New Ottawa Civic Hospital [930 Carling Ave + 520 Preston St] | U/C

[acottawa]

Originally Posted by Uhuniau

There are HUGH hospitals in the middles of downtown Montreal, Toronto, Vancouver, Quebec City, Halifax, Boston, Manhattan.

Apparently Ottawa is the only city in North America where it is impossible to build a hospital in the core, or in an area with existing buildings and land-uses.

Yet again, people are determined to find every excuse, no matter how flimsy (and boy, some of those excuses are flimsy), for why something can't be done, instead of finding the relatively easy path forward where it can. The challenges, such as they are, of building a new hospital at a site like Tunney's, or hell, even building around the existing Carling Avenue campus, are miniscule compared to other major urban hospital projects in other places.

And they usually involve some sort of large scale property acquisition or expropriation and some sort of large-scale demolition. I have no objection to that, but in a city with so much vacant land (and local political tradition that the federal government is responsible for providing the site for hospitals) it is a little hard to justify a large-scale demolition process.

[IntoTheCore]

Originally Posted by McKellarDweller

Can anyone point me to more information about the "Booth St. Complex" - #12 on the map? Is that current building even close to being torn down for redevelopment?

From what I understand, that covers everything on either side of Booth St from Orangeville to Carling. Don't know where the existing NRCan stuff would go, but a number of the buildings on that site are no longer in use.

Big surprise, the hospital's CEO is on record as saying that the site is too small for the hospital's needs.

[IntoTheCore]

Originally Posted by rocketphish

Some of these "options" are so laughable I don't know why they're even included; 2, 3, 4, 5, 6 in particular.

3 and 4 are 3 km south of the Queensway Carleton. Why bother looking at them?

[Uhuniau]

Originally Posted by acottawa

And they usually involve some sort of large scale property acquisition or expropriation and some sort of large-scale demolition.

And?

I have no objection to that, but in a city with so much vacant land (and local political tradition that the federal government is responsible for providing the site for hospitals)

Well, maybe if the federal government hadn't expropriated so much land for no obviously good reason...

it is a little hard to justify a large-scale demolition process.

In the case of both Booth and Tunney's, there are buildings at or near the end of their existence.

Even in the case of the existing site, there is PLENTY of room to build new buildings to replace existing parts of the complex, move into the new building, demolish or restore the older portion, then move onto a new phase of the staged replacement. It's how they have done it in other cities; even, to some degree, how the current Civic took its current form.

[passwordisnt123]

Originally Posted by YOWetal

This will be a big concern of the hospital, but the decision will be made by the Feds specifically Joly and I would assume Mckenna.

What will the hospital say we are against this location as it is too convenient to transit.

No, of course they'd never say that out loud for the public to hear. I've worked in communications/public relations for most of my adult life. There are myriad ways you can go about killing something you don't like without ever having to state the true reason for your opposition.

"The Ottawa Hospital is deeply concerned about the service catchment area at Tunney's pasture. With no housing to the north of the site due to the Ottawa river and only low density housing across Scott street, the number of people who in the immediate vicinity of the hospital would decrease dramatically."

"The City of Ottawa is a rapidly growing urban destination for Canadians. The Ottawa Hospital is deeply concerned that the Tunney's Pasture site is an inappropriate location for the Civic Hospital due to the insufficient availability of nearby land for future expansion to accommodate our growing city."

"The Ottawa Hospital is deeply concerned about the process the NCC has launched to relocate the Civic Hospital. We have transmitted our concerns about the Tunney's Pasture location privately to the NCC and the NCC has shown an unwillingness to engage with the Ottawa Hospital to ensure that the health needs of Ottawans are met."

There you go. There's three arguments off the top of my head they could use to argue against Tunney's Pasture. They're all bullshit, of course. But they all sound plausible. Most importantly of all, they show how, in the span of 5 minutes, they should be able to come up with arguments against Tunney's Pasture without having to actually use the word "parking" publically even once.

[SkeggsEggs]

Originally Posted by Mikeed

This would be my candidate for a better location:



The opportunity for a 'discovery district' that could synergize with existing transit connections, and spread intensification opportunity down the Trillium Line and into Tunney's Pasture (private practices want to be close to hospitals).

It would be more expensive, but better for the actual city. Could be integrated into Bayview Station. Has good connection to the parkway which means faster (no lights) ambulance connection to the west end via Carling, the downtown core, Westboro, Hintonburg ect ect. It, along with development lands down the Otrain line could be an anchor for redevelopment and the centralization of out-patient clinics. And if need be it could be expanded to the Tom Brown Arena site (administrative or residences) or the park.

You'd also have some quite nice views and access to parkland for people actually in the hospital. Long term planning could integrate it into an STO transfer site across the old rail line and a interprovincial transit hub.

Who's to say you couldn't integrate an arena or community centre into say the podium of a hospital administrative complex. Let's think outside the box and build better.

There's also a massive plot of land just out of frame that is NCC parkland, but half the foot print could be a long term care centre/hospice with the other half parkland and good connections to the waterfront for you know, people who are in their last days.

Also it wouldn't destroy a significant portion of a Federal institution that has existed since 1880-something in a back room deal by a now defunct politician.

I like this idea back from post #70 on this thread. Has any group considered this site before?

[lrt's friend]

Why is it that we want to build a hospital in the urban part of the city but we want to build it as if we are doing it in the suburbs? Surface parking lots, and low rise buildings.

There is the other possibility of turning the Civic into a community hospital and moving all the high end care facilities such as the Heart Institute to the General campus, where there is still space to grow. After all, it is all the same hospital.

Waiting for everybody to blow their gaskets.

[daud]

Originally Posted by lrt's friend

Why is it that we want to build a hospital in the urban part of the city but we want to build it as if we are doing it in the suburbs? Surface parking lots, and low rise buildings.

There is the other possibility of turning the Civic into a community hospital and moving all the high end care facilities such as the Heart Institute to the General campus, where there is still space to grow. After all, it is all the same hospital.

Waiting for everybody to blow their gaskets.

Just stop it! you're making too much sense.

[zzptichka]

Originally Posted by SkeggsEggs

I like this idea back from post #70 on this thread. Has any group considered this site before?

This land is part of the Bayview CDP: http://ottawa.ca/sites/default/files...13_final-s.pdf

Also Trinity has already proposed plan for a couple of condo towers above Bayview station and I think Council already approved it.

[McC]

Originally Posted by zzptichka

Also Trinity has already proposed plan for a couple of condo towers above Bayview station and I think Council already approved it.

3-4 (rental) apartment buildings on a significant podium, called Trinity Station. Thread is here:
http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/show...71#post7533371 Project is not yet approved: http://ottwatch.ca/devapps/D02-02-16-0018

[McC]

Originally Posted by SkeggsEggs

I like this idea back from post #70 on this thread. Has any group considered this site before?

It would be better if people stopped trying to build over Laroche Park.

[SkeggsEggs]

Originally Posted by McC

It would be better if people stopped trying to build over Laroche Park.

Well I don't like the whole idea, I mainly like the main campus location.

[YOWflier]

I'm intrigued by the Booth street option. That, or Tunney's, or current site round out my 3 choices.

[Mugwumper]

Originally Posted by lrt's friend

Why is it that we want to build a hospital in the urban part of the city but we want to build it as if we are doing it in the suburbs? Surface parking lots, and low rise buildings.

There is the other possibility of turning the Civic into a community hospital and moving all the high end care facilities such as the Heart Institute to the General campus, where there is still space to grow. After all, it is all the same hospital.

Waiting for everybody to blow their gaskets.

I haven't seen renderings of low-rise buildings, and they've stated 8-10 stories is likely: http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/ottawa...ital-1.3481134

Ottawa Heart Institute has a state-of-the-art expansion currently under construction at the Civic campus, to be completed in the next couple of years. No point in relocating them.

Central Ottawa doesn't need another walk-in clinic or tiny blood lab. It needs a large urban hospital in a central location, like any other major city. The city has 100,000 more residents today than it had a decade ago. It's time to modernize that institutional relic from St. Elsewhere.

Why should people who live north of Carling have to go to the suburbs for an ER visit, or to go to a specialist clinic, or for a day surgery, etc.?

I'm totally in favour of building it on that parcel of land from the experimental Farm area. I love nature, but a large number of people are in need of medical care within a reasonable distance.

Why this isn't grasped by the Farm preservationists is beyond me... most of them live in the Burbs presumably. The Farm wasn't developed to be there for eternity, at that location. Ottawa's urban population has outgrown those corn fields. They can go and save a 200 year old country church in the Maritimes, if heritage floats their boat...

[1overcosc]

I firmly believe that it would be best to get rid of the Experimental Farm. The Experimental Farm is too close to the city and too valuable to be used as a corn field.

Much of the important research isn't even done in farm fields anymore. Case in point: Many of AAFC's experimental crops actually HAVE to be grown in indoor labs, because they contain experimental genetic modifications that can't be allowed to leak into the ecosystem until they're approved.

Agricultural research in the 21st century is about genetic engineering done in sealed indoor laboratories. Not large scale selective breeding on a farm. Time for AAFC to get on board.

The few functions remaining that really need to be on the land can easily be done in the Greenbelt.

Put the Hospital in the Northeast corner of the Greenbelt by Carling station. Sell off the rest for urban redevelopment. The land would be much more valuable to the city and its people as a new collection of urban neighbourhoods. Imagine: the inner city effectively extended to the corner of Merivale and Baseline.

[Marshsparrow]

Its so refreshing to travel to other world capitals and visit their central experimental farm - I am so happy that we preserve this piece of real estate that is so vital to the health of the nation

2050 and we'll still be talking about where to build the Civic.

[lrt's friend]

Originally Posted by 1overcosc

I firmly believe that it would be best to get rid of the Experimental Farm. The Experimental Farm is too close to the city and too valuable to be used as a corn field.

Much of the important research isn't even done in farm fields anymore. Case in point: Many of AAFC's experimental crops actually HAVE to be grown in indoor labs, because they contain experimental genetic modifications that can't be allowed to leak into the ecosystem until they're approved.

Agricultural research in the 21st century is about genetic engineering done in sealed indoor laboratories. Not large scale selective breeding on a farm. Time for AAFC to get on board.

The few functions remaining that really need to be on the land can easily be done in the Greenbelt.

Put the Hospital in the Northeast corner of the Greenbelt by Carling station. Sell off the rest for urban redevelopment. The land would be much more valuable to the city and its people as a new collection of urban neighbourhoods. Imagine: the inner city effectively extended to the corner of Merivale and Baseline.

Good Grief, destroy a major part of Ottawa history for another second rate neighbourhood. Absolutely not.

Maybe we should do likewise and demolish Old Fort Henry in Kingston and all the green space surrounding it for a similar use.

[lrt's friend]

Originally Posted by Mugwumper

I haven't seen renderings of low-rise buildings, and they've stated 8-10 stories is likely: http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/ottawa...ital-1.3481134

Ottawa Heart Institute has a state-of-the-art expansion currently under construction at the Civic campus, to be completed in the next couple of years. No point in relocating them.

Central Ottawa doesn't need another walk-in clinic or tiny blood lab. It needs a large urban hospital in a central location, like any other major city. The city has 100,000 more residents today than it had a decade ago. It's time to modernize that institutional relic from St. Elsewhere.

Why should people who live north of Carling have to go to the suburbs for an ER visit, or to go to a specialist clinic, or for a day surgery, etc.?

I'm totally in favour of building it on that parcel of land from the experimental Farm area. I love nature, but a large number of people are in need of medical care within a reasonable distance.

Why this isn't grasped by the Farm preservationists is beyond me... most of them live in the Burbs presumably. The Farm wasn't developed to be there for eternity, at that location. Ottawa's urban population has outgrown those corn fields. They can go and save a 200 year old country church in the Maritimes, if heritage floats their boat...

Did you read my post? I said a community hospital, not a clinic.

And I am not ashamed of being a farm preservationist. I work in Agriculture and my family's roots go back to the beginning of this city. The Central Experimental Farm is an important asset of this city that we should not trifle away. It is part of what makes Ottawa unique. Many other cities also have great green spaces. I can't imagine them being redeveloped.

Why does the Heart Institute have to be on Carling Avenue? Regardless of any current work, the whole point of this huge tract of land is to relocate the hospital including the Heart Institute.

[Buggys]

Originally Posted by rocketphish

NCC announces 12 potential sites for Ottawa Hospital's new Civic campus

Don Butler, Ottawa Citizen
Published on: September 12, 2016 | Last Updated: September 12, 2016 10:32 AM EDT

The National Capital Commission will review 12 potential sites for the new $2-billion Civic campus of The Ottawa Hospital, including four on contested Central Experimental Farm land, the agency announced Monday.

The potential sites include three on the Experimental Farm along Carling Avenue and another on farm land near Baseline and Merivale roads, as well as the existing site of the Civic campus.

The other sites that will be assessed include Tunney’s Pasture, Lincoln Fields, the federal government’s Booth Street complex, two sites on West Hunt Club Road near Highway 416, a site on Woodroffe Avenue near Hunt Club Road and the Merivale Road-Woodroffe Avenue corridor.

The NCC also released its draft section criteria, which fall into three broad categories: functional and operational, capital interests, and regional and local interests.

The functional and operational criteria will consider whether the size of the site supports the hospital’s needs, whether it is within the urban area close to amenities, and access to arterial roads and major highways, among other things.

Capital interests include compatibility with existing federal plans, impact on heritage sites and historic buildings and cost implications for the federal government related to land value, demolition and relocation of facilities.

Among the regional and local interests that will be considered are the site’s compatibility with the City of Ottawa’s plans and integration with transportation and public transit networks.

The NCC will brief elected officials and first nations leaders at the Canadian War Museum on Sept. 22, followed by an open house for the public at 3 p.m. and a question-and-answer session from 7 p.m. to 8:30 p.m. In addition, a two-week online consultation will begin on Sept. 22.

The results of the public and stakeholder feedback “will inform the recommendations” of the NCC’s six-member evaluation committee, chief executive Mark Kristmanson said.

The evaluation committee will finalize the selection criteria in early October and recommend the preferred site to the NCC’s board in November, Kristmanson said.

Leslie Maitland, a spokeswoman for a group that opposes the use of Experimental Farm land for the new hospital, said she was “very pleased” that the NCC was considering 12 potential sites rather than just the four put forward this spring by The Ottawa Hospital.

“It really is a fresh look at things,” she said.

She was also pleased that the NCC had “considerably beefed up” capital interests as one of the key selection criteria. Her group had feared that the interests of the hospital would receive the most weight.

While Maitland was disappointed that four sites on the Experimental Farm remain on this list, “I’m hoping the criteria will make it obvious that the Central Experimental Farm shouldn’t be considered at all.

“I’m optimistic that we’re still working towards a win-win scenario,” she said. “The next few weeks will be very important.”

Kristmanson said the NCC is on track to provide a site recommendation to the agency’s board by its next public meeting in November and a final recommendation to Heritage Minister Mélanie Joly by the end-of-November deadline.

dbutler@postmedia.com
twitter.com/ButlerDon


The dozen proposed sites released Monday:

1. Tunney’s Pasture – Scott Street
2. Lincoln Fields – Pinecrest Creek
3. West Hunt Club Road (north) – Highway 416
4. West Hunt Club Road (south) – Highway 416
5. Woodroffe Avenue – West Hunt Club Road
6. Merivale Road /Woodroffe Avenue corridor
7. Central Experimental Farm – Baseline Road – Merivale Road
8. Existing Ottawa Hospital – Civic Campus
9. Central Experimental Farm – Carling Avenue (west)
10. Central Experimental Farm – Carling Avenue (central)
11. Central Experimental Farm – Carling Avenue (east)
12. Booth Street complex

http://ottawacitizen.com/news/local-...unneys-pasture

Is # 11 the site of the former Carling building, or much bigger than the old building grounds?

[Buggys]

It

Originally Posted by acottawa

How many hospitals are built in the middle of office parks? Hospitals tend to like big, interconnected buildings, the parking lots are pretty irregular. A lot of demolition and relocation would be necessary to build something that resembles a hospital.

Toronto's University Health Network hospitals are scattered among office buildings and University of Toronto's downtown campus.