Saskatoon Roads & Infrastructure

[FarmerHaight]

I would like to point out that if construction is outside the scope of ten years, and we assume construction would take five years, Saskatoon, Warmen, and Martinsville may have double the current population by the time the freeway is built.

I for one appreciate that the city is conducting the studies now because proactive planning is always better than reactive adjustments.

I also know that civic/provincial/federal budgets are a zero-sum game, but building a freeway doesn't necessarily hamper the ability to also improve public transportation. In fact routing semis outside of the city may (hopefully) make traffic flow better inside of the city!

[The Bess]

Saskatoon Phase 1 summary, Phase 2 discussions starting soon.

https://saskatoonfreeway.org/phase-1/

[Crisis]

Originally Posted by djforsberg

This needs to be scrapped. Don't make the same mistake we did in Regina.

Are you referring to the project as a whole, or just to the preferred scenario for this portion of the project?

[Dengler Avenue]

Originally Posted by Crisis

Are you referring to the project as a whole, or just to the preferred scenario for this portion of the project?

@djforsberg most likely meant the whole thing. By the way, a thread for Ring Road 2.0 does exist.
I've voiced my opinion too.

[Dalreg]

You can have your opinion just like everyone else. I'm not 100% for this either but Saskatoon does need something to be done.

[Dengler Avenue]

Originally Posted by djforsberg

It would be a lot cheaper than $2B to fix Circle Dr North, stop urban sprawl, and invest in infrastructure to get vehicles OFF the roads. But no, our province is controlled by lobbyists such as the French company that built and now maintains the Regina Bypass.

Ha I’m of the same camp too. Grade-separate west circle drive, fly the freeway over the built up area from Airport Road to Highway 11 North, then build interchanges for 11 and 16 at Marcquis Drive, then call it a day.
Oh and replace 16 & 394 with an interchange too. Now we should be able to sign 100 kph all the way.

[Dalreg]

Originally Posted by djforsberg

It would be a lot cheaper than $2B to fix Circle Dr North, stop urban sprawl, and invest in infrastructure to get vehicles OFF the roads. But no, our province is controlled by lobbyists such as the French company that built and now maintains the Regina Bypass.

There is no infrastructure buildable to get vehicles OFF roads. Doesn't matter how many bike lanes, bus lanes, rail lines etc you build, the bottom line is people will use there vehicles.

You would not "fix" Circle Drive North for $2 Billion. No way are you going to go around, over or under to avoid that stretch for that amount of money.

[asdfgh]

Originally Posted by Dalreg

There is no infrastructure buildable to get vehicles OFF roads. Doesn't matter how many bike lanes, bus lanes, rail lines etc you build, the bottom line is people will use there vehicles.

That's just completely false. Yes, people will continue use vehicles, but not all people. Providing good, rapid transit can have a huge impact on how many people drive, same goes with having good cycling and pedestrian infrastructure, especially if the density of residential development is increase right around the transit infrastructure (which is the cities plan with their BRT corridors).

Right now our transit system is not good. It's gotten a bit better in the last few years (and as a result ridership increased significantly - i.e. by ~8% last year), but it's still not great. If it can do as well as it does as is, there is the potential that ridership will significantly increase once the BRT is in place..........and I'm sure it should be obvious, but if not, if/when this occurs, some of those new riders will be people that previously chose to drive.

[Dengler Avenue]

Originally Posted by djforsberg

I disagree. What we do know is when you build more roads, it increases traffic and not the other way around. We have to stop making it so convenient to drive our vehicles.

Key word: So convenient

You don’t want an extreme like Vancouver either.

[Crisis]

Originally Posted by djforsberg

I disagree. What we do know is when you build more roads, it increases traffic and not the other way around. We have to stop making it so convenient to drive our vehicles.

Do we really need to get into this whole social engineering debate again? A large chunk of the population of Saskatoon and surrounding area live here becuase they like the lifesyle. A big part of that lifestyle is the "vehicle centered" society if you want to call it that. They like their "big" houses and "big" yards, away from downtown and have no interest in taking public transit daily.

If most people currently living here wanted to live in a more urban environment, they would be living in Toronto, or Vancouver. Or even Calgary or Edmonton in some cases. Not to say that there isn't a segment of our population that want a more urbanized livestyle. Those people may be in the majority on this forum, but they certainly aren't the majority of Saskatoon area residents.

Getting back somewhat more on topic - there was a terrible mistake made when Circle Drive North was created as both a retail corridor and an integral part of both the Highway 11 and Highway 16 routes. As I see it, 1) the retail element has to be completely blown out of the area and the roadway upgraded or, 2) the roadway needs to be elevated with a minimum number of direct exits, while maintaining a secondary access network to the retail elements at current ground level. But I can't see either of those things happening at a price tag less than $2B.

[The Bess]

The Broadway bridge in Saskatoon was a make work project during the depression .... not to throw gas on the fire just saying.

[The Bess]

Correct me if I am wrong but i thought the provincial/federal governments didn't fund sporting event structures

[Ricopedra]

Originally Posted by Crisis

Do we really need to get into this whole social engineering debate again? A large chunk of the population of Saskatoon and surrounding area live here becuase they like the lifesyle. A big part of that lifestyle is the "vehicle centered" society if you want to call it that. They like their "big" houses and "big" yards, away from downtown and have no interest in taking public transit daily.

Crisis is right on the button here. I'm one of the biggest proponents of densification due to my experiences abroad and how it makes a better, safer, more exciting cityscape. I would rather not live in a suburb given the choice.

In Saskatoon you've got it good - probably the best in the world, outside of the weather.

But people live here because of the lifestyle they can live and afford, which is far better than in other areas of the world: Big houses, several cars per family; deserved, right? We deserve what we want, and we want to drive everywhere, everyone of us in a single car.

I mean, come on - we're in Saskatchewan. Do you think we're concerned about the environment? You're so funny! Have I met you before at a party?

No. So stop volunteering at my fundraising to save the Amazon Rain Forest.

[Ricopedra]

Originally Posted by djforsberg

We do things that are best for our community and our world.

This is exactly why you're not invited to my Save the Rainforest Gala. You can't see the forest for the trees. Cheers, and no harm done once you get my meaning.

[Ricopedra]

I'm saying we don't deserve what we want, just because we want it.

"We deserve what we want"... was not me saying it, or more importantly, believing it. Does that help?

[Ricopedra]

It's weird, though, and has been studied many times to the teets. You could make every major street in Saskatoon 4 lanes in both directions right now, and within ten years, they'd all be clogged to the gills. The desire of the individual driver is not in the best interest of the community, nor should it be supported. Saskatoon is probably the worst place in the world for me to think I can curtail greed and growth, but it's my hometown, so I've got no choice.

For the amount the city is paying for suburban expansion, they could create a core where no-one needs to drive, a core they used to have but dismantled, which included electric streetcars and buses - up until 20 years ago, or so...

Don't worry. I'm not talking about taking away your cars. But it would be so convenient you wouldn't need them for your daily commute. Now that's cool! You'd think Saskatoon would be up for that, but...now you get to the reality of what's going on in this town. Everybody wants.

[Dalreg]

Your dream utopia doesn't exist and won't exist in Saskatoon in your lifetime. The best you can hope is to move to somewhere like North Korea where car ownership is very low and public transport is the only option....

[Antigonish]

The city really dropped the ball not pushing for LRT vs BRT pretty much like London, ON.

The recent subdivisions built and being built here were done so short-sighted. When Brighton fills in, College and 8th are going to be mega fucked with congestion.

I'd also like to see a DDI on Taylor/Circle, seems like the only place they could pull it off using the existing space/infrastructure.

[Dalreg]

Originally Posted by djforsberg

People like to think we live in a free, democratic world, but really, its the developers and corporations (i.e. trucking, construction, retailers like Amazon and Walmart, etc) who dictate how our cities (and economy) grow. We live in a world where profits drive everything, while ignoring so many things that humans need that don't involve money, and marketing makes it seem like its what we want. People like to point to authoritarian countries as an example of how bad "socialist" centrally-planned economies fail while also failing to recognize the damage our capitalist centrally-planned, profit-motivated economy has on both the environment and on humans now and into the future. We need a true democracy and I bet if we had one, Regina and Saskatoon would not spend multiple-billions of dollars of our own money on this pavement that will benefit very few of us.

No you are right, they would probably spend $10's of Billions instead.

[Temperance]

Never let anyone tell you that a better urban environment is too expensive or impossible. It's all about prioritizing the collective good. Check out these streetscape differences between the Utrecht of 1982 and 2020 https://twitter.com/FouadUrbanist/st...906468865?s=19.

Yes, Saskatoon is a different context but we can build a beautiful and livable city if we set our priorities. Not every road needs to be a multilane thoroughfare, suburban development needs to be curtailed, and no, we should not be building roads through sensitive environmental areas.