The Curv | 178.5m | 60Fl | Proposed

[jollyburger]

Originally Posted by LeftCoaster

There are three options here:

1. $72M worth of subsidized housing in an expensive building
2. $55M worth of subsidized housing in a more cost effective building
3. $0 worth of subsidized housing when the project gets cancelled because we insisted on option 1

Seems like option 2 ain't a bad deal at all to the taxpayers of Vancouver.

And option 2 includes more market rental

[whatnext]

Originally Posted by chowhou

It's the Jean Swanson mentality. Anything that provides market housing (or even worse, luxury housing!!) is bad, regardless of how much social housing/funding it provides.

We used to build social housing without the help of “luxury condos”. Who really believes Vancouver needs a $60 million penthouse? Did they ever manage to unload the penthouse at the Hotel Georgia residences?

[Vancouver_Highrise]

This is disappointing:

https://storeys.com/curv-vancouver-b...p-foreclosure/

[jollyburger]

Originally Posted by Vancouver_Highrise

This is disappointing:

https://storeys.com/curv-vancouver-b...p-foreclosure/

G&M article from today about people just walking away from their units

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/real...hurting-condo/

[AlessioSBT]

Originally Posted by Vancouver_Highrise

This is disappointing:

https://storeys.com/curv-vancouver-b...p-foreclosure/

I told people this would happen.
I don't understand how simple math can be ignored, if prices right now are around 1000/sqft (even for luxury buildings) why on earth anyone would buy something for more than 2000/sqft? Toronto has right now luxury buildings going under 900/sqft.

I remember i even posted about someone on reddit saying he bought the pre-sale as investment (like basically everyone) and paid something like 2300/sqft. The current situation is that prices will stay around 1000/sqft for years to come, now imagine how many years you have to wait to even think about making a profit on something you paid double that amount.

Obviously it doesn't make any sense, and this is why i keep saying that we will not see any new project in this city for the next decade (without counting hotels or rentals).

[Changing City]

Originally Posted by AlessioSBT

I told people this would happen.
I don't understand how simple math can be ignored, if prices right now are around 1000/sqft (even for luxury buildings) why on earth anyone would buy something for more than 2000/sqft? Toronto has right now luxury buildings going under 900/sqft.

I remember i even posted about someone on reddit saying he bought the pre-sale as investment (like basically everyone) and paid something like 2300/sqft. The current situation is that prices will stay around 1000/sqft for years to come, now imagine how many years you have to wait to even think about making a profit on something you paid double that amount.

Obviously it doesn't make any sense, and this is why i keep saying that we will not see any new project in this city for the next decade (without counting hotels or rentals).

You didn't say that. Only a week or two ago you said "I think people need to remember that is currently impossible to build residential in nay big city in canada. Hotels for sure, maybe some kind of business, but there will be nothing residential for years because currently it cost more than what you can get. Simple as that."

Now you've changed that to suggest it's only condo projects that will not be built for ten years. You now agree that some rental projects will be built, and now it's just Vancouver, not all the big cities in Canada.

Clearly very expensive (to build, and to buy) large condo projects are going to pause in the current economic and political situation. Curv, and a few other luxury tower projects, have been 'running on fumes' for a couple of years. But some expensive (but not as expensive) towers have started in the past year, like Block on Robson, and the Landa tower on Alberni at Denman.

Some over-stretched developers may fail, and so will some developments both in the City of Vancouver, and in other Metro Vancouver municipalities. It seems very unlikely that 'no condo project will be built in the next decade' in Vancouver. Few will be started this year, and maybe not next year either, but after that nobody can accurately predict what might happen.

[AlessioSBT]

Originally Posted by Changing City

Now you've changed that to suggest it's only condo projects that will not be built for ten years.

I always meant that.

Originally Posted by Changing City

You now agree that some rental projects will be built

I have always agreed to that.

Originally Posted by Changing City

and now it's just Vancouver, not all the big cities in Canada.

I still said that it's canada, not sure why you think vancouver, i even said that toronto currently has even lower price/sqft, that literally means more difficult not easier.

[Changing City]

Originally Posted by AlessioSBT

I still said that it's canada, not sure why you think vancouver, i even said that toronto currently has even lower price/sqft, that literally means more difficult not easier.

There are several Canadian cities where projects cost less than Vancouver or Toronto, and where condo development is still going ahead. So it's not 'all of Canada'.

There are new condo projects in Vancouver that don't cost as much as luxury towers like Curv. And there are apparently enough buyers willing to pay $1,800 psf average for the Landa tower to break ground less than a year ago. The fact that older buildings on the resale market sell for under $1,000 really isn't relevant. Resale prices have generally been less than new buildings. It doesn't mean no new buildings will be developed.

Is there a slowdown in the condo market? Yes. Will it mean no developer will build any condo project in Vancouver in the next ten years? Almost certainly not.

[WarrenC12]

Originally Posted by AlessioSBT

I always meant that.

Please quote yourself in the future so we can all rely on your crystal ball.

Real estate and presales in particular have always been a huge speculators game.

[jollyburger]

^^ Michael Geller knew from day one Curv was going to fail.

The twists and turns of CURV: 60-storey luxury tower planned for downtown Vancouver now facing receivership

“The project was completely ill-conceived from day one and those in the development industry knew as much, but there was a very ambitious project manager who no doubt made a lot of money, along with the real estate agents and other consultants and previous owners of the property,” said Michael Geller, a retired architect, real estate developer and consultant, who remembers going to the CURV launch party at the downtown sales centre.

“I suspect someone will try and buy this property at a discounted price and likely hold on to it for a while since right now, it really doesn’t make sense to build either condominiums or a purpose-built rental on this site.”

https://vancouversun.com/news/curv-6...g-receivership

[Migrant_Coconut]

Yes, yes, Michael, tell us how it should all be torn down and replaced with more of your precious South False Creek lowrises.

[whatnext]

Originally Posted by jollyburger

^^ Michael Geller knew from day one Curv was going to fail.

https://vancouversun.com/news/curv-6...g-receivership

Well, is he wrong? The multiple flips with an experienced local developer like Wall bailing for a “greater fool” was pretty telling. Certainly it’s a true comment for Brivia’s time with the site. By 2021 the China money train had left the station. Who exactly is Brivia anyway?

Meanwhile nobody’s commented that during a housing crisis two perfectly good rental buildings have sat empty for years.

[officedweller]

The site looks directly into the Butterfly on one side and the north side views will also be blocked in future.
The concept of concentrating the tall towers on one block doesn't seem to work for market condos.
(Butterfly buyers perhaps being oblivious to future towers back when bought).

[Changing City]

Originally Posted by whatnext

Who exactly is Brivia anyway?

just google. You know how google, don't you, whatnext? You just put your fingers on the keyboard, and type.

[whatnext]

Originally Posted by Changing City

just google. You know how google, don't you, whatnext? You just put your fingers on the keyboard, and type.

So you don’t know either.

One would think a former planner would be more concerned about the former homes in the two existing apartments have sat empty and out of the housing market for years.

I guess the city doesn’t get its $55million and those buyers dumb enough to put down a deposit don’t get their promised Porsche.

[Changing City]

Originally Posted by whatnext

So you don’t know either.

One would think a former planner would be more concerned about the former homes in the two existing apartments have sat empty and out of the housing market for years.

I guess the city doesn’t get its $55million and those buyers dumb enough to put down a deposit don’t get their promised Porsche.

Sure I know who Brivia are. Sorry you don't know how to do a google search - it's really not that difficult.

How long do you think the apartments were vacant? It looks like there were tenants living there a year ago. The security fencing went up more recently. Once ownership is sorted out, assuming the new owner of the site doesn't want to build Curv 2.0 (which seems unlikely), it appears they'll either have to do a quick reno and lease the buildings again, or pay a hefty vacant home tax (both City and provincial) until they're in a position to redevelop. (That money accumulates to build social housing).

No, the City won't get a CAC now until a new project comes along. I assume you're delighted - no Chinese-named developer making money, and no additional wealthy residents in that part of the West End.

[jollyburger]

Well they've done a project with a Chinese real estate firm in Montreal

https://renx.ca/bullish-brivia-launc...condo-projects

The founder is a refugee from Cambodia and got started in textiles.

https://www.parvisinvest.com/insight...in-real-estate

[Changing City]

Originally Posted by jollyburger

Well they've done a project with a Chinese real estate firm in Montreal

https://renx.ca/bullish-brivia-launc...condo-projects

The founder is a refugee from Cambodia and got started in textiles.

https://www.parvisinvest.com/insight...in-real-estate

Indeed, and they've recently completed a Phase 1 61 storey condo tower called 1 Square Phillips in Montreal with 498 units, and 20 floors of 'high end rentals'. - The company noted that: "sales for Phase 2 of 1 Square Phillips – a 21-storey building with 324 condo units – have been slower “but we have achieved quite substantial sales because of our network (of brokers) in Vancouver,” [RENX].

Apparently that's where our investors went "Although the Montreal condo market is slow, prices are much lower, which has attracted Vancouver investors to the Quebec metropolis. “The traction that we gain in Vancouver through the network helps us achieve quite a lot of sales.”

Kou said the Vancouver-based investors plan to rent out the units." There's no foreign buyers tax in Quebec.

[whatnext]

Originally Posted by Changing City

Indeed, and they've recently completed a Phase 1 61 storey condo tower called 1 Square Phillips in Montreal with 498 units, and 20 floors of 'high end rentals'. - The company noted that: "sales for Phase 2 of 1 Square Phillips – a 21-storey building with 324 condo units – have been slower “but we have achieved quite substantial sales because of our network (of brokers) in Vancouver,” [RENX].

Apparently that's where our investors went "Although the Montreal condo market is slow, prices are much lower, which has attracted Vancouver investors to the Quebec metropolis. “The traction that we gain in Vancouver through the network helps us achieve quite a lot of sales.”

Kou said the Vancouver-based investors plan to rent out the units." There's no foreign buyers tax in Quebec.

Great! If foreign buyers to do for affordability in Montreal what they did for affordability in Vancouver we might actually see some serious Federal government action, since they only pay attention to what happen Quebec or Ontario.

[Changing City]

Originally Posted by whatnext

Great! If foreign buyers to do for affordability in Montreal what they did for affordability in Vancouver we might actually see some serious Federal government action, since they only pay attention to what happen Quebec or Ontario.

That should more accurately read "there was no foreign buyers tax in Quebec", (although there has been in BC since 2016), which presumably contributed to the interest in buying investment condos in Brivia's Montreal tower, (as well as the much lower cost to buy), when it came to market a few years ago.

It's irrelevent these days as there's a federal ban on foreign purchase of residential real estate. But there's nothing stopping a Vancouver resident buying a condo that they intend to rent out in Montreal.

Even in Vancouver under 10% of condo owners in 2020 were to out-of-province or non-resident investors.