Amazon HQ2

[The ATX]

There are articles quoting people involved in various cities' bids that a short list of sites is expected from Amazon on December 1st. That's not too far away, and it will put an end to much of this city vs city and speculative nonsense. Here's a random article that happens to be about the Charlotte bid where the December 1st date is mentioned:

https://www.bizjournals.com/charlotte/ne...ip-remains-tight-lipped-about-sites.html

[Novacek]

Originally Posted by undergroundman

Have you heard of Syracuse University?

Sure have. My alma mater plays them every year.

They're an okay university. Pretty low on the technical side, though.



If your plan was: locate somewhere cheap/low population with a good university, there's about 200 schools higher on the list.


Including College Station.

[mumu]

Originally Posted by Novacek

Sure have. My alma mater plays them every year.

They're an okay university. Pretty low on the technical side, though.
...

Yes, not comparable to UT Austin. While these rankings are dubious, UTCS was just ranked 2nd in the world by US News.

[brando]

If we're talking about higher education...


In the City of Atlanta
Emory (15k Students)
Georgia Institute of Technology (27k Students)
Georgia St University (50k Students)
Morehouse School of Medicine
Atlanta Technical College (5k)
17 Others

The Metro Area has a lot of other campuses: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_colleges_and_universities_in_metropolitan_Atlanta


UT is a good school but both Emory and GIT can compete with quality of institution. Atlanta has a lot of other decent schools that are training a lot of kids who need jobs. The city is in a better position than Austin of supporting a digital campus like that.


People will move to Atlanta if the jobs are there. They have almost completely taken the film business out of Texas and Austin because of the tax breaks and friendly community. Now, no one is going to move to Austin to work in film/tv/video over Atlanta. Austin needs to get serious about things and understand that they can lose their tech momentum if they aren't careful and don't foster positive relationships and attitudes toward businesses.

btw, I'm not sure if the RFP was ever posted: https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/G/01/Anything/test/images/usa/RFP_3._V516043504_.pdf
Some highlights:

Priority for Consideration (in no particular order):
Amazon will consider the following site/building categories for the Project:
1. Existing buildings of at least 500,000+ sq. ft., meeting the core requirements described above and that are expandable or have additional options for development nearby.
2. A greenfield site of approximately 100 acres certified or pad ready, with utility infrastructure in place. The sites do not have to be contiguous, but should be in proximity to each other to foster a sense of place and be pedestrian-friendly.
3. Other infill, existing buildings, including opportunities for renovation/redevelopment and greenfield sites, meeting the proximity and logistics requirements of the Project. This can also be a combination of the above.
4. Please also consider the overall proximity of the buildings at full build-out as you are making recommendations.

KEY PREFERENCES AND DECISION DRIVERS
The below are our preferences and are not in a ranking order. We want to encourage you to think big and be creative as you are collaborating to respond. Please address the drivers discussed below in your RFP submittals.
Site/Building – As described herein, finding suitable buildings/sites is of paramount importance. Amazon HQ2 is a transformational Project, and we must ensure we have the best real estate options available whether this be a redevelopment opportunity, a partnership with the state, province, local government, or new buildings. All options are under consideration.
Capital and Operating Costs – A stable and business-friendly environment and tax structure will be high-priority considerations for the Project. Incentives offered by the state/province and local communities to offset initial capital outlay and ongoing operational costs will be significant factors in the decision-making process.
Incentives – Identify incentive programs available for the Project at the state/province and local levels. Outline the type of incentive (i.e. land, site preparation, tax credits/exemptions, relocation grants, workforce grants, utility incentives/grants, permitting, and fee reductions) and the amount. The initial cost and ongoing cost of doing business are critical decision drivers.
Labor Force – The Project includes significant employment requirements at the threshold compensation levels described herein and with corresponding educational attainment of the available workforce. The Project must be sufficiently close to a significant population center, such that it can fill the 50,000 estimated jobs that will be required over multiple years. A highly educated labor pool is critical and a strong university system is required.
Logistics – Personnel travel and logistics needs, both from population centers to the Project site, as well as between company facilities, are critically important. As such, travel time to a major highway corridor and arterial roadway capacity potential are key factors. The highway corridors must provide direct access to significant population centers with eligible employment pools. Travel time to an international airport with daily direct flights to Seattle, New York, San Francisco/Bay Area, and Washington, D.C. is also an important consideration.
Time to Operations – The Project requires an expeditious timetable for the location decision and the commencement of construction. Given this, sites with the requisite access, utility infrastructure, and zoning are critical. Please outline the permitting process and estimated timetable to initiate Phase I of our operations.
Cultural Community Fit – The Project requires a compatible cultural and community environment for its long-term success. This includes the presence and support of a diverse population, excellent institutions of higher education, local government structure and elected officials eager and willing to work with the company, among other attributes. A stable and consistent business climate is important to Amazon. Please demonstrate characteristics of this in your response. We encourage testimonials from other large companies.
Community/Quality of Life – The Project requires a significant number of employees. We want to invest in a community where our employees will enjoy living, recreational opportunities, educational opportunities, and an overall high quality of life. Tell us what is unique about your community.

This RFP is only an invitation for proposals, the substance of which may be memorialized in a binding, definitive agreement or agreements if any proposal is selected. Amazon may select one or more proposals and negotiate with the parties submitting such proposals before making an award decision, or it may select no proposals and enter into no agreement.

[jtown,man]

Originally Posted by paul78701

For example. One city that keeps being mentioned, Atlanta. I'm NEVER, EVER going to move there for a software job. Not for Amazon, not for any company. They aren't going to be able to pay me enough. I want to be someplace where I can easily go to the next cool opportunity working with the latest cutting edge stuff. Atlanta simply does not have that.

Not trying to be contentious, but what puts Atlanta in such a spot where you believe(I am assuming you are bringing up yourself in reference to how most people in your industry think)no one would voluntarily move to Atlanta?

[brando]

Originally Posted by jtown,man

Not trying to be contentious, but what puts Atlanta in such a spot where you believe(I am assuming you are bringing up yourself in reference to how most people in your industry think)no one would voluntarily move to Atlanta?

You're not being contentious at all. I think it's important to discuss these things. I think the Amazon bid process will do a good job at highlighting weaknesses in certain areas.


Atlanta is number #11 on the fastest growing cities list because people are moving there because the economy is growing. They have 16 Fortune 500 companies. That is a lot of jobs to fill but they keep growing. Austin has 0 but you could count Dell as a Fortune 500 level company that is private.

Austin might have a higher percentage of growth but more people moved to Atlanta last year than moved to Austin. It's usually ranked lower in growth because it's already highly populated.

It would also be less reliant than Austin on recruiting nationwide employees. The Atlanta metro has 3.5 million more people than Austin. That's a lot of qualified applicants especially given how many companies there are.

They also have a tremendous amount of university students to pull from including the Georgia Institute of Technology.

It's also on the same lists of Austin of places to live. It's just usually in the 8-15 range. That's not the same thing as being some random crappy place.

All the tech people that might hear Atlanta and think "ugh" are mirrors of all the film/animators who said the same thing a few years ago.

[MichaelB]

Just worked in Atlanta a few weeks. I've been going there for years. It is a mirror of Austin in many ways. But it killed it's vibe about 10 years ago , where Austin is just really hitting the risk of it now. Austin , as a city is easier to comprehend. It has an identity and still has a sense of "place". Atlanta has a lot of really nice and/or cool pockets, but they are very disconnected and it feels very transient. I had dinner with multiple people who have only lived there a few years and have yet to connect.
Mind you ..... I would with lots of folks who have been there a while and love it.
I could live there....if I had to. There is indeed a lot of cultural outlets and decent film industry.

Does that matter to Amazon? They seem to say it does. Seems like the folks to have to travel to the new HQ to run it want to be happy where they travel too. Urban setting, transpiration...Seems like thats the employee they want as well. Hell, If I ran that big of a company and had that choice to make... I'd damn sure make it.!

TO me.. that is easier to make happen in Austin much closer to the urban corp... like google... like Whole Foods.... work where you want to live. ( It's why I don't think any of the suburban pitches being made here make any sense.... they are, no matter what, suburban recently created places.... all the vibe is corporate, whitewashed and antiseptic......sorry , just an observation... it's lovely if that's what you want )

I also heard a lot of folks in Atlanta lamenting the thought of them ( Amazon) going there, the same way I've heard it here. It was a frequent topic. "But our cost of living is already so high ( relatively) what will happen when that many more folks are thrust on us".

So... yea Atlanta.... It would be a good place for Amazon.... different from Austin ... maybe a little more predictable of a choice? It is also closer to the east coast. We'll see... they may just be looking for smaller and less predictable. A larger fish in a smaller pond.

We'll see indeed.

[brando]

Originally Posted by MichaelB

Just worked in Atlanta a few weeks. I've been going there for years. It is a mirror of Austin in many ways. But it killed it's vibe about 10 years ago , where Austin is just really hitting the risk of it now. Austin , as a city is easier to comprehend. It has an identity and still has a sense of "place". Atlanta has a lot of really nice and/or cool pockets, but they are very disconnected and it feels very transient. I had dinner with multiple people who have only lived there a few years and have yet to connect.
Mind you ..... I would with lots of folks who have been there a while and love it.
I could live there....if I had to. There is indeed a lot of cultural outlets and decent film industry.

Does that matter to Amazon? They seem to say it does. Seems like the folks to have to travel to the new HQ to run it want to be happy where they travel too. Urban setting, transpiration...Seems like thats the employee they want as well. Hell, If I ran that big of a company and had that choice to make... I'd damn sure make it.!

TO me.. that is easier to make happen in Austin much closer to the urban corp... like google... like Whole Foods.... work where you want to live. ( It's why I don't think any of the suburban pitches being made here make any sense.... they are, no matter what, suburban recently created places.... all the vibe is corporate, whitewashed and antiseptic......sorry , just an observation... it's lovely if that's what you want )

I also heard a lot of folks in Atlanta lamenting the thought of them ( Amazon) going there, the same way I've heard it here. It was a frequent topic. "But our cost of living is already so high ( relatively) what will happen when that many more folks are thrust on us".

So... yea Atlanta.... It would be a good place for Amazon.... different from Austin ... maybe a little more predictable of a choice? It is also closer to the east coast. We'll see... they may just be looking for smaller and less predictable. A larger fish in a smaller pond.

We'll see indeed.

Great post. Thanks for the perspective.

[paul78701]

Originally Posted by jtown,man

Not trying to be contentious, but what puts Atlanta in such a spot where you believe(I am assuming you are bringing up yourself in reference to how most people in your industry think)no one would voluntarily move to Atlanta?

I don't see that as contentious. That's a fair question. It's pretty simple:

The density of top tech companies and software engineers in Atlanta simply doesn't match up with other tech cities. I wouldn't go there because of the lack of opportunity for software engineering roles in general, let alone interesting roles in startups and other great tech companies. Other companies are moving tech/engineering opportunities here in droves. That doesn't seem to be happening in Atlanta. In addition, there are more opportunities to mingle and share ideas here too. There's just a lot more tech community and groundswell here

As I mentioned, software engineers change jobs a lot. Companies now even *expect* that their engineers will leave at some point. So the above is *very* important. If my job goes south here in Austin, it's pretty easy to find something else that will pay well and be interesting. If the same thing happened in Atlanta, more than likely, it wouldn't be so easy.

As I've mentioned previously, big cities definitely have "tech workers" simply because of how big they are. There are plenty of companies that will need IT support staff in offices and whatnot. Yes, that counts as a "tech worker". But that is hardly the same as having plenty of up and coming tech startups and lots of engineers to fill the jobs that they need.

[jayden]

Originally Posted by paul78701

I don't see that as contentious. That's a fair question. It's pretty simple:

The density of top tech companies and software engineers in Atlanta simply doesn't match up with other tech cities. I wouldn't go there because of the lack of opportunity for software engineering roles in general, let alone interesting roles in startups and other great tech companies. Other companies are moving tech/engineering opportunities here in droves. That doesn't seem to be happening in Atlanta. In addition, there are more opportunities to mingle and share ideas here too. There's just a lot more tech community and groundswell here

As I mentioned, software engineers change jobs a lot. Companies now even *expect* that their engineers will leave at some point. So the above is *very* important. If my job goes south here in Austin, it's pretty easy to find something else that will pay well and be interesting. If the same thing happened in Atlanta, more than likely, it wouldn't be so easy.

As I've mentioned previously, big cities definitely have "tech workers" simply because of how big they are. There are plenty of companies that will need IT support staff in offices and whatnot. Yes, that counts as a "tech worker". But that is hardly the same as having plenty of up and coming tech startups and lots of engineers to fill the jobs that they need.

It seems that you're totally ignoring the fact that Atlanta has GA Tech which consistently ranks Top 10/5 in best engineering schools nationwide, as well as best quality output.

[paul78701]

Originally Posted by MichaelB

Just worked in Atlanta a few weeks. I've been going there for years. It is a mirror of Austin in many ways. But it killed it's vibe about 10 years ago , where Austin is just really hitting the risk of it now. Austin , as a city is easier to comprehend. It has an identity and still has a sense of "place". Atlanta has a lot of really nice and/or cool pockets, but they are very disconnected and it feels very transient. I had dinner with multiple people who have only lived there a few years and have yet to connect.
Mind you ..... I would with lots of folks who have been there a while and love it.
I could live there....if I had to. There is indeed a lot of cultural outlets and decent film industry.

Does that matter to Amazon? They seem to say it does. Seems like the folks to have to travel to the new HQ to run it want to be happy where they travel too. Urban setting, transpiration...Seems like thats the employee they want as well. Hell, If I ran that big of a company and had that choice to make... I'd damn sure make it.!

TO me.. that is easier to make happen in Austin much closer to the urban corp... like google... like Whole Foods.... work where you want to live. ( It's why I don't think any of the suburban pitches being made here make any sense.... they are, no matter what, suburban recently created places.... all the vibe is corporate, whitewashed and antiseptic......sorry , just an observation... it's lovely if that's what you want )

I also heard a lot of folks in Atlanta lamenting the thought of them ( Amazon) going there, the same way I've heard it here. It was a frequent topic. "But our cost of living is already so high ( relatively) what will happen when that many more folks are thrust on us".

So... yea Atlanta.... It would be a good place for Amazon.... different from Austin ... maybe a little more predictable of a choice? It is also closer to the east coast. We'll see... they may just be looking for smaller and less predictable. A larger fish in a smaller pond.

We'll see indeed.

This is a pretty good synopsis of Atlanta. At one point, for about a year, I traveled there quite frequently. I never really got a great sense of the city. It is very disjointed. Lots of sprawl. It didn't feel very urban to me. A lot of it felt like a half ass attempt at being urban (like the Buckhead neighborhood). It felt very in between. It's not necessarily their fault. Most of it's growth happened when cars became king and the idea of walkability took a back seat.

In Austin, if you're in/near downtown, it's now possible to live here without a car. In Atlanta, there's no way you could live there without a car. That seems antithetical to what Amazon wants.

Downtown Atlanta is like other big cities that grew up in the car age. There's nothing going on at night. People file out of the city after the work day. I don't recall much in the way of ground floor retail and whatnot that would draw people in afterword. Etc...

They have a rail line now, it's nice that it goes to the airport, but overall it isn't that great. I wouldn't say that it has that much of a leg up on any other city in that respect.

It's not the point I was arguing beforehand. But that's another mark against Atlanta in my mind. I simply wouldn't enjoy living there.

[paul78701]

Originally Posted by jayden

It seems that you're totally ignoring the fact that Atlanta has GA Tech which consistently ranks Top 10/5 in best engineering schools nationwide, as well as best quality output.

I'm not ignoring that. That's a plus in their column. But that doesn't change the fact that their tech scene doesn't match that of top tech cities.

Hey, I could end up being wrong about Amazon being interested in Atlanta. Maybe Amazon takes a chance on them. From where I'm sitting though, I simply don't see how it would be chosen.

[Novacek]

Originally Posted by brando

Atlanta is number #11 on the fastest growing cities list

Which list? They aren't even in the top 25

https://www.census.gov/content/dam/Census/newsroom/press-kits/2017/Top%2025%20Fastest%20Metros.pdf

They're #64 by all metros (percentage growth). They're not 11 even if you limit it to "large metros".

Originally Posted by brando

Austin might have a higher percentage of growth but more people moved to Atlanta last year than moved to Austin.

Barely. 54k vs. 40k. Domestic migration was even closer (36k vs. 33k).

Which is amazingly close considering the Atlanta metro is three times our size.

[brando]

Originally Posted by Novacek

Which list? They aren't even in the top 25

https://www.census.gov/content/dam/Census/newsroom/press-kits/2017/Top%2025%20Fastest%20Metros.pdf

They're #64 by all metros (percentage growth). They're not 11 even if you limit it to "large metros".

Barely. 54k vs. 40k. Domestic migration was even closer (36k vs. 33k).

Which is amazingly close considering the Atlanta metro is three times our size.

https://wallethub.com/edu/fastest-growing-cities/7010/#methodology


It was a list of larger areas that are growing as oppose to this which skews to smaller metro areas because it's percentage based.


The reason is matters is because as good as people think Austin is, more people still decided to move to Atlanta. I think the perception of Austin's growth is over-emphasized because of how relatively small it is. Atlanta is still growing faster. Measuring growth as a reflection of percentage of change is not a reflection of if people want to move to the city.

Originally Posted by jayden

It seems that you're totally ignoring the fact that Atlanta has GA Tech which consistently ranks Top 10/5 in best engineering schools nationwide, as well as best quality output.

This. It's also worth mentioning they are among the top cities in hiring new grads. People are moving there because work is there. https://www.linkedin.com/jobs/blog/grads-guide-to-landing-first-job

Originally Posted by paul78701

The density of top tech companies and software engineers in Atlanta simply doesn't match up with other tech cities.

That density rises considerable if Amazon moves there and it means they don't have as much competition for hiring especially with new grads.

Originally Posted by paul78701

I wouldn't go there because of the lack of opportunity for software engineering roles in general, let alone interesting roles in startups and other great tech companies.

But the point is if you would go there to work for Amazon if you were offered the job. That's the opportunity. Would you turn it down out of concern that you could be fired or quit and wouldn't have opportunity elsewhere in Atlanta? People will go to where the jobs are as long as it's a decently large city with a lot of stuff to do.

Also, the question isn't if someone would move form Austin to Atlanta. I can see why that would never happen. However, a lot of people would move from elsewhere in the US.

Originally Posted by paul78701

Other companies are moving tech/engineering opportunities here in droves. That doesn't seem to be happening in Atlanta. In addition, there are more opportunities to mingle and share ideas here too. There's just a lot more tech community and groundswell here

I'm not doubting you but what companies have moved here in droves in the last year? Many companies came because of incentives and then other smaller ones came because of the footprint those companies made. I mean, a lot of people don't realize that the current Amazon offices are at the Domain which exists because of incentives.

Amazon moving there would be a giant catalyst for more tech companies to follow if they wanted to. That's how you start growth. Again, I think you can make a lot of comparisons to the film industry.

Originally Posted by paul78701

As I mentioned, software engineers change jobs a lot. Companies now even *expect* that their engineers will leave at some point. So the above is *very* important. If my job goes south here in Austin, it's pretty easy to find something else that will pay well and be interesting. If the same thing happened in Atlanta, more than likely, it wouldn't be so easy.

Ah, gotcha. I understand your point here. I would imagine people might feel more secure with a company the size and with as much security as Amazon but I could easily be wrong.

Originally Posted by paul78701

As I've mentioned previously, big cities definitely have "tech workers" simply because of how big they are. There are plenty of companies that will need IT support staff in offices and whatnot. Yes, that counts as a "tech worker". But that is hardly the same as having plenty of up and coming tech startups and lots of engineers to fill the jobs that they need.

Again, Atlanta produces a lot of engineers as well. They have the tech school, Georgia St and the massive Georgia St.



Mainly, I think you might be underestimating the amount of tech companies and startups in Atlanta. http://atlantatechvillage.com/membership/current-villagers/

Also, an article about up and coming tech cities. Atlanta is number 3. https://www.forbes.com/sites/falonfatemi...me-tomorrows-tech-meccas/2/#653e30aa2c03

[Novacek]

Originally Posted by brando

Atlanta is still growing faster.

No it isn't. "Fast" is a measure of rate-of-change. By definition it's a percentage measure.

Originally Posted by brando

Measuring growth as a reflection of percentage of change is not a reflection of if people want to move to the city.

Neither is measuring natural increase, natural decrease, GDP Change, poverty rate change, or "Increase in Venture Capital Investment Amount". All of which were in this "ranking".

Originally Posted by brando

I'm not doubting you but what companies have moved here in droves in the last year?

Google, Facebook, and yes, Amazon.

Originally Posted by brando

I mean, a lot of people don't realize that the current Amazon offices are at the Domain which exists because of incentives.

The commercial Domain is there because of incentives. How does the sales tax exemption lead to an office building with no sales?

Also, it's the Simon Domain that has the agreement, I don't believe the Endeavor Domain does.

[clubtokyo]

Whenever I think of Atlanta corporate scene, all that comes to mind is Home Depot, CNN, and Cox Enterprises. What big technology companies have offices in Atlanta?

[masonh2479]

Originally Posted by clubtokyo

Whenever I think of Atlanta corporate scene, all that comes to mind is Home Depot, CNN, and Cox Enterprises. What big technology companies have offices in Atlanta?

Coca-Cola, Delta, and UPS are also big corporate players in Atlanta as well. As for big tech companies I have no clue. No name really rings a bell for having offices in Atlanta.

[paul78701]

Originally Posted by brando

https://wallethub.com/edu/fastest-growing-cities/7010/#methodology


It was a list of larger areas that are growing as oppose to this which skews to smaller metro areas because it's percentage based.


The reason is matters is because as good as people think Austin is, more people still decided to move to Atlanta. I think the perception of Austin's growth is over-emphasized because of how relatively small it is. Atlanta is still growing faster. Measuring growth as a reflection of percentage of change is not a reflection of if people want to move to the city.

These are among the largest metro areas in the country. They are all definitely going to have more capacity to grow and take on more.

I'm not sure how the above matters with respect to the industry we're talking about. What are the numbers which are specific to software engineers moving into these cities? I highly doubt that the list would be the same.

Originally Posted by brando

This. It's also worth mentioning they are among the top cities in hiring new grads. People are moving there because work is there. https://www.linkedin.com/jobs/blog/grads-guide-to-landing-first-job





That density rises considerable if Amazon moves there and it means they don't have as much competition for hiring especially with new grads.

Yes. Having top grads is a plus for Atlanta. But Amazon will need more than that. They will need to find already existing, experienced, engineering talent and bring in even more.

It's not like hiring a cashier. For the most part, a cashier is a cashier. It's not difficult to replace that skill set if need be. You can't say the same about top notch software engineers. These are jobs where the term "talent" is commonly used in much the same way it is used with regard to athletes. There is a wide range of talent. Some have talent, some don't. Experience matters.

My manager is currently running into this issue. Our company is based out of Dallas. He has been looking to grow our engineering team there. He hasn't been able to do it...and has lamented that it's difficult to get top software engineers to relocate there. His solution is now to simply hire in Austin and expand our presence here.

Originally Posted by brando

But the point is if you would go there to work for Amazon if you were offered the job. That's the opportunity. Would you turn it down out of concern that you could be fired or quit and wouldn't have opportunity elsewhere in Atlanta? People will go to where the jobs are as long as it's a decently large city with a lot of stuff to do.

I would not move to Atlanta for a job with Amazon or anyone else, no. Seattle, maybe. Atlanta, no.

It's simply because of the realities of my industry. It's so fast moving and constantly changing. You never know what is going to happen. For example, I've held 12 jobs in my 20 year career. That's higher than average, but it's not unheard of. There are many reasons for that.

There are jobs I took that weren't what I expected...or the manager was a dick...or I lost faith in the company...or I felt like I wasn't growing at the company any more. So I made a change. In an industry where you don't have to be stuck in a job you don't like...it's a luxury that many like me take advantage of.

There are also instances where the company went bust. Or decided to close the office I worked in. Or did general layoffs. Or a new manager decided to go in a "new direction" and just decided to clean house and fire everyone.

The above scenarios are common and have been experienced by most software engineers. It can be a blessing or a curse depending on your situation. Those realities above are why most top engineers want to be in a city like Austin, Seattle, the Bay Area.

Originally Posted by brando

Also, the question isn't if someone would move form Austin to Atlanta. I can see why that would never happen. However, a lot of people would move from elsewhere in the US.

Replace "a lot of people" with "top flight software engineers". The answer, for the most part, is going to be no. I doubt that most of them would move to Atlanta.

Originally Posted by brando

I'm not doubting you but what companies have moved here in droves in the last year? Many companies came because of incentives and then other smaller ones came because of the footprint those companies made. I mean, a lot of people don't realize that the current Amazon offices are at the Domain which exists because of incentives.

I don't follow all of the incentives deals. It's also difficult to really say how much incentives have really played. I don't have a list for which companies have been adding/moving talent here over the past year. It would be impossible for me to create. There are too many to keep track of. Some notable, recent examples off the top of my head:

Atlassian and others have set up their North American headquarters here. Facebook is expanding here, Google is expanding here, Amazon is already expanding here, Apple has been expanding here. Indeed, Main Street Hub, and many more have been growing fast and hiring like crazy along with many, many other local startups. GM, Visa, Home Depot have opened up tech offices here. Etc.. Etc.. Etc..

I doubt you'll find the same pedigree of tech companies and/or tech offices in Atlanta.

Originally Posted by brando

Amazon moving there would be a giant catalyst for more tech companies to follow if they wanted to. That's how you start growth. Again, I think you can make a lot of comparisons to the film industry.

It would be a catalyst, yes. But this is a different animal that the film industry. You're comparing apples and oranges.

Originally Posted by brando

Ah, gotcha. I understand your point here. I would imagine people might feel more secure with a company the size and with as much security as Amazon but I could easily be wrong.

Again, Atlanta produces a lot of engineers as well. They have the tech school, Georgia St and the massive Georgia St.

See my paragraphs above with respect to holding 12 positions in 20 years. No matter the size of the company, you can never feel completely secure.

Originally Posted by brando

Mainly, I think you might be underestimating the amount of tech companies and startups in Atlanta. http://atlantatechvillage.com/membership/current-villagers/

Also, an article about up and coming tech cities. Atlanta is number 3. https://www.forbes.com/sites/falonfatemi...me-tomorrows-tech-meccas/2/#653e30aa2c03

I might be underestimating Atlanta. I'm sure it's working on it's tech industry like just about every other city is. Anecdotally.. Over the past 20 years, I can only recall one instance in which a recruiter contacted me regarding a position in Atlanta. One. I get more contacts with regard to jobs in Chicago. (a city I like, but would not move to) Again, it's my own anecdote, but I expect you'll hear similar stories from other engineers. So that does not hold well for Atlanta in comparison to other tech cities.

[brando]

Originally Posted by clubtokyo

Whenever I think of Atlanta corporate scene, all that comes to mind is Home Depot, CNN, and Cox Enterprises. What big technology companies have offices in Atlanta?

In terms of corporate companies have have HQs in Atlanta:
FORTUNE 500 Companies
Rank Company Revenue ($mil)
23 The Home Depot $94,595
46 United Parcel Service (UPS) $60,906
64 The Coca-Cola Company $41,863
71 Delta Air Lines, Inc. $39,639
145 The Southern Company $19,896
180 Genuine Parts Company $15,340
242 First Data Corporation $11,584
303 SunTrust Banks, Inc. $9,161
331 Veritiv $8,327
353 PulteGroup, Inc. $7,669
364 HD Supply Holdings, Inc. $7,524
370 AGCO $7,411
409 NCR Corporation $6,543
410 Asbury Automotive Group, Inc. $6,528
437 Intercontinental Exchange $5,958

FORTUNE 1000 Companies
Rank Company Revenue ($mil)
562 Graphic Packaging Holding Co. $4,298
669 Global Payments Inc. $3,371
679 Acuity Brands, Inc. $3,291
692 Aaron's, Inc. $3,208
694 Carter's, Inc. $3,199
703 Equifax Inc. $3,145
712 BMC Stock Holdings, Inc. $3,094
969 BlueLinx Holdings Inc. $1,881
976 GMS Inc. $1,858
988 FleetCor Technologies, Inc. $1,832
990 Beazer Homes USA, Inc. $1,822

Again, those are just headquarters. These are not tech companies that have offices there. You are talking about a tremendous amount of talented people that can fill the bulk of Amazon jobs. The majority of jobs are not going to be engineers although they obviously still have to fill that quota. To reiterate, Austin has 1 company that could be considered fortune 500 (Dell) but it's private so it's not technically on the list. Whole Foods was on the list but it was crashing and burning which is why they were desperate to sell.


-Google has an office in Atlanta like they have an office in Austin.
-Facebook has an office in Atlanta like they have an office in Austin.
-Amazon has an office in Atlanta like they have an office in Austin. It's around the same size (300-400 employees) and it's also expanding
-GE Digital opened an office there
-Keysight Technologies opened an office there
-Accenture Midtown Atlanta innovation hub to bring 800 new jobs
-You get the point

They have the 4th largest tech startup hub in the country. There are probably 100 different ones on this list: http://atlantatechvillage.com/membership/current-villagers/


Technology firm Featurespace has picked midtown Atlanta for its North American headquarters.

A first-of-its-kind partnership: 10 major Atlanta-based companies have announced the creation of a new venture, part VC fund, part accelerator, in partnership with Mayor Kasim Reed, the Atlanta Committee for Progress (ACP), Georgia Tech’s ATDC and Tech Square Ventures. Each company will provide $1.5 million to launch the fund, called Engage, which plans to start its first cohort in spring of 2017. The participating companies are: AT&T, Chick-fil-A, Cox Enterprises, Delta Air Lines, Georgia-Pacific, Georgia Power Foundation, Inc., Intercontinental Exchange (ICE), Invesco Ltd., The Home Depot and UPS.

Atlanta’s fintech players include some big names and big employers —NCR with 3,250, First Data with 900 in the city and a total of 1,500 in the great Atlanta area, and InComm 650. KPMG has 1,142 including some experts in real-time payments, but fintech is probably only a fraction of their total head count.



Most of these are Metro Atlanta but couple other georgia companies might be mixed in.

Bluefin Payment Systems, Atlanta
Cybraics, Midtown
Dinova, Inc, Johns Creek
Elavon, Atlanta
ETI Software Solutions, Norcross
Foxtail Games, Athens
Gimme Vending, Atlanta
Global Payments, Sandy Springs
GoProcure, Duluth
Honeywell, Midtown
IDology, Atlanta
Ingenious Med, Atlanta (Cobb)
Ionic Security, Midtown
LaaSer, Buckhead
mLevel, Atlanta
Mobile Labs, Buckhead
Navicure, Duluth
NFANT Labs, Atlanta
Path-Tec, Columbus
Paymetric, Roswell
Pindrop, Atlanta
Purchasing Power, LLC, Atlanta
QASymphony, Buckhead
Rev.io, Buckhead
Rigor, Atlanta
Roadie, Buckhead
SalesLoft, Atlanta
Sequence Health, Dunwoody
Sharecare, Buckhead
SimpleC, LLC, Atlanta
SmartCommerce, Atlanta
Sovereign Systems, Norcross
Springbot, Midtown
SunTrust Banks, Inc., Atlanta
Synthio, Inc, Marietta
TalentQuest, Midtown
Terminus, Buckhead
UserIQ, Midtown
Videa, Atlanta


http://www.georgia.org/2017/04/28/atlantas-rise-top-leader-technology/
https://www.forbes.com/sites/tomgroenfel...versities-and-accelerators/#12386e608e26
https://www.bizjournals.com/atlanta/news...ware-firm-picks-midtown-atlanta-for.html
https://www.metroatlantachamber.com/asse...ay_to_the_americas_update_1__PgZoK8V.pdf
https://www.bizjournals.com/atlanta/news/2017/10/11/amazon-picks-atlanta-for-regional-tech-hub.html
http://www.ajc.com/business/accenture-mi...ing-800-new-jobs/Px6qOby4XOwKoHC2cyYqJP/


I know it might not seem like it but I don't work for the Atlanta Chamber of Commerce : )

My point of emphasis is that it's already a really good candidate for Amazon and then you look that the city and state are willing to offer 1 billion in tax incentives... come on. Austin is a better tech city but the distaste the council and state ledge have for corporate tax incentives right now does not make it a smart investment.

[the Genral]

I found this while lurking around Atlanta's Amazon H2Q thread. Its worth watching...for what it is. BTW, check out their thread, some of the posters are quite entertaining if a not civilized. Amazon converation begins at 2:55
https://youtu.be/8bl19RoR7lc