O-Train Line 1/3 [ Stage 2 | East Extension | Blair to Trim] | U/C

[1overcosc]

Originally Posted by lrt's friend

The fact that we have now eliminated all stations between Place d'Orleans and Trim means that we are really minimizing intensification possibilities. We will continue to under-develop land that is adjacent to the line but with no connections. If the plan is to add stations later after the area is fully develops, that still limits what intensification does takes place. Adding rapid transit access after development is completed is an old approach and just perpetuates car oriented suburban design.

Those two stations are still in the plan, they're construction has just been deferred as the provincial government was unwilling to fund enough to make them happen now, I gather.

It's not a huge loss. The Shenkman station is extremely close to Place D'Orleans station, and Tenth Line station has nothing there, and will continue to have nothing there for quite some time.

[Richard Eade]

Originally Posted by Uhuniau

Yip. Not an easy spot to get to for those of us whose main interest are the proposed stations inside the Greenbelt.

Perhaps reading the full announcement would help you:

Stage 2 Light Rail Transit (LRT) Connectivity
Public Consultations

As part of the LRT Stage 2 project - which extends the O-Train Confederation Line east and west, and Trillium Line farther south - The City of Ottawa has undertaken a Stage 2 Station Connectivity Study to ensure that community connections are preserved and enhanced along the expanded O-Train system. The study outlines a series of mobility enhancements, including bicycle facilities, multi-use pathways and crosswalks.

We invite you to give us your feedback on the study at a series of public consultations being held from 7 to 9 p.m. at the following locations:

West Stations:

(Queensview, Pinecrest and Bayshore) - August 9, 2016 - All Saints Lutheran Church, 1061 Pinecrest Road

(Iris and Baseline) - August 10, 2016 - Algonquin College ACCE Building, 1385 Woodroffe Avenue, Room CA105, 1st floor

South Stations:

(Walkley, Greenboro and South Keys) - August 17, 2016 Jim Durrell Recreation Centre, 1265 Walkley Road

(Leitrim and Bowesville) - August 30, 2016 Rideauview Community Centre, 4310 Shoreline Drive

East Stations:

(Montreal Road, Jeanne d'Arc, Orléans Blvd., Place d'Orléans and Trim) August 29, 2016 - Bob MacQuarrie Recreation Complex, 1490 Youville Drive

The public consultation will include:

• Recommendations for connectivity planning and design based on existing City plans and context
• Moderated break-out sessions to get input from the community on these recommendations

Ward Councillors and representatives from the City will be available to discuss the project and answer questions.

Accessibility is an important consideration for the City of Ottawa. If you require special accommodation, please email your request to the contact below.

For more information, please email [email protected] or contact:

Marc Magierowicz, Planner
LRT Stage 2 Project Office
180 Elgin Street
Ottawa, ON K2P 2K3
[email protected]
tel: 613-580-2424 ext. 27820

And remember, this is for STAGE 2, so it doesn't deal with the stations currently being built as part of the first stage of LRT construction.

[Uhuniau]

Originally Posted by Richard Eade

Perhaps reading the full announcement would help you:


And remember, this is for STAGE 2, so it doesn't deal with the stations currently being built as part of the first stage of LRT construction.

Yes.

Including Montreal Road station and the imaginary Jasmine station reservation, which are being consulted about in Orleans.

What am I missing?

[orleans_man]

Uhuniau,

There are 3 different consultation. One for each line (East, West, South).

The consultation for the East line is at Bob. MacQuarrie, which is about 5 km east from Jasmine and 6 km west from Trim? Almost in the middle of the proposed East line and Bob MacQuarrie is on the Transitway?

Not sure what else the city could do to make it convenient?

[Uhuniau]

Originally Posted by orleans_man

Uhuniau,

There are 3 different consultation. One for each line (East, West, South).

The consultation for the East line is at Bob. MacQuarrie, which is about 5 km east from Jasmine and 6 km west from Trim? Almost in the middle of the proposed East line and Bob MacQuarrie is on the Transitway?

Not sure what else the city could do to make it convenient?

Have a session at the Gloucester branch library or the arena next door? The proposed eastern suburban sop won't just serve Orleans, or at least, it shouldn't, which is a message I'd like to deliver in person.

It is an enduring bafflement to me why the city has these extremely limited "consultation" sessions for major projects, usually one night only (if you can't make that one session, you're boned) and usually in crappy locations, like this one. It's OK for the Orleans end of things, not so great for us inside the Brown Belt, esp. with the massive disruption to the current transitway; it is simply not possible for many of us to get to that location, BY TRANSIT, in a reasonable amount of time, to allow a reasonable amount of time on site.

(I know; the crazy idea of going to a consultation about transit, using transit.)

Frig, throw up the same boards in the lobby of City Hall for a full week after the sessions out in the suburbs are over. Leave comments cards.

[MarkR]

Originally Posted by Uhuniau

Have a session at the Gloucester branch library or the arena next door? The proposed eastern suburban sop won't just serve Orleans, or at least, it shouldn't, which is a message I'd like to deliver in person.

It is an enduring bafflement to me why the city has these extremely limited "consultation" sessions for major projects, usually one night only (if you can't make that one session, you're boned) and usually in crappy locations, like this one. It's OK for the Orleans end of things, not so great for us inside the Brown Belt, esp. with the massive disruption to the current transitway; it is simply not possible for many of us to get to that location, BY TRANSIT, in a reasonable amount of time, to allow a reasonable amount of time on site.

(I know; the crazy idea of going to a consultation about transit, using transit.)

Frig, throw up the same boards in the lobby of City Hall for a full week after the sessions out in the suburbs are over. Leave comments cards.

This reminds me of a City Hall-based session I attended for the cancelled iteration of the LRT. Two things came out of that for me:

1) None of the proposals showed a link to the PoW Bridge. I asked one guy, and he (quietly) said they were told in no uncertain terms to not include any "possible future bridge connection" so as not to upset the STO gang.

2) Another guy, when asked about the tunnel option, stated unequivocally that Ottawa "does not have the population base for such a thing, and won't for at least twenty years".

And of course a tunnel got built. lol

[Capital Shaun]

Originally Posted by Uhuniau

Have a session at the Gloucester branch library or the arena next door? The proposed eastern suburban sop won't just serve Orleans, or at least, it shouldn't, which is a message I'd like to deliver in person.

It is an enduring bafflement to me why the city has these extremely limited "consultation" sessions for major projects, usually one night only (if you can't make that one session, you're boned) and usually in crappy locations, like this one. It's OK for the Orleans end of things, not so great for us inside the Brown Belt, esp. with the massive disruption to the current transitway; it is simply not possible for many of us to get to that location, BY TRANSIT, in a reasonable amount of time, to allow a reasonable amount of time on site.

(I know; the crazy idea of going to a consultation about transit, using transit.)

Frig, throw up the same boards in the lobby of City Hall for a full week after the sessions out in the suburbs are over. Leave comments cards.

I'd walk over to the session if it were held at the arena or library. But I'm not surprised that the neighbourhood that isn't getting a station right away (if ever) isn't being consulted. Our councilor Tim Tierney has been rather silent on the whole thing. So much for having someone on council looking out for their constituents.

[Uhuniau]

Originally Posted by Capital Shaun

I'd walk over to the session if it were held at the arena or library. But I'm not surprised that the neighbourhood that isn't getting a station right away (if ever) isn't being consulted. Our councilor Tim Tierney has been rather silent on the whole thing. So much for having someone on council looking out for their constituents.

It's an epidemic, then. Tierney, Fleury, Nussbaum...

[roger1818]

Reply from comment in "Trillium Line South LRT Extension (Stage 2)" thread.

Originally Posted by Richard Eade

Of course there is the other side of the coin as well: The City should be building an LRT station for Jasmine; where people actually want access to the train - but 'cheapness' is winning there too.

I was thinking about this issue. Does anyone know if the LRT will use the existing BRT overpass just east of Blair (it looks wide enough to be usable)? If so, it would put the LRT on the wrong side of the 174 at Jasmine. They could build a pedestrian bridge to the station or build a new LRT overpass a bit further east, but both of those options would add to the cost of the station. I'm not saying it wouldn't be worth the cost, but it is another factor that others may not have considered.

[Multi-modal]

Originally Posted by roger1818

Reply from comment in "Trillium Line South LRT Extension (Stage 2)" thread.



I was thinking about this issue. Does anyone know if the LRT will use the existing BRT overpass just east of Blair (it looks wide enough to be usable)? If so, it would put the LRT on the wrong side of the 174 at Jasmine. They could build a pedestrian bridge to the station or build a new LRT overpass a bit further east, but both of those options would add to the cost of the station. I'm not saying it wouldn't be worth the cost, but it is another factor that others may not have considered.

I think that BRT overpass is going to be used for buses right up until LRT operations, not 100% sure though. The City's "Rail Implementation Office" layer in GeoOttawa shows the LRT transitioning to the median at approximately the middle of the Gloucester high school property. Under this alignment a Jasmine Station would need a ped overpass to the median of the highway.

As far as I can tell they aren't protecting for a Jasmine station, because the plans for the highway and LRT alignment don't widen at any point to allow for a future station.

[J.OT13]

I didn't realize we could see the future lrt on geoOttawa. Thanks for the tip. Interesting thing; based on geoOttawa, it looks like they built the downtown station caverns long enough to eventually accommodate 150 meter long platforms. I kind of noticed going through Kontinuum, but this almost confirms it. If so, I congratulate the City for having the foresight.

As for the guideway past Blair, here are the "improvements" proposed by the City in March 2016.




http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/ottawa/cleary-station-lrt-ottawa-1.3506075

IMO, Jasmine Station serving a low-income, high density area, should be prioritized over Orleans Boulevard where we have a fairly low density and no possibility of future development.

[PHrenetic]

Good Day...

yup.... 'improved' alignment reuses much of the under/overpass structures in the present BRT transitway under and around Blair (to keep it -cheap-. What will not be reused is the eastbound overpass over the 174 - it will be replaced by a twin-rail flyover to put the rails from the north side at Blair into the center before Jasmine - hence the 'protection' for Jasmine station, even though, as noted, they are not providing the necessary width to 'protect' between the two sides of the 174. <snort>

[Uhuniau]

Originally Posted by Multi-modal

As far as I can tell they aren't protecting for a Jasmine station, because the plans for the highway and LRT alignment don't widen at any point to allow for a future station.

Precisely: a political decision has been made to bypass this community in the interest of building LRT out to the affluent home-owning suburbs as quickly and cheaply as possible.

It's transit-oriented classism.

[roger1818]

Originally Posted by Multi-modal

I think that BRT overpass is going to be used for buses right up until LRT operations, not 100% sure though.

How would they use the overpass once the transitway under Blair Rd is torn up? My guess is they would temporarily use the Blair Rd exit, having the buses run along the shoulder of the 174 until the exit lane is created, and have exiting traffic merge with the buses.

What will be done with the old overpass? Could it be turned into a MUP?

[PHrenetic]

Good Day...

AFAIK, The in/out from Blair will be exactly that - the on/off ramps of the interchange, maybe with some more bus priority traffic lights. As for the old eastbound bus transitway flyover, your guess is as good/bad as anybody else's, given the dearth of actual planning info or discussion. However, my estimation says it simply disappears.

[1overcosc]

They did confirm that the alignment revisions still protect for a Gloucester High School station in the future. Gloucester High School, Orleans Town Centre, and Tenth Line are the 3 stations that are being protected for in the future, but not being built as part of the initial line.

[lrt's friend]

Stations that don't get built as part of the original construction usually never get built. They never rise to the top of the priority list.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by PHrenetic

Good Day...

AFAIK, The in/out from Blair will be exactly that - the on/off ramps of the interchange, maybe with some more bus priority traffic lights. As for the old eastbound bus transitway flyover, your guess is as good/bad as anybody else's, given the dearth of actual planning info or discussion. However, my estimation says it simply disappears.

Is there any way that ramp could be repurposed into a new onramp for regular traffic going eastbound on the 174 from Blair?

[Multi-modal]

Originally Posted by 1overcosc

They did confirm that the alignment revisions still protect for a Gloucester High School station in the future. Gloucester High School, Orleans Town Centre, and Tenth Line are the 3 stations that are being protected for in the future, but not being built as part of the initial line.

That is crap. Where are they going to build Gloucester High School Station? Their current alignment on GeoOttawa shows the flyover starts at approximately the west property line of Gloucester High School, so a station would have to be adjacent to the west end of the Earl Armstrong Arena property (getting a bit too close to Blair Station IMO) or in the median adjacent to Jasmine Crescent.

Its comical if it wasn't so sad... Beacon Hill South and Jasmine Heights are getting awful LRT access and it will never be fixed. They get to take a bus to Blair or go to Montreal Road ("improved" station in the median of a highway interchange and therefore terrible walking / cycling access).

The people either don't take transit or aren't influential enough to engage in the process, and their councillor either doesn't understand the missed oppurtunity or doesn't care (i.e. his voters and community associations don't take transit). In this case Uhuniau is exactly right, its transit classism.

[lrt's friend]

Originally Posted by Multi-modal

That is crap. Where are they going to build Gloucester High School Station? Their current alignment on GeoOttawa shows the flyover starts at approximately the west property line of Gloucester High School, so a station would have to be adjacent to the west end of the Earl Armstrong Arena property (getting a bit too close to Blair Station IMO) or in the median adjacent to Jasmine Crescent.

Its comical if it wasn't so sad... Beacon Hill South and Jasmine Heights are getting awful LRT access and it will never be fixed. They get to take a bus to Blair or go to Montreal Road ("improved" station in the median of a highway interchange and therefore terrible walking / cycling access).

The people either don't take transit or aren't influential enough to engage in the process, and their councillor either doesn't understand the missed oppurtunity or doesn't care (i.e. his voters and community associations don't take transit). In this case Uhuniau is exactly right, its transit classism.

People of low income do not have enough political influence. The phantom station will be enough to get some of their votes. Then it will fade from memory and quietly be removed from the plan.