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  #2801  
Old Posted Aug 19, 2021, 6:23 PM
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New York: 9,151,543
Tampa: 2,662

Nobody will ever confuse these two places. I recall my first time in Tampa. It struck me as the city with the deadest downtown on the planet.
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  #2802  
Old Posted Aug 19, 2021, 6:25 PM
ChiMIchael ChiMIchael is offline
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Baltimore always fascinated me because I feel it has more economic advantages than most rust belt cities. I'd pinpoint their struggles to its social failures, but there are some cities that aren't much better but can manage growth.
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  #2803  
Old Posted Aug 19, 2021, 6:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MolsonExport View Post
New York: 9,151,543
Tampa: 2,662

Nobody will ever confuse these two places. I recall my first time in Tampa. It struck me as the city with the deadest downtown on the planet.
For me that was Stockton, CA. Bakersfield is another one, but not nearly quite as dead.
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  #2804  
Old Posted Aug 19, 2021, 6:31 PM
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Originally Posted by IWant2BeInSTL View Post
Philly does, indeed, still have a shitload of problems not so different from those of Detroit, Baltimore, and St. Louis. but Philly also has the advantage of being able to draw people priced out of the more expensive cities in both the dense BalWash and NE corridors. I don't know what Baltimore's excuse is, but St. Louis and Detroit don't have that.
Well, conversely, Philadelphia has much greater proximate competition than Detroit or St. Louis. If you're from a small town/city in Michigan, and you want to move to a city for whatever reason-- better job prospects, urban amenities/lifestyle, etc. basically your only option is Detroit if you want to stay in state and close to family. Same thing with Missouri and St. Louis.
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  #2805  
Old Posted Aug 19, 2021, 6:55 PM
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^ but that's where Philly's low cost of living and real estate—as compared to places like Boston, NYC, and DC—come in. if you want to live in a big city in the corridor and you don't want to pay over a million bucks for a home, there's really not much competition.
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  #2806  
Old Posted Aug 19, 2021, 7:04 PM
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You can live in the urban parts of Jersey, a few minutes from Manhattan, for the same price as Philly, or even less. So I doubt many people are moving to Philly bc the core RE is cheaper than core RE in the higher cost NE cities.
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  #2807  
Old Posted Aug 19, 2021, 7:14 PM
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^ i doubt your doubts. maybe not every person who moves to/within the corridor wants to live in urban jersey.
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  #2808  
Old Posted Aug 19, 2021, 7:21 PM
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I know someone that moved to Philly pre-COVID for COL and works remote, but I don't think it's that common. I think the more likely reason for Philly growing again is the same reason New York is growing again: it's too hard to build sprawl in this region anymore.
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  #2809  
Old Posted Aug 19, 2021, 7:41 PM
dave8721 dave8721 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MolsonExport View Post
New York: 9,151,543
Tampa: 2,662

Nobody will ever confuse these two places. I recall my first time in Tampa. It struck me as the city with the deadest downtown on the planet.
Thats actually more than most southern metros. Charlotte has 2,000 that I can find. Orlando has 0. Jacksonville has 0. The Raleigh/Durham area has 0 despite the universities.
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  #2810  
Old Posted Aug 19, 2021, 7:47 PM
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There is something weird with Universities that I have noticed. I wonder if it has to do with covid and many universities closing their dorms, perhaps while the census was going on. Some universities have huge density clusters (see Michigan State, or even Holy Cross making those Worcester tracts) but other large universities with big dorm complexes like Florida don't lead to any density increases. LSU doesn't show up at all on Baton Rouge's density map.
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  #2811  
Old Posted Aug 19, 2021, 8:02 PM
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Originally Posted by IWant2BeInSTL View Post
^ i doubt your doubts. maybe not every person who moves to/within the corridor wants to live in urban jersey.
You previously claimed that people moved to core Philly bc it was cheaper than other urban cores. Now it's been pointed out that the premise is untrue. So, yeah, for the purposes of this discussion, that was your claim.

People move to core Philly bc they like core Philly, not bc it's 30% cheaper than a neighborhood 60 miles away, when a neighborhood 5 miles away is 40% cheaper. That makes no sense. It's like moving to SF to escape high prices in SV, when you could move to Fremont, which is cheaper than SF and closer to SV.

So if I want to be close to Manhattan, but don't want to spend, say $1 million on a small apartment, why would I move to Philly and spend 500k on an apartment, when I could move to West NY and spend 400k on that same apartment?
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  #2812  
Old Posted Aug 19, 2021, 8:21 PM
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Thats actually more than most southern metros. Charlotte has 2,000 that I can find. Orlando has 0. Jacksonville has 0. The Raleigh/Durham area has 0 despite the universities.
sounds like places I never want to visit. (I have been to Orlando, and...well since I don't care for Disneyworld, there wasn't much to interest me).

Suburbs in search of a city.
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  #2813  
Old Posted Aug 19, 2021, 8:23 PM
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How many census tracts exceed 5000/square mile ?
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  #2814  
Old Posted Aug 19, 2021, 8:33 PM
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Originally Posted by dc_denizen View Post
How many census tracts exceed 5000/square mile ?
all the interesting ones.
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  #2815  
Old Posted Aug 19, 2021, 8:43 PM
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Originally Posted by dc_denizen View Post
How many census tracts exceed 5000/square mile ?
93,758,171 people live in census tracts exceeding 5000/sqmi.
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  #2816  
Old Posted Aug 19, 2021, 9:14 PM
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Originally Posted by iheartthed View Post
Philadelphia and Detroit were/are fairly alike. Similar demographics, similar peak populations, similar densities, both socked by longterm post-industrial declines, both dealing with racial strife, both undermined by heavy flight/suburbanization. I guess you could say if Detroit had pneumonia, Philly had the flu.
Emphasis on 'were.' Today, Detroit has only 39% of Philadelphia's population; they are in different leagues now.
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  #2817  
Old Posted Aug 19, 2021, 9:21 PM
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From UCLA Newsroom:

UCLA research pinpoints where 2020 census undercounts were most likely in L.A. County

Les Dunseith | August 19, 2021

Prior to the 2020 U.S. census, many observers feared that large segments of the population would be undercounted. Those fears appear to have been realized, according to a UCLA analysis of the census data.

The study, conducted by the UCLA Center for Neighborhood Knowledge, found that in Los Angeles County, residents in some neighborhoods were much more likely than others to be excluded from the 2020 census. Specifically, the research (PDF) concluded that — at the census-tract level — undercounts were most likely in areas where the majority of residents are Hispanic or Asian, have lower incomes, rent their homes or were born outside of the U.S.

Paul Ong, a research professor at the UCLA Luskin School of Public Affairs, and Jonathan Ong of Ong and Associates, a public-interest consulting firm, combed through data published Aug. 12 by the U.S. Census Bureau.

“The results are, unfortunately, consistent with our worst fear that the 2020 enumeration faced numerous potentially insurmountable barriers to a complete and accurate count,” Paul Ong said.

The research team compared the information to earlier population estimates drawn from the census bureau’s American Community Survey to determine whether and where the 2020 enumeration appeared to undercount or overcount the population within each neighborhood in Los Angeles County.

A key difference between the American Community Survey and the 2020 census, Paul Ong said, is that the COVID-19 pandemic severely affected data collection for the census. Previous research showed that disruption was particularly pronounced in disadvantaged neighborhoods. That appears to have created a “differential undercount,” meaning that some populations were more likely than other groups not to be counted. That, in turn, means that the scope of ethnic diversity and demographic change in cities like Los Angeles could be significantly underestimated, he said.



Based on comparisons between the latest census data and the most recent American Community Survey estimates, the UCLA study found that in Los Angeles County:

-Predominantly Hispanic neighborhoods are most likely to have the largest undercounts in the census.

-Neighborhoods with the greatest percentage of people living below the poverty line were most likely to have undercounts.

-Neighborhoods with larger percentages of renters, as opposed to homeowners, were more likely to have undercounts.

-Census tracts in which most people are U.S.-born were more likely to be accurately counted than predominantly immigrant neighborhoods.

The pandemic wasn’t the only factor that hampered data collection for the 2020 census. The effort was also adversely affected by the Trump administration’s highly publicized push to include a citizenship question on the questionnaire. Although that effort was ultimately unsuccessful, Paul Ong said the controversy may have depressed participation among immigrants, whether they were undocumented or not.

“The findings indicate that the needless politicization of the 2020 enumeration seriously dampened participation by those targeted by the Trump administration,” he said.

Problems with the self-reporting aspect of the census placed greater pressure on the subsequent on-the-ground outreach in which census-takers canvassed nonresponding households. The success of that follow-up drive will not be known until a post-census analysis is conducted, which is scheduled for 2022.

The UCLA analysis is consistent with results from previous studies that have shown undercounts likelier to occur in disadvantaged communities. How residents are counted is important because census results influence legislative redistricting and government spending, which means the results can have serious political and economic implications.

“Given the analysis, it is imperative that we address the inequality in the census to ensure fair political representation in redistricting,” Paul Ong said.

Unlike previous corrective efforts, which address census undercounts based on national statistics and results from a comparatively small number of districts, the UCLA research relied on data specific to each neighborhood. As a result, Paul Ong said, the new approach should be more accurate and precise, and it could ultimately help officials understand how to adjust population statistics to account for the differential bias in completing the 2020 census and future counts.



Undercounts are of most concern, but the technique could also help identify overcounts, which are rarer but can occur. Military redeployments may lead to overcounts, for example; other situations include some students who get counted twice while splitting time between home and college, and miscounts of people with second homes or people who experience a stay in a nursing home while also holding a permanent residence.

Ong & Associates, of which Paul Ong is the founder, provided services pro bono for the study.

Link: https://newsroom.ucla.edu/releases/2...angeles-county
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  #2818  
Old Posted Aug 19, 2021, 9:39 PM
IWant2BeInSTL
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Originally Posted by Crawford View Post
You previously claimed that people moved to core Philly bc it was cheaper than other urban cores. Now it's been pointed out that the premise is untrue. So, yeah, for the purposes of this discussion, that was your claim.
wait, so since there is another urban core in the east coast corridor as cheap as Philly, it is not the case that Philly is cheaper than other urban cores within the east coast corridor? think about that logic for a minute. you haven't actually demonstrated that my claim is untrue.

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Originally Posted by Crawford View Post
So if I want to be close to Manhattan, but don't want to spend, say $1 million on a small apartment, why would I move to Philly and spend 500k on an apartment, when I could move to West NY and spend 400k on that same apartment?
if you wanted to be close to Manhattan, you wouldn't. but if you didn't want/need to be close to Manhattan, you might.
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  #2819  
Old Posted Aug 19, 2021, 9:51 PM
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Originally Posted by MolsonExport View Post
New York: 9,151,543
Tampa: 2,662

Nobody will ever confuse these two places. I recall my first time in Tampa. It struck me as the city with the deadest downtown on the planet.

just curious, what year did you visit tampa? i wouldn't say it has a lively downtown, but compared to 10-15 years ago, there was a marked improvement when i went last fall.
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  #2820  
Old Posted Aug 19, 2021, 9:59 PM
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just curious, what year did you visit tampa? I wouldn't say it has a lively downtown, but compared to 10-15 years ago, there was a marked improvement when i went last fall.
2003
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