolis.

[citywatch]

Warning to 2nd rate downtowns!

Nordstrom plans to close its store at Circle Centre mall, dealing a substantial setback for downtown Indianapolis. The swanky department store chain helped launch a revival of the city's core when it opened in 1995 as an original anchor of the $320 million mall project.

But many of Nordstrom's most-sought-after customers now shop at the chain's newer store at The Fashion Mall at Keystone, and the crowds of convention visitors who shop at Circle Centre aren't picking up enough of the slack.

"We’re disappointed, but we understand Nordstrom’s business decision," said Marc Lotter, spokesman for Indianapolis Mayor Greg Ballard. "The company’s client base didn’t really match up with the convention and visitors business that’s coming into Indianapolis."

The city originally enticed Nordstrom to open in the mall by offering a new building and tenant improvements at no upfront cost to the company. Simon's (owner of the mall) preference is to land a replacement anchor such as Macy's that appeals to a broader mix of customers than Nordstrom, industry sources said. Another possibility would be to break up Nordstrom's 210,000 square feet to accommodate a few mid-size tenants.

Nordstrom's Fashion Mall store, which opened in 2008, drew customers away from the downtown store, and the addition of Nordstrom Rack will give shoppers even more reason to "go north,” said Mark Perlstein, a principal in locally based Sitehawk Retail Real Estate.

There's no question Nordstrom's departure is a blow to downtown. Circle Centre and its anchors supported the city’s core, bolstered the convention business, provided jobs, and inspired other investments downtown, former Mayor Bill Hudnut told IBJ for a story in 2010.

Occupancy at Circle Centre has held steady at about 93 percent for three years, excluding the troubled fourth floor, which was only 67-percent occupied in 2010. Sales per square foot rose about 3 percent in 2010, to $340, still well below the $406 per square foot the mall achieved in 2007.

^ sadly, on a measuring stick from good to bad, dtLA is located closer to the side where cities like Indianapolis are. This is a good example of why nice stores are so hesitant to open not just on broadway, but in any other part of dtla. It's probably why macys has neglected its store at 7th & flower. iow, if lots of customers were pouring through the door & sales were good, no way would a major dept store like macys allow things to get so bad that the reviews its dtla store gets on yelp would be a disaster.

[pesto]

Originally Posted by pwright1

I know I'm dreaming but it would be nice if they put a flagship Nordstrom on Broadway like the one in dt Seattle or dt San Francisco. You know, the grand piano, the spa, the shoe shine, the Grill and Cafe restaurants, At Home and full fledged men and women depts. The Nordstrom stores here in LA are tiny and lack many of the depts I am so use to. The Grove, Westside Pavillion, Glendale and Santa Monica are all so tiny and so disappointing. Topanga is just ok but who wants to drive all the way out there.

Regarding BrighamYen's comment on Laemmle, Glendale is opening a 4 screen Laemmle theater with housing above it a block from Bloomingdales and The Americana.

While Bloomies is years away, I would think the art house movies would be a good bet DT.

[Vangelist]

Actually it would be a waste of money to build and open a new theater on 4th & Spring, because you just know LA would most likely do it with its stucco-obsessed disappointing modern architecture standards

The best bet is to refurbish and use one of the existing movie palaces on Broadway just one block west. The recent UCLA screening series in the Million Dollar Theater (every Wednesday last fall, last week was "The King of Marvin Gardens," & "Five Easy "Pieces") was an attempt by the Delajani family to test whether audiences will come east if there's interesting programming on Broadway. I believe there was a decent turn-out (I went one week in October and the ground floor seating was almost full) and the theater passed the test.

They also own the Palace, the Los Angeles and I believe the Tower. All of which will hopefully see commercial use in the next few years. Here's a two year old article where they discuss wanting to revamp the theaters, and oh yeah... wanting to build more parking (predictable)
In a letter delivered at the Bringing Back Broadway Trustees meeting, Delijani promised to "restore and rehabilitate" the Palace and Los Angeles, including installing all infrastructure necessary to make the venues "accommodating for regular public use."
http://blogdowntown.com/2009/10/4800-broadway-effort-nets-rehab-commitment-from

[Vangelist]

Has anyone posted this yet? I know posting entire articles is against new forum policies but this is more like an updated list of what's opening downtown (and so isn't really an "article" and hopefully can stay)

Food Updates: 25 Bites of Bar and Restaurant News
By Hayley Fox and Eric Richardson
Published: Friday, November 25, 2011, at 03:31PM
http://blogdowntown.com/2011/11/6500-food-updates-25-bites-of-bar-and-restaurant



DOWNTOWN LOS ANGELES — It's been roughly six months since our last big food update in May, and Downtown hasn't slowed down a bit. Summer and fall brought plenty of new openings that we have been neglectful in mentioning. By way of catching up, here are 25 new spots that recently hit the Downtown scene.

Artisan House- Likely the Historic Core’s most anticipated new restaurant, Artisan House is currently soft-open in its massive corner space at 6th and Main. When fully operational, the spot will offer a restaurant, bar and gourmet market. 600 S. Main

Baco Mercat- Home to the original Baco, a flatbread sandwich created by Chef Josef Centeno, Baco Mercat is located in the San Fernando Building retail spaces that used to house Banquette and The Last Bookstore. In addition to the sandwiches and Baco Cocas (crispy flatbreads), Mercat has an extensive appetizer menu of salads, vegetables and pickled goods. While sandwiches are only $8, cocktails can cost up to $13. 400 S. Main

CityBilly- Modern comfort food with an upscale (and sometimes Japanese) twist, CityBilly is located on 7th near Grand in the space that formerly housed Pasta Primavera. Entrees include Winner’s Chicken Dinner, Whole-y Mackerel and Kimchi Spam “Loco-Moco.” 611 W. 7th

Daily Dose- Christian Page and Sarkis Vartanian took a little longer to open tucked-away Arts District spot Daily Dose than they thought when we first talked to them in December. They’re open now, though, serving up locally farmed and raised artisan food. 1820 Industrial St.

Cafe Demitasse- This little triangular cafe at the corner of 2nd and Central is serious about its coffee. Demitasse also offers teas, pastries, and a nice outdoor seating area. 135 S. San Pedro

Cafe Dulce- One block away in Japanese Village Plaza, Cafe Dulce pays a similar focus to its coffee, pairing it with pastries baked in-house. 134 Japanese Village Plaza Bldg E

The Escondite- A self-described “chill sanctuary,” this burger and beer joint prides itself on being vegetarian friendly and is open until 2 a.m. every day of the week. Located on Boyd between 3rd and 4th streets (in the space that was formerly 410 Boyd), The Escondite resembles an upscale saloon and has a large patio with a view of Downtown. 410 Boyd

Fat Spoon- With a tagline of curry, pasta, salad, this Little Tokyo restaurant from Michael Cardenas of Lazy Ox and aburiya Toranoko lives up to its name with a menu that serves just that: seafood salad, carbonara pasta and pork cutlet curry. Fun fact: Fat Spoon also has mini corn dogs on its menu as a side. 329 E. 1st

Flanders Frites- Taking the spot that Peruvian Chimu briefly occupied outside the Hill Street entrance of Grand Central Market, Flanders Frites offers Belgian fries and krokets. 324 S. Hill

Flying Pig Cafe- Joe Kim’s Flying Pig Cafe landed in Little Tokyo in July, offering the same fare as the truck out of a permanent location on Central Avenue.

Freshii- This 7th Street location is part of the international Freshii chain that offers fresh, healthy organic food that is custom built by the customer. Noodle bowls, wraps, salads and soups are designed on an individual basis. Think Chipotle; but with menu choices that include grilled tofu, goat cheese, antioxidant crunch salad and even probiotic frozen yogurt. 600 W. 7th

Garage Pizza- Silver Lake’s Garage Pizza opened at 7th and Main in late May, offering up pies until 4am seven days a week (including on Christmas Day, their website notes). All pizzas are $15 on Mondays. 100 1/2 W. 7th

Hollywood Pies- On the other side of Downtown, Hollywood Pies recently moved into City West and offers up Chicago-style pizzas Tuesday through Sunday. _ 333 S. Boylston_

LA Reflection- An upscale restaurant with an enormous menu, LA Reflection is currently serving breakfast and lunch with dinner coming soon (but the menu’s already up on the website!). Menu items include sushi, rib eye steaks, kabobs and vegan pancakes. The restaurant sits at the edge of the park behind the Police Administration Building. 155 S. Main

MF Gourmet- A family run business that recently joined the ranks in the Grand Central Market, MF Gourmet sells sandwiches, salads and fresh-baked bread. Although the grilled cheese sandwich made with Humboldt Fog and Brie cheeses sounds like dairy heaven, the main attraction is the bread. Brioche loaves, multigrain whole wheat, hamburger buns and even custom loaves created per your specifications. 317 S. Broadway Suite 39

Nola’s- A taste of New Orleans, Nola's took over from East 3rd Steakhouse in July, offering food and jazz in the Arts District. 734 E. 3rd

One-Eyed Gypsy- At the edge of the Arts District, Bordello recently gave way to locals bar One-Eyed Gypsy as Dana Hollister put her touch on the 1st and Vignes spot that was once Little Pedro’s. 901 E. 1st

Pattern Bar- Replacing happy hour with “fashionable hour”, this frock-themed bar across the street from the California Market Center serves cocktails, craft beers and an array of tapas, salads and paninis. The menu is extensive and includes traditional Venezuelan corncakes called Arepas in addition to the standard Spanish snacks like marinated olives and dry cured ham. Cocktails include The Dior, The Chanel, The Jacobs and The McQueen.

Pho Citi- Vietnamese chain Pho Citi just opened its newest and largest location at 2rd and Hill, a pretty sure draw thanks to 24-hour dining. The space in the Kawada Hotel had been empty since the closure of the short-lived Trifecta sports bar in 2007. http://www.phociti.com/

The Pie Hole- Exactly as it sounds, Arts District dessert spot Pie Hole has a short and very sweet menu; pie slices, baked goods, and espresso desserts dominate the list. But this quaint, modern location also has savory treats like the Short Rib Pot Pie and the most expensive item on the menu is $6.50. They’re open from 11 a.m. until the goods run out. 714 Traction

Caffe Primo- After years of construction, Tony Riviera’s Caffe Primo finally opened up at the corner of Wilshire and Flower this summer. While they’re hardly the last word on reviewing food, Yelp opinions are strongly polarized. 612 S. Flower

Salvage Bar & Lounge- A mix of 1920s restored original fixtures and contemporary design, Salvage Bar offers organic liquors and specialty cocktails along with drinking standards. Located on the ground floor of the Roosevelt Lofts, the bar includes an indoor/outdoor patio, main room and “uber-lounge.”

Semi Sweet Bakery- The bakery we previewed back in March finally opened up recently, offering up tasty treats Tuesday through Sunday. Follow Semi Sweet on Twitter or Facebook to get photos of savory and sweet offerings. 105 E. 6th

Silo Vodka Bar- Downtown’s obsession with specialized bars continued with Silo’s opening in June. Coats are provided for those entering the "ice lounge." 221 W. 7th

Xlixe Pizzeria- You can make up your own mind about being charmed or put off by a pizza place that describes itself as the “quirky love child of a tree hugging hipster and a lacoste donning yuppie.” Located in Little Tokyo’s Honda Plaza, Xlixe offers New York-style pizzas with creative toppings. 432 E. 2nd

[Vangelist]

Also, I missed the discussion about this, as it seems rather big news:

Union Station Panel Says Area Could Be the Next South Park
By Eric Richardson
Published: Friday, December 09, 2011, at 03:26PM
Read full article at: http://blogdowntown.com/2011/12/6522-union-station-panel-says-area-could-be-downtowns

DOWNTOWN LOS ANGELES — Union Station could be the center of Downtown's next big development boom, a panel of land use experts told the city and Metro on Friday morning.

The team of eight planners and development experts had spent the week studying the 500 acres around the historic train station, looking for ways in which the city can maximize the benefits it receives from Metro's ownership and development of the station site.

In presenting their results to an audience that included two city councilmembers, the head of the city's Planning department, Metro CEO Art Leahy and top planners from the transit agency, the panel said that the publicly-owned land that surrounds the station presents a tremendous opportunity because it creates a "land bank" for future development.

The nexus of all the transportation options coming into the station and the historic neighborhoods nearby could create a major destination, the panel said. Several talked of the potential for the Union Station area to be Downtown's next South Park, citing the mass of development that sprung up on Downtown's southern edge over the last ten years.

The current uses for that public land, however, is a challenge. Northeast of the 1939 station, roughly 75 acres are dedicated to two jails and a bus maintenance facility.

"The jail's got to go," said Bill Kistler, a senior client partner with Korn/Ferry International in London.

The county, though, will vote later this month on moving forward with a $1.4 billion project to rebuild the Men's Central Jail.
====

[pesto]

This is going to be some entertainment for some time. Jails are to this area what homeless are to the rest of DT: you can't help but see them the moment you arrive and they don't make you want to live there. There should be plenty of alternative places for them.

I would guess that downmarket housing and lodging is more likely than is another South Park. The area is a bit remote, and surrounded by freeways, industrial and transit. But the proposals should be interesting as will the actual interest that developers show.

The "land bank" comment seems most appropriate. In ten years this may become hot property and appropriate for large development, a stadium complex, etc.

[Trojan]

Originally Posted by Vangelist

So now Helen Mirren is being used as some sort of litmus test of what downtown should attract as we wish the homeless would just vanish elsewhere, inconvenient as they are to our neighborhood walks? This thread never stops. I love the perpetual conscious and otherwise classist statements!

Speaking of people walking, the art walk last night, just from observing it on a street level as I went across the street to eat something, seemed really dead - especially from its peak crowds in oh, 2008-2009. I think it was already starting to wane last year with the decision to try and make it quarterly, and the dead baby freak accident-incident killed off whatever was left of its status as a monthly event. Few local artists actually made money from it, and it's mostly a street festival thing now that restaurant owners exploit. Without the food trucks everywhere it almost looked like just another night in the city which is saying something positive actually: you don't need a monthly "event" to see people walking the streets of the Old Bank District. At this point in downtown's redevelopment, every night in this area of town is filled with pedestrians and patrons of local businesses, and the weekends are the busiest. The art walk served its purpose, and I'm not sure if it's even needed anymore, but it was still somewhat depressing to see how few people were milling around compared to years past. I guess that era, exciting as it was to see people flock to and rediscover the city center, is now over

I wish the Historic Core had a movie theater larger than the Downtown Independent; I'm still missing the Laemmle on Fig. The Regal only serves one corner of downtown, with one type of film (commercially big) for one type of audience; the DI features really small pictures. We're missing that venue that features the medium-sized releases

Can't help but admit that homeless are the first thing many people see.

[Illithid Dude]

Originally Posted by Vangelist

Actually it would be a waste of money to build and open a new theater on 4th & Spring, because you just know LA would most likely do it with its stucco-obsessed disappointing modern architecture standards
[/I]
http://blogdowntown.com/2009/10/4800-broadway-effort-nets-rehab-commitment-from

I actually don't think you are allowed to use stucco downtown anymore...

[pwright1]

When I'm in dt LA I see plenty of condos and apartments that are on the expensive side, meaning dt residents are not mostly poor or low income like some seem to believe. There shouldn't be any delay with bringing in some popular chain retail. It will happen sooner than you think.

[alki]

Originally Posted by Illithid Dude

Once again, sounds like Vancouver, whose downtown is mostly residential.

Yup. Both Vancouver and LA attract lots of loose foreign money.......and the Chinese are turning Vancouver into a home away from home. While Vancouver looks pretty, all that residential development hasn't boosted the city as much as people thought it would. Its becoming a very expensive enclave where its very difficult to find a job and where the middle class is leaving in droves. I would hate to see LA.....DTLA......go down that route.

If you could call high school that.

Oops........confused you with JDR. Sorry.

[alki]

Originally Posted by citywatch

since I'm guessing that you & alki are native to seattle, & are posting to this thread right now, I became very curious about the situation with Nordstroms up north, so I took a google streetview tour.

Just for the record I am not native to Seattle.

I'm surprised that nordstrom's main store doesn't date back to the beginning but actually is relatively new....


maps.google.com

Nordstrom's started in DT as a shoe store and slowly evolved into a dept store over the years. Occupying the old Frederick and Nelson Dept store was the next step up for the chain. The loss of F and N in DT in 1992 prompted renewed efforts to improve DT Seattle and let to the development of this mall.........Pacific Plaza:

[alki]

Originally Posted by citywatch

Warning to 2nd rate downtowns!

^ sadly, on a measuring stick from good to bad, dtLA is located closer to the side where cities like Indianapolis are. This is a good example of why nice stores are so hesitant to open not just on broadway, but in any other part of dtla. It's probably why macys has neglected its store at 7th & flower. iow, if lots of customers were pouring through the door & sales were good, no way would a major dept store like macys allow things to get so bad that the reviews its dtla store gets on yelp would be a disaster.

I don't believe Indianapolis is a second rate DT. In fact, its a pretty successful one. However, it takes a big demographic to support a dept store.........particularly an upscale one like Nordstom's.

[DistrictDirt]

Originally Posted by pesto

While Bloomies is years away, I would think the art house movies would be a good bet DT.

Seems like the Downtown Independent does pretty good business, so that's a safe bet.

[Illithid Dude]

8th and Grand, one of my favorite proposals, has been scaled back to a 7 story 'tower' with 700 units and 734 parking spaces ): At least, knowing Astani, it will look pretty. Still, though, this is very depressing. At least make it 150 feet so it can be the same height as the historic buildings!

http://blogdowntown.com/2011/12/6524-astanis-8th-and-grand-set-to-move-forward

[JDRCRASH]

Just like LA isn't New York, Chicago, or Boston... it isn't DC, London, or Paris, either. More, low-rise buildings (instead of fewer, high-rise buildings), means that LA has to work that much harder to make itself architecturally beautiful... something that came easy to DC, London, and Paris because of their age.

LA can't be those six cities, and it shouldn't try to be. It should try to be a mixture of both.

Originally Posted by Illithid Dude

8th and Grand, one of my favorite proposals, has been scaled back to a 7 story 'tower' with 700 units and 734 parking spaces ): At least, knowing Astani, it will look pretty. Still, though, this is very depressing. At least make it 150 feet so it can be the same height as the historic buildings!

http://blogdowntown.com/2011/12/6524-astanis-8th-and-grand-set-to-move-forward

Remember Illithid, as more and more parking lots become low-rise sprawl, this puts even more pressure to build high-rises, especially once Greater LA's population growth is focused on the city and our transit network booms like it is now. And parking requirement reform will encourage high-rise building even further.

Scaled-back projects like this just ensure future high-rise growth will be demand-driven and unabating like Toronto's.