City of Hamilton General Discussion Thread

[LRTfan]

> "The escarpment is moving down toward London"


LOL

[ScreamingViking]

Originally Posted by LRTfan

> "The escarpment is moving down toward London"


LOL

Seems funny, but on the scale of geological time it's true.

Mapped out, the escarpment arcs across the Great Lakes region, some parts of it more prominent than others particularly in Ontario.


Source: wikiwiki

Think of it like the edge of a plate. The plate is made up of the rock layers Dr. Eyles talks about, which developed from the sediment of an ancient sea... the plate's base is buried deep beneath glacial deposits and clays and soils in southwestern Ontario and Michigan's lower peninsula but the weathered rim passes through our area.

Millions of years from now, after many more glacial periods, this feature may be worn down and maybe it will crop out much farther south and west in whatever becomes of Southern Ontario, depending on the erosion caused by future glaciers and water flows.

And the Hamilton city council and planning dept. of that day will have lost their chief reason for building height limits.

[StEC]

Originally Posted by ScreamingViking

And the Hamilton city council and planning dept. of that day will have lost their chief reason for building height limits.

LMAO you win the day!!!

[Chronamut]

What a lot of people don't realize is the escarpment is actually evidence of a much larger original lake. Lake iroquois, that spread from escarpment to escarpment. It was originally about 30 m higher than it is now.

When you look at the escarpment, it's kinda like looking at a bathtub that's been partially drained of water.

You can read up on it here:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glacial_Lake_Iroquois



You can even see how the shapes of the great lakes were determined by the direction of the melting and receding ice caps, which as they melted, water poured out from under them in such force it scooped out the great lakes from solid rock:



So yeah, building structures on the escarpment edge.. not such a great idea.. I'm still waiting for that hospital to slide down the escarpment one of these days..

[NortheastWind]

The escarpment is not evidence of Lake Iroquois. The escarpment is a much older than the former Lake Iroquois. However when the St Lawrence was blocked by ice, the lake drained through other outlets, and formed many of the ravines and valleys that we see along the escarpment today.

[Chronamut]

Originally Posted by NortheastWind

The escarpment is not evidence of Lake Iroquois. The escarpment is a much older than the former Lake Iroquois. However when the St Lawrence was blocked by ice, the lake drained through other outlets, and formed many of the ravines and valleys that we see along the escarpment today.

Yes and when the st lawrence deposit was unblocked it caused much of the dammed up water to be released which drained the lake down to lower levels. In hamilton however it does appear that lake iroquois went up to the escarpment edge if you compare the map to where the escarpment actually is in hamilton.

One also has to keep in mind the escarpment looks somewhat different today - with areas having being dynamited to allow the highway cuts up and along it. It would have naturally sloped down from much erosion over the years. I'm not certain it went all the way up to the top of the escarpment area but it def. would have been much higher with a gradually sloping down surface.

Here's a cool article about where the shorelines of it was in toronto. It also mentions this:

"At Toronto, Iroquois' waters lapped the base of the hill north of Davenport Road. Everything south - the entire downtown that is - was once at the bottom of the lake. According to Natural Resources Canada, the water would have been deep enough to half-submerge the Royal York Hotel. Spadina Avenue and Road would later get their corrupted Ojibwa name - ishpadinaa meaning "a high hill or sudden rise in the land" - so called for the escarpment left behind by Iroquois. Casa Loma owes its expansive views to the same feature."

https://www.blogto.com/city/2012/07/...ne_in_toronto/

I think we can all agree though it was due to glacial retreat that the escarpment features were formed.

[Chronamut]

Found this old city of hamilton map - looks like it's from 1859.. so pretty close to the beginning of the citys history.



compared to now (I tried to get the view as exact to the perspective of the old map as I could, and covering roughly the same area from end to end (I couldn't get the perspective low enough in google maps though unfortunately - crtrl + mousewheel or ctrl + or ctrl - to zoom the screen out enough to compare both pics properly):

[King&James]

https://www.livabl.com/2018/12/3-can...rice-boom.html

3 Canadian cities with the fundamentals for a 2019 home price boom - LIVABL

[matt602]

Pretty cool how easily you can see James, Hughson and John running vertically along the skyline in both photos, 150+ years apart.

[King&James]

Originally Posted by matt602

Pretty cool how easily you can see James, Hughson and John running vertically along the skyline in both photos, 150+ years apart.

Great complex to explore and so cool that it can be pulled out of the photo:

[Chronamut]

what I find the freakiest is seeing all the land that exists now that didn't exist then - we filled in a LOT of land by the water.

Also I believe those 4 rowhouses at the front of the picture still exist. I think that's herkimer st..

You can also see the central public building, which exists today behind city hall, in that picture.. it looks like it has a big long wall behind the property in that pic.

[ScreamingViking]

Originally Posted by Chronamut

Here's a cool article about where the shorelines of it was in toronto. It also mentions this:

"At Toronto, Iroquois' waters lapped the base of the hill north of Davenport Road. Everything south - the entire downtown that is - was once at the bottom of the lake. According to Natural Resources Canada, the water would have been deep enough to half-submerge the Royal York Hotel. Spadina Avenue and Road would later get their corrupted Ojibwa name - ishpadinaa meaning "a high hill or sudden rise in the land" - so called for the escarpment left behind by Iroquois. Casa Loma owes its expansive views to the same feature."

https://www.blogto.com/city/2012/07/...ne_in_toronto/

That's not the same escarpment. The Niagara Escarpment has nothing to do with the shoreline of Lake Iroquois, though the lower city's topography does reflect that lake's influence.

[Chronamut]

Originally Posted by ScreamingViking

That's not the same escarpment. The Niagara Escarpment has nothing to do with the shoreline of Lake Iroquois, though the lower city's topography does reflect that lake's influence.

Eh true enough. It seems the escarpment is more the eroded remains around the ancient seabed- the michigan basin, than the ancient lake, as the shale was eroded away just leaving the dolomite rock jutting up in the air. This goes into more detail about how the escarpment formed:

http://www.giantsrib.ca/formation-of-the-escarpment/

Also some interesting info on lake iroquois, glacial melt, glacial till and “moraines” and “drumlins”.

http://www.giantsrib.ca/shaping-the-escarpment/

When the glacier covered much of our northern province this is how high the glacier would have covered:

[LRTfan]

fantastic piece here on one of our members, the Hamilton Forward founder...well done!

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/hamil...lmes-1.4969841

[King&James]

Originally Posted by LRTfan

fantastic piece here on one of our members, the Hamilton Forward founder...well done!

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/hamil...lmes-1.4969841

very cool., kudos Lachlan bring Hamilton Forward!

[ScreamingViking]

Originally Posted by LRTfan

fantastic piece here on one of our members, the Hamilton Forward founder...well done!

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/hamil...lmes-1.4969841

That's really great.
(and I now feel a tad older )

I can envision the name Lachlan Holmes being on a ballot some day.

[Chronamut]

Originally Posted by ScreamingViking

That's really great.
(and I now feel a tad older )

I can envision the name Lachlan Holmes being on a ballot some day.

"I would hope that there is something Hamilton can look at, to be proud of, to say 'That is Hamilton.'"

I do agree with this - toronto has the skydome and the cn tower - thats its "core" - we need something for hamilton to be known for - but I disagree that it should a high rise.

A city shouldn't be known for say, a condo that's higher than the rest - that's kinda all that hamilton already has going for it. It should be something, imo, unique to hamilton. Currently what hamiltons landmark appears to be is the gore park fountain.

Personally I'd love to see buildings of more shapes and rounded edges instead of just the standard steel and glass rectangular slab growing out of the ground. People don't come to a city to see those buildings - they come to see heritage and buildings that are super innovative looking imo. The skydome and the cn tower are 2 great examples in toronto.

Now saying that I am not against high rises, but I am against every building being above 30 stories - I believe a city should have a good staggering of tall and short buildings, with the tallest being in the core of the city and petering off in height as it sprawls out, like a giant spike, done smartly so that you don't end up with a city cast in permanent shadow with cold windy street tunnels and buildings that block the views that such high rises are meant to give - aka not building basically a subdivision of skyscrapers where each ones view is blocked by the next ones.

[Berklon]

Originally Posted by Chronamut

A city shouldn't be known for say, a condo that's higher than the rest - that's kinda all that hamilton already has going for it. It should be something, imo, unique to hamilton. Currently what hamiltons landmark appears to be is the gore park fountain.

Unfortunately, if you ask anyone outside of Hamilton - they gore park fountain isn't something they would point out to identify the city, nor would they even know of it's existence. Even Hamiltonians wouldn't use it as something to identify the city.

Sadly, the smoke stacks of Dofasco/Stelco are this cities main identifiers - simply because of the view from the Skyway bridge.

But I agree, a condo shouldn't be a landmark to identify a city just because of its height. However, the Marilyn Monroe condos seem to be Mississauga's landmark.

[Chronamut]

Originally Posted by Berklon

Unfortunately, if you ask anyone outside of Hamilton - they gore park fountain isn't something they would point out to identify the city, nor would they even know of it's existence. Even Hamiltonians wouldn't use it as something to identify the city.

Sadly, the smoke stacks of Dofasco/Stelco are this cities main identifiers - simply because of the view from the Skyway bridge.

But I agree, a condo shouldn't be a landmark to identify a city just because of its height. However, the Marilyn Monroe condos seem to be Mississauga's landmark.

True - However I was talking more what the city itself brands on media related to hamilton - it always involves the fountain.

And it's regrettable that the factories represent hamilton, but that IS what hamilton was built on - steel industry, and now that it's moving away from that it needs a new identity.

We won't see those factories disappear in our lifetime though. On the plus side the factories are not in the core so the core is free to become whatever it wants.

Also to be fair mississauga, unlike hamilton, isn't a true city. Hamilton and toronto are the only true cities in the golden horseshoe - the others are more suburb or bedroom cities or university cities that either the city of hamilton or toronto are slowly gobbling up into their GTA and GHA areas respectfully.

I wonder what hamilton could build that would truly make it iconic on a world scale like toronto - maybe something out in the water even - it would be cool to have some sort of landmark out there or even in the bay.

[Chronamut]

So I have a question for you guys.

Say you have someone from out of town come to stay with you. They ask you what there is to do in the city that's unique to the city. You offer to go for a drink. They say they don't drink. You offer to take them out to a restaurant downtown - you do this for a bit but they quickly bore of just eating and want to know where else they can go. They want to be entertained, but they don't want to, say, have to go hiking everywhere to see say waterfalls.

Where would you take that person in hamilton? Let's also assume they don't want to go to the outskirts of hamilton, they want to stay in the core or just generally in the city.

Personally, I'd take them down to the harbour, maybe see a car show, maybe go see some art it if was an art crawl, but really I'm generally at a loss. In the past 10 years like 5 bars have closed down in hamilton, I just don't really know where to go for actual entertainment. I could go to the movies but you can go to the movies anywhere. I bowl, but that's up on the escarpment. I find I crave some sort of unique form of entertainment.