HomeDiagramsDatabaseMapsForum About
     

Go Back   SkyscraperPage Forum > Regional Sections > Canada


Reply

 
Thread Tools Display Modes
     
     
     
     
  #1  
Old Posted Sep 15, 2017, 9:26 PM
drew's Avatar
drew drew is online now
the first stamp is free
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Hippyville, Winnipeg
Posts: 8,732
I am obviously in the minority - but I think the Saddledome needs a refresh more than a replacement.

It's already in almost an ideal location, and it's an "iconic" building.

I went to a game there last year (one and only time in the building) and I thought it was really cool. I sat up in those crazy high nose bleed seats on the sides where you can't see the scoreboard.

IMO, it's only real major detraction is it's inability to host some major concert tours. Otherwise - reduce the capacity by losing or re-configuring those ridiculous seats I sat in. Modernize it, and keep it.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #2  
Old Posted Sep 19, 2017, 3:47 PM
J.OT13's Avatar
J.OT13 J.OT13 is offline
Moderator
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Ottawa
Posts: 27,573
Quote:
Originally Posted by drew View Post
I am obviously in the minority - but I think the Saddledome needs a refresh more than a replacement.

It's already in almost an ideal location, and it's an "iconic" building.
I agree that the building is iconic and that, if possible, they should at least keep the roof-line. If Seattle can do it with Key Arena, Calgary should be able to do it with the Saddledome.

Quote:
Originally Posted by wave46 View Post
Better to have a smaller rink that fills out more often than a big rink that struggles to sell out IMO.

I'd love to hit up a Jets game in Winnipeg. I've seen them in Arizona, but a home crowd is always more fun.
That's what the Sens will be betting on. A few weeks ago, Anselmi (President and CEO of the Ottawa Senators) mentioned that the new arena will likely have somewhere between 15,000 and 17,000 seats. Compare that to the Corel Centre's peak seating of 19,153 (20,500 with standing room).

MTS is hands down the best arena in terms of urban integration. Montreal might come in #2 after all the development that has been going on around it in the last 5 years. Worse offenders are Calgary and Ottawa, with a sea of parking lots.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #3  
Old Posted Sep 19, 2017, 7:28 PM
Hybrid247 Hybrid247 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 1,312
Quote:
Originally Posted by J.OT13 View Post
That's what the Sens will be betting on. A few weeks ago, Anselmi (President and CEO of the Ottawa Senators) mentioned that the new arena will likely have somewhere between 15,000 and 17,000 seats. Compare that to the Corel Centre's peak seating of 19,153 (20,500 with standing room).
I think it would be a mistake to make the new downtown arena any less than 17,000. I'm sure if it were downtown right now it wouldn't have any problems filling 18,000 seats. Kanata is really the biggest factor in the low attendance and low season ticket base.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #4  
Old Posted Sep 19, 2017, 7:34 PM
Acajack's Avatar
Acajack Acajack is offline
Gros Méchant Loup
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Province 2, Canadian Empire
Posts: 72,949
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hybrid247 View Post
I think it would be a mistake to make the new downtown arena any less than 17,000. I'm sure if it were downtown right now it wouldn't have any problems filling 18,000 seats. Kanata is really the biggest factor in the low attendance and low season ticket base.
I think that's quite right.

Ottawa is known in sports circles for being a big "walk-up" crowd city and being in Kanata the Senators have totally isolated themselves from that phenomenon.
__________________
Loin des yeux, loin du coeur.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #5  
Old Posted Sep 15, 2017, 9:28 PM
LeftCoaster's Avatar
LeftCoaster LeftCoaster is offline
Moderator
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Toroncouver
Posts: 13,044
The concert problem is huge though. Calgary is consistently passed up by major tours due to the acoustics of the Saddledome. I doubt spending hundreds of millions only to still have the same problem is really a viable option for ownership.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #6  
Old Posted Sep 15, 2017, 10:59 PM
Corndogger Corndogger is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Calgary
Posts: 7,727
Quote:
Originally Posted by LeftCoaster View Post
The concert problem is huge though. Calgary is consistently passed up by major tours due to the acoustics of the Saddledome. I doubt spending hundreds of millions only to still have the same problem is really a viable option for ownership.
The acoustics have nothing to do with it. It's the inability of the roof to handle the weight of the shows being put on. Apparently Garth Brooks is big enough to have his own setup to get around this problem and that's why he just did a shitload of concerts here. CSEC is losing out on a lot of money by not being able to host most major concerts now. The Saddledome might look cool but if it's not functional who cares how cool it looks.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #7  
Old Posted Sep 15, 2017, 11:36 PM
LeftCoaster's Avatar
LeftCoaster LeftCoaster is offline
Moderator
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Toroncouver
Posts: 13,044
Aquilini has been pretty good at renovating through the years so the stadium (at least the customer experience) is still quite strong. I doubt you'll see major renos beyond the bits and pieces any time soon.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Corndogger View Post
The acoustics have nothing to do with it. It's the inability of the roof to handle the weight of the shows being put on. Apparently Garth Brooks is big enough to have his own setup to get around this problem and that's why he just did a shitload of concerts here. CSEC is losing out on a lot of money by not being able to host most major concerts now. The Saddledome might look cool but if it's not functional who cares how cool it looks.
Huh, I always thought it was because of the shape of the roof, not the load limitations. Ya learn something new every day. Either way I doubt they would be able to structurally upgrade the roof enough to make it viable so the point stands.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #8  
Old Posted Sep 15, 2017, 11:43 PM
Corndogger Corndogger is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Calgary
Posts: 7,727
Quote:
Originally Posted by LeftCoaster View Post
Aquilini has been pretty good at renovating through the years so the stadium (at least the customer experience) is still quite strong. I doubt you'll see major renos beyond the bits and pieces any time soon.



Huh, I always thought it was because of the shape of the roof, not the load limitations. Ya learn something new every day. Either way I doubt they would be able to structurally upgrade the roof enough to make it viable so the point stands.
Concourses aren't wide enough either. By the time they replaced the roof, widened things, added more boxes, etc. it would probably be cheaper and faster to build new. Seattle's proposed reno to Key Arena is supposedly going to cost $660 million in real money so $600 million or so Canadian for a new arena doesn't sound that bad in comparison.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #9  
Old Posted Sep 16, 2017, 6:29 PM
JHikka's Avatar
JHikka JHikka is offline
ハルウララ
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Toronto
Posts: 12,853
Quote:
Originally Posted by Corndogger View Post
Seattle's proposed reno to Key Arena is supposedly going to cost $660 million in real money so $600 million or so Canadian for a new arena doesn't sound that bad in comparison.
A lot of the cost of the Key Arena reno comes down to the fact that they have to maintain the current roof and support trusses (it's a local historic landmark)

Quote:
The board, consisting of architects, historians, a structural engineer and representatives from the fields of urban planning, real estate and finance, granted the designation for both the arena’s Paul Thiry-designed roof and its exterior walls and support trusses.
Interestingly, they could be eligible for up to $70MUSD in federal tax credits if the roof is also deemed a Federal historical landmark.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #10  
Old Posted Sep 16, 2017, 3:15 AM
elly63 elly63 is offline
SUSPENDED
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 9,783
Calgary says it will pay for 1/3 of new arena
The Canadian Press TSN.ca September 15 2017

CALGARY — The Calgary Flames and their city are taking their negotiations public on a new NHL arena projected to cost $555 million.

The city proposed paying a one-third share of $185 million, with Calgary Sports and Entertainment paying another third and the remaining third paid for via a surcharge on tickets sold to events in the new building.

The Flames would get all revenues from the new arena, but the city wants CSEC to pay property tax on it.

"You'll notice that even in this model CSEC gets 100 per cent of the revenues and profits from the arena," Calgary Mayor Naheed Nenshi said Friday morning at City Hall.

"There is profit here. Our argument is the city needs to somehow share in the upside if we're going to share in the cost."

Flames president Ken King contends the city's proposal amounts to the team paying the entire cost, or more, because the team considers a ticket surcharge revenue that belongs to them and because they'd pay property tax.

"Their proposal has us not only paying for everything, but more when you consider incremental taxes," King said at a news conference at the 34-year-old Scotiabank Saddledome.

"They want a win-win. We think us paying 120 per cent of the project isn't exactly that.

"If we actually did this deal, it would be worse than what we have now. We've be better off to stay here."

He said the Flames would make financial details of their offer, and a blueprint for the building, public next week.

King announced Tuesday, on behalf of Flames owners Murray Edwards, Alvin Libin, Clayton Riddell, Allan Markin and Jeff McCaig, they were halting "spectacularly unproductive" talks with the city on a new arena.

Nenshi, who is running for a third term in the Oct. 16 civic election, had said a day earlier that the arena was part of a vision for a revitalized arts and entertainment district on the downtown's east side.

"Of course it's an election issue," King said.

"It became an election issue because it was indicated that on Monday morning we were an integral part of a vision that included an arena that had little to no chance of coming to fruition based on what they just showed you."

The Victoria Park proposal to build an arena just north of the Saddledome came after the $890-million CalgaryNext project pitched by the Flames two years ago.

That concept included a hockey arena, football stadium and fieldhouse on the west side of downtown.

CSEC also owns the Canadian Football League's Stampeders, the Western Hockey League's Hitmen and the National Lacrosse League's Roughnecks.

Flames owners offered $200 million of their money and proposed a $250-million loan be repaid through a ticket surcharge.

City council declared CalgaryNext would cost $1.8 billion when the cost of remediating creosote-soaked soil was included.

The city's most recent offer made public Friday said they would make a $130-million contribution that would not come from property tax, would donate the land worth $30 million and would pay $25 million for the demolition of the Saddledome.

Nenshi added the city would also pay indirect costs of over approximately $200 million to expand infrastructure and public transit to Victoria Park.

King countered those are costs the city would incur whether there is an arena there or not.

How much property tax the Flames would pay on a new building is up for negotiation.

"The Municipal Government Act actually has an exemption that the city can set its own rate for professional sports facilities," Nenshi explained.

"I would say in the range of $5 million a year would be reasonable, but that is something we were very much debating."

King reiterated the Flames are not moving to another city any time soon, while simultaneously pointing out they could.

"We want to ensure the public knows that the five men and their families who helped build this city, who employ tens of thousands of people, have provided hundreds of millions of dollars in philanthropy, and in spite of no good financial sense, have and will strive to keep professional and amateur sports as a beneficial and valuable part of our culture," he said.

"This is no money-grab. If it was, we'd be long gone. There's lots of places to make a lot of money in sports other than here."
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #11  
Old Posted Sep 16, 2017, 3:41 PM
O-tacular's Avatar
O-tacular O-tacular is online now
Fake News
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Calgary
Posts: 25,618
The list of demands just keeps getting more frivolous and insulting. Flames were also asking for free transit on game nights and for the city to cover cost of security. WTF!?! At this point they sound like hostage takers giving the police negotiators a list of ridiculous demands. "I want a helicopter! And I want a white limousine with hookers and Dom Perignon inside to pick me up!"

https://beta.theglobeandmail.com/new...service=mobile
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #12  
Old Posted Sep 16, 2017, 3:57 PM
WhipperSnapper's Avatar
WhipperSnapper WhipperSnapper is offline
I am the law!
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Toronto+
Posts: 22,855
"Their proposal has us not only paying for everything, but more when you consider incremental taxes

This is how things work for private businesses that develop real estate. You're not a public or not for profit institution. (and even those guys raise funds through donations than ask for hundreds of millions to build and operate buildings)

I really hope the municipal government does bend over to these guys.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #13  
Old Posted Sep 16, 2017, 6:22 PM
craner's Avatar
craner craner is offline
Go Tall or Go Home
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Calgary
Posts: 7,287
^ "does" or "does not" bend over ?
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #14  
Old Posted Sep 18, 2017, 5:05 PM
esquire's Avatar
esquire esquire is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Posts: 37,483
^ Frigging mind blowing. Winnipeg has a reputation as a pretty solid hockey market, but I could never imagine those things happening here.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #15  
Old Posted Sep 18, 2017, 5:36 PM
Nashe's Avatar
Nashe Nashe is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Moncton, NB
Posts: 2,980
Quote:
Originally Posted by esquire View Post
^ Frigging mind blowing. Winnipeg has a reputation as a pretty solid hockey market, but I could never imagine those things happening here.
It's like the Vatican of hockey. I'm not surprised.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #16  
Old Posted Sep 18, 2017, 5:46 PM
Acajack's Avatar
Acajack Acajack is offline
Gros Méchant Loup
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Province 2, Canadian Empire
Posts: 72,949
When they fired Michel Therrien and hired Claude Julien last Valentine's Day (you can't make this up), all three mainstream TV networks, SRC, TVA and V (equivalent to CBC, CTV and Global) interrupted their regular programming to carry the news conference live.
__________________
Loin des yeux, loin du coeur.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #17  
Old Posted Sep 18, 2017, 10:33 PM
Wpg_Guy's Avatar
Wpg_Guy Wpg_Guy is online now
Moderator
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Winnipeg, Manitoba
Posts: 6,416
The concourse upgrades at Bell MTS Place.

With the latest concourse upgrades, True North has invested $48 million into BellMTS Place since 2012.





















Reply With Quote
     
     
  #18  
Old Posted Sep 18, 2017, 10:52 PM
blueandgoldguy blueandgoldguy is online now
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 2,847
Looks good. I was almost fooled by some of the pics as I thought they were renders, not real images.

Keep in mind, about $40 million or slightly more of the money spent by True North over the past 6+ years (basically all of the monies involved in the renos) is from gambling revenue that True North receives from the government for gambling revenues from the Shark Club next door. Without those revenues, True North's investment in the MTS Centre since 2011 would be minimal...maybe a few million here or there.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #19  
Old Posted Sep 19, 2017, 4:13 PM
Oilkountry's Avatar
Oilkountry Oilkountry is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Posts: 1,868
Quote:
Originally Posted by blueandgoldguy View Post
Looks good. I was almost fooled by some of the pics as I thought they were renders, not real images.

Keep in mind, about $40 million or slightly more of the money spent by True North over the past 6+ years (basically all of the monies involved in the renos) is from gambling revenue that True North receives from the government for gambling revenues from the Shark Club next door. Without those revenues, True North's investment in the MTS Centre since 2011 would be minimal...maybe a few million here or there.
yeah so lets just pretend like they didn't happen then. Honestly what possesses you to bring this up every time any mention of MTS centre upgrades are brought into question? True North needed a plan for reinvestment into the MTS centre and they secured funding for it. Good on them
__________________
I don't want to hear your opinions on facts
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #20  
Old Posted Sep 20, 2017, 4:55 PM
O-tacular's Avatar
O-tacular O-tacular is online now
Fake News
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Calgary
Posts: 25,618
Behold the benevolent heroes aiming to rescue Calgarians from their plight of having to watch hockey games in a 34 year old arena!

Reply With Quote
     
     
This discussion thread continues

Use the page links to the lower-right to go to the next page for additional posts
 
 
Reply

Go Back   SkyscraperPage Forum > Regional Sections > Canada
Forum Jump



Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 3:59 AM.

     
SkyscraperPage.com - Privacy Statement - Top

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2026, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.