Federal Government & Politics II

[thewave46]

Originally Posted by YOWetal

Of course the federal government is a lot more than Passports. Some of the largest increases were in Public Health (naturally and understandably) and CRA/ESDC. CRA/ESDC because when you hand out billions of dollars in grants and loans somebody needs to administer it. Frankly I'd prefer they added more people in fraud investigation.

Immigration has a lot more people because they are processing more visas. I think we want attention paid to that.

Cutting benefits allows cutting headcounts but otherwise it's basically required.

Sure there are a bunch of departments who push around papers but their budgets are fairly small. Most of the money is DND/ Veterans $30B and Indigenous $45B. If you take benefits out of their budget all the other departments don't spend $75B combined.

.

My point is that the demands on the federal government don't necessarily scale with population writ large.

CRA has ballooned in size in an era when it theoretically should have benefited from the huge switch to online tax system. Fine, it has some more programs in place than in 2010, but even as late as 2018, it has ~45k employees, not far from its historical ~40k. Now it's near ~60k. What happened in the last 5 years? Do we need ~60k people in a post-COVID CRA?

IRCC is issuing more visas, sure. Admittedly it probably is more productive on an 'employee per visa/PR' basis at 1.6M/year, despite doubling in size in headcount. Not sure it's a good policy, but they're busy.

The breakdown of operational costs to cash handouts is small admittedly for the feds, but they don't necessarily scale together. Does increasing inflation-adjusted OAS payout really swell demand for CRA employees? Or increasing Canada Health Transfer payments require more employees? Is it what Canadians think is important?

The question comes to this: Do the departments function better and yield better value for money given their staffing? Some departments haven't budged in employment levels in 15 years. Some have fattened rapidly - fine if we're doing something productive. I suspect there's not a lot of value-add in many positions, however, and the current government seems disinclined to find more value at this juncture.

[thewave46]

At any rate, the gonzo growth in federal employment happened post-2018.

From 2010-2015, the public service shrank from ~282k to ~257k. It only passed 2010 again in 2018.

It's the last 5 years where it's gone from ~287k to ~357k.

Not sure the federal government is working much better in 2024 than it was in 2018.

[YOWetal]

Originally Posted by thewave46

The question comes to this: Do the departments function better and yield better value for money given their staffing? Some departments haven't budged in employment levels in 15 years. Some have fattened rapidly - fine if we're doing something productive. I suspect there's not a lot of value-add in many positions, however, and the current government seems disinclined to find more value at this juncture.

The problem with your speculation is you have no idea. Now neither do I really. More problematically both for a government that plans to cut or one that let headcounts soar is neither does the cabinet. I think we need party loyalists managing the actual functions of the government. Especially under a Conservative government given how leftist most bureaucrats are but also the reverse. I think knee jerk reactions of find efficiencies do more with less aren't really helpful. To get rid of our government bloat we will need to cut some programs and benefits. That will hurt some people but any other plan will fail.

[thewave46]

Originally Posted by YOWetal

The problem with your speculation is you have no idea. Now neither do I really. More problematically both for a government that plans to cut or one that let headcounts soar is neither does the cabinet. I think we need party loyalists managing the actual functions of the government. Especially under a Conservative government given how leftist most bureaucrats are but also the reverse. I think knee jerk reactions of find efficiencies do more with less aren't really helpful. To get rid of our government bloat we will need to cut some programs and benefits. That will hurt some people but any other plan will fail.

Sure, we're people on an internet discussion board.

Mostly, the feast and famine shit annoys the hell out of me, because it's so corrosive to good functioning of institutions.

A continued effort to be efficient and deliver value for money is key. Once government starts failing at that and people start noticing, the Opposition gets a bigger mandate to walk in with a meat cleaver. Meat cleavers are a dumb and bludgeoning way of accomplishing goals. The damage they do is actually sometimes worse in the long-term.

Indifferent management is just as destructive in the long-term to a company's health as radical management that guts the works.

[Truenorth00]

Originally Posted by thewave46

Sure, we're people on an internet discussion board.

Mostly, the feast and famine shit annoys the hell out of me, because it's so corrosive to good functioning of institutions.

A continued effort to be efficient and deliver value for money is key. Once government starts failing at that and people start noticing, the Opposition gets a bigger mandate to walk in with a meat cleaver. Meat cleavers are a dumb and bludgeoning way of accomplishing goals. The damage they do is actually sometimes worse in the long-term.

Indifferent management is just as destructive in the long-term to a company's health as radical management that guts the works.

Mostly agree. Good management requires consistent practice of such. That's true whether it's the private or public sector. A big problem for government institutions though is that their work is driven by electoral priorities. A government that cares more about climate change will staff more climate scientists. The next government which doesn't have climate change as a priority will find the number of climate scientists in government excessive. It's very difficult to staff government long term given how priorities can change. Some of this difficulty is why we see government giving consultants more and more business.

Something I'd like to see more of in the public service is more automation and process review to try and reduce the administrative burden inside government.

[WarrenC12]

Originally Posted by YOWetal

I don't know his comment seems more constructive than yours. I don't think either of them "suck". If he comes out and criticizes Trudeau on his vacation (I'm sure he won't) because he'd have to talk about his vacation. There was some speculation on where he was especially when Lewis came out with her UN petition which now seems to be timed for that.

I agree. To me there is a huge difference in having an alternate position like "we don't need a carbon tax" vs making a huge deal about an expense and then doing the very same thing yourself. Hypocrisy is the lowest of the low.

Of course it will happen with politicians, but it should be called out.

[lio45]

Originally Posted by Truenorth00

Lol. I'm an uncharismatic nerd. I'd fair worse than Stefane Dion.

Drop the glasses and start wearing a t-shirt, your polling numbers will double overnight!

[shreddog]

Originally Posted by Truenorth00

The best immigration argument PP could make is to argue we need more skilled immigrants and fewer students and TFWs.

Well in 2008 when Harper and the Conservatives tried that, the Liberals called them discriminatory toward immigrants (just short of the R-word) ...

Dion uses Reform document to criticize Harper
...
The new bill would allow the government to fast-track the applications of the types of immigrants it wants -- like skill workers -- or freeze applications it doesn't want.
...
The Liberals oppose the proposed immigration laws, calling them a radical shift of power to the immigration minister. The NDP has also criticized the immigration bill, saying it will keep families apart.
...
According to an Immigration and Citizenship Ministry news release in March, 429,649 foreigners came to live in Canada last year, more than in any other year.
...
James Bissett was head of the Canadian Immigration Service during the latter part of the Mulroney years and said on CTV Newsnet's Mike Duffy Live that the government's changes to immigration were "desperately needed."

"When the Liberals brought in the new immigration act in 2001, they forgot a very important element -- a mechanism to regulate and control the flow of immigrants," Bissett said.
...
Immigrants let into Canada should have the skills to integrate into the job market. Immigration should primarily serve an economic purpose. Family sponsorships should be restricted to spouses and independent children under age 18. Parents, grandparents should have to go through the normal routes.

LINK

[theman23]

Originally Posted by lio45

Let’s be real here: anyone who uses, in the same sentence, the words “the number of people entering the country every year as housing pressures mount” and the number 500,000 (a fake number, literally: we all know the real number of new people entering the country per year and making housing pressure mount is ~1.7 million) is, of course, a real shameless liar. (Not surprising: it’s politicians we’re talking about.)

For the record, PP could use this to technically comply with his promise: tie the number of accepted new PRs to the number of new units the Canadian construction industry can realistically build yearly (~200k), then add some 1.5 million TFWs and bogus “students”, and you have the best of both worlds: cheap labor for the industry, continued economic growth despite anemic productivity, AND smoke and mirrors for your base who thinks you actually limited immigration.

He corrected a reporter and pointed out that the number of annual immigrants was at 1.2 million when he mentioned the need to tie immigration numbers to housing starts. He may well say something and end up doing the other, but this is probably the clearest publicly articulated vision we've had from a federal politician about reforming our immigration program in about 10 years.

[lio45]

OMG your link is epic!

Originally Posted by Justin Trudeau on May 5, 2014

Throughout our history, Canada’s immigration policy has brought people here who had a pathway to citizenship. They were — and are — nation builders. It has been supported by political parties of all stripes, and promoted by successive governments over generations.

With their mismanagement of the Temporary Foreign Worker Program, the Conservatives have done serious damage to that commitment.

Since taking office, Prime Minister Stephen Harper and the Conservative Party have transformed the Temporary Foreign Worker Program — which was originally designed to bring in temporary workers on a limited basis when no Canadian could be found — into one that has brought in a large pool of vulnerable workers.

As a result, the number of short-term foreign workers in Canada has more than doubled, from 141,000 in 2005 to 338,000 in 2012. There were nearly as many temporary foreign workers admitted into the country in 2012 as there were permanent residents — 213,573 of the former compared to 257,887.

At this rate, by 2015, temporary worker entries will outnumber permanent resident entries.

This has all happened under the Conservatives’ watch, despite repeated warnings from the Liberal Party and from Canadians across the country about its impact on middle class Canadians: it drives down wages and displaces Canadian workers.

[Truenorth00]

Originally Posted by shreddog

Well in 2008 when Harper and the Conservatives tried that, the Liberals called them discriminatory toward immigrants (just short of the R-word) ...LINK

We weren't taking in over a million immigrants back then and didn't have tent cities everywhere. The public reception to such a suggestion would be very different today.

[Black Star]

^^ Hahaha good find.

The deflection of the liberals/communist left is completely off the hook.

trudeau hates Canada.....He has proved this sentiment in numerous ways throughout his disastrous tenure as PM. He encapsulates every undesirable trait that a human being could possess. He is immoral, rudderless, simple minded, narcissistic, shallow, smug, foolish, poorly spoken, soft, poorly read, ignorant, dishonest, daft, sleazy, Inauthentic. The latter are his "better" qualities.

[kwoldtimer]

Immigrants, permanent residents, skilled workers, family class, parents/grandparents, temporary foreign workers, students, refugees. People need to be clear on what is being talked about. Not all immigrants are the same. Not all are even "immigrants".

[acottawa]

Originally Posted by Truenorth00

Mostly agree. Good management requires consistent practice of such. That's true whether it's the private or public sector. A big problem for government institutions though is that their work is driven by electoral priorities. A government that cares more about climate change will staff more climate scientists. The next government which doesn't have climate change as a priority will find the number of climate scientists in government excessive. It's very difficult to staff government long term given how priorities can change. Some of this difficulty is why we see government giving consultants more and more business.

Something I'd like to see more of in the public service is more automation and process review to try and reduce the administrative burden inside government.

To build on your point I think politicians see the creation of new bureaucratic unit as an end in itself and don’t care whether they are doing anything useful or have the tools to do the job. We did something about X by creating and office of X affairs.

The other thing that happens is bureaucrats are good at getting a cut on some trendy thing that is popular with the government to get more staff.

[Loco101]

Is this being blamed on Trudeau?

Alberta power grid at 'high risk' of rotating power outages

Albertans were asked for the second evening in a row on Saturday to limit their electricity usage to essential needs only.

According to an alert issued by the Alberta Emergency Management Agency(opens in a new tab) to all cell phones shortly before 7 p.m., a high demand for power during the extreme cold placed the province at a "high risk" of rotating power outages.

"On top of high demand of our own energy generation, Alberta's grid receives electricity from neighbouring provinces. Extreme weather in Saskatchewan and British Columbia is impacting electricity sharing, which is also a contributing factor to tonight's grid alert," Nathan Neudorf, the province's utilities minister, said in a statement.

"The Alberta Electric System Operator has activated its emergency grid management plan to work with local distribution utilities to avoid potential rolling brownouts."

A similar request was made of Albertans on Friday, when the Alberta Electric System Operator recorded a new record for power use.

To conserve electricity, Albertans were asked to:

shut off unnecessary lights and appliances;
minimize use of space heaters;
delay use of major power-consuming appliances like washers, dryers and dishwashers as well as electric vehicle chargers and block heaters;
cook with a microwave, crockpot or toaster oven instead of an electric oven or stove;
limit use of kitchen and bathroom fans;
work on a laptop instead of a desktop computer;
unplug appliances when not in use; and
close curtains to cover drafty windows.

https://edmonton.ctvnews.ca/alberta-...ages-1.6725104

[Loco101]

Originally Posted by acottawa

To build on your point I think politicians see the creation of new bureaucratic unit as an end in itself and don’t care whether they are doing anything useful or have the tools to do the job. We did something about X by creating and office of X affairs.

The other thing that happens is bureaucrats are good at getting a cut on some trendy thing that is popular with the government to get more staff.

Very true. We've seen it with every government no matter what political party.

[Black Star]

Originally Posted by Loco101

Is this being blamed on Trudeau?

Alberta power grid at 'high risk' of rotating power outages

Albertans were asked for the second evening in a row on Saturday to limit their electricity usage to essential needs only.

According to an alert issued by the Alberta Emergency Management Agency(opens in a new tab) to all cell phones shortly before 7 p.m., a high demand for power during the extreme cold placed the province at a "high risk" of rotating power outages.

"On top of high demand of our own energy generation, Alberta's grid receives electricity from neighbouring provinces. Extreme weather in Saskatchewan and British Columbia is impacting electricity sharing, which is also a contributing factor to tonight's grid alert," Nathan Neudorf, the province's utilities minister, said in a statement.

"The Alberta Electric System Operator has activated its emergency grid management plan to work with local distribution utilities to avoid potential rolling brownouts."

A similar request was made of Albertans on Friday, when the Alberta Electric System Operator recorded a new record for power use.

To conserve electricity, Albertans were asked to:

shut off unnecessary lights and appliances;
minimize use of space heaters;
delay use of major power-consuming appliances like washers, dryers and dishwashers as well as electric vehicle chargers and block heaters;
cook with a microwave, crockpot or toaster oven instead of an electric oven or stove;
limit use of kitchen and bathroom fans;
work on a laptop instead of a desktop computer;
unplug appliances when not in use; and
close curtains to cover drafty windows.

https://edmonton.ctvnews.ca/alberta-...ages-1.6725104

CTV News.....lol. Come on man. And these degenerates want an all electrical Grid. Its a Scam. They are stepping in their own shit every time they speak. Ban Fossil fuels...which are the life Blood of our society. And then say and do this. They are Insane.

[Loco101]

Originally Posted by Black Star

CTV News.....lol. Come on man. And these degenerates want an all electrical Grid. Its a Scam. They are stepping in their own shit every time they speak. Ban Fossil fuels...which are the life Blood of our society. And then say and do this. They are Insane.

Well I see that the power is still on there.

[shreddog]

Originally Posted by Loco101

Is this being blamed on Trudeau?

Alberta power grid at 'high risk' of rotating power outages
...

Why would you even post this with that comment? Are you either trying to slag Albertans or start something else?

[shreddog]

Originally Posted by Loco101

Very true. We've seen it with every government no matter what political party.

Yes the Conservative government under Harper were infamous for creating new bureaucracies and massively growing the CS!